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Breakfast with the GM - Sunday 3/6/11 10AM PST

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Old
03-06-2011, 07:09 PM
  #51
William H Bonney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Agree that none of the five are moving at all. I see the same thing, but I am not convinced that Kompon is coaching it exactly that way. The PP in the Vancouver series last year had much more movement, especially at the top with Johnson and Doughty walking the line. You really think Kompon told them not to do that anymore?
I don't know. This quote from Jack during last year's series doesn't scream Kompon to me..

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"I think we have a good swagger to our power play now, knowing that when we go out we're expecting to score," Johnson said. "Drew and I are trying not to ever do the same thing twice. Once you become predictable you get into trouble, especially in a seven-game series. And I think that's one of our strengths: we're not predictable. We're going to try to keep that going."
IIRC, didn't Murray also basically come out in the press during that series and claim responsibility for pairing Jack and Drew on the PP?

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Old
03-06-2011, 07:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post

As far as your evaluation of Smyth and Stoll, yeah it sucks. Your evaluation that is.
You don't think Jarret Stoll sucks on the PP?

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03-06-2011, 07:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You don't think Jarret Stoll sucks on the PP?
Stoll is more than adequate as a point man on the #2 unit. I would have Johnson and Doughty on the #1 unit.

Stoll has 4 PP goals, Doughty has 4, and Johnson has 3. Who else do you want to put out there on the point?

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03-06-2011, 07:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Stoll is more than adequate as a point man on the #2 unit. I would have Johnson and Doughty on the #1 unit.
Well we can agree on that.

Stoll, Smyth and Handzus have spent the majority of the season on the #1 PP and the Kings PP which ranks 20th in the NHL.

Maybe sucks is a bit harsh, sub-par might be better.

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03-06-2011, 07:19 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Well we can agree on that.

Stoll, Smyth and Handzus have spent the majority of the season on the #1 PP and the Kings PP which ranks 20th in the NHL.

Maybe sucks is a bit harsh, sub-par might be better.
Now that Penner has arrived, this will no longer be the case and Smyth in no way sucks in his role on the 1st PP.

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03-06-2011, 07:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Now that Penner has arrived, this will no longer be the case and Smyth in no way sucks in his role on the 1st PP.
Wouldn't you rather have Williams out there as opposed to Smyth?

I think the Kings PP system is terrible but the coaches don't help themselves with who they put out there.

How do you have Johnson and Williams on the bench in favor of Stoll and Handzus, it's just insane.

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03-06-2011, 07:29 PM
  #57
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My biggest grip with Stoll on the PP, is he seems to always be the one staring the rush...and his outlets seem to be in the players skates ~50% of the time....this killed atleast 2-3 rushes last nite.

Then next biggest grip with the PP, is when its any combination of Kopi/Smyth/Penner/Zues the opposing team just sits on the blueline and waits for the Kings to dump it in. Upon doing so, they know they can beat the Kings "chasers" because none of the forwards on the PP are what I would describe as "fast".

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03-06-2011, 07:48 PM
  #58
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JW and DD are the only ones on the PP that enter the zone with any speed. everyone else is on the slow train making it easy on the PK unit. skate up ice at least as a three man unit with speed, and the rest curl in after the break.

the other thing i've noticed that is causing constant problems is DD and JJ on their off hand side during the PP. passes to them keep missing the mark, so their point shot/pass is late and hurried. when they pass to each other between the points it's taking longer because for w/e reason they seem to favor their forehand. by doing this they turn their bodies to much and telegraph the pass, the PK is then up their ass instantly.

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03-06-2011, 07:48 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I agree with this to some degree, but do any of us really believe that Kompon tells Kopitar to stay glued to the half-wall on the PP? Do we also believe that he tells Kopitar to hold onto the puck for 2 or 3 seconds everytime he receives a pass on the half-wall?

I encourage folks to go back and watch the 5-on-3 PP from yesterday's game and see how long Kopitar holds onto the puck during that minute. He needs to make much quicker decisions and move more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Agree that none of the five are moving at all. I see the same thing, but I am not convinced that Kompon is coaching it exactly that way. The PP in the Vancouver series last year had much more movement, especially at the top with Johnson and Doughty walking the line. You really think Kompon told them not to do that anymore?

Kopitar has to be the most frustrating player to watch on the PP at this point. He is so predictable and slow in everything he does on the PP.
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
It's been happening all season. I would have thought by now that 60 games in they'd have drilled into the player's heads that they can't stand still.

The 5 on 3 is embarrassingly bad.
And 4 on 3 almost as bad as well. I believe the players are playing scared. Scared to lose possession and have to retrieve the puck from their own end. Scared of losing PP time on ice if they don't play the possession game. And what does it get them? The same thing they're afraid of anyway. I don't know if it's Kompon or Murray that instills this fear, but it's there and it definitely affects our PP.

When Kopitar holds on to the puck on the halfwall, he is presumably waiting for "lanes" to open up, right? Well, no lanes are going to open up when your teammates just stand still. There is no need to open a lane as the defenders are all in position to defend the non-existent movement.

So then he passes it down low only to receive it right back. Brilliant. Again, no need to defend differently. Pass to point, other point, back to first point and then back to Kopitar. Brilliant. Give the defenders a rest as well.

Yesterday really exposed the "playing scared" for me.

Another glaring weakness is the fear of making a cross ice pass through the slot as if the defense will automatically make a perfect interception every time. If I was watching film of the Kings PP I would tell my PK'ers "Just keep your sticks waving around the slot because it scares the Kings from making any kind of cross ice weakside pass".

Who am I kidding though, the Kings don't even create a weak side during PP's lol. On 4 on 4 PP's the D just plays a box which is perfect against the Kings and on 5 on 3 the D just pressures the puck knowing that we don't have a clue what to do with the 2 man advantage. Brilliant.

Don't even get me started about entering the O-zone on the PP.

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Old
03-06-2011, 11:45 PM
  #60
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I think "playing scared" is right on, they appear afraid to lose possession. To generate offense on the power play, you have to be able to manufacture scrambles and broken plays to get defenders out of position. The Kings just fundamentally do not do that. They don't have enough guys in front of the net, they don't move enough as a team to force the defenders to react, and this leads to very few shots getting through. The Kings' power play is like World War I: a war of position, not a war of movement. And that's damn tragic, because it doesn't make use of the open ice.

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03-07-2011, 12:06 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
At this point, I think Manchester has a better chance at a deep playoff run than the Kings. Leave both teams alone at this point.
I never understood this line of thinking.

Manchester exists to help the Kings win the cup.

Leaving players in Manchester who could help L.A., solely because Manchester can win a cup...

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03-07-2011, 12:09 AM
  #62
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Actually, I think that there's plenty of skill, but creativity seems to be discouraged.
Boom! I agree 100%.

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03-07-2011, 12:31 AM
  #63
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yesterday luongo was giving rebounds up the middle, at least 3-4 on the PP and we never adjust to having people in the middle, screening the goalie is great but when we are getting rebounds out of reach someone should make that adjustment......being the PP coach should include in game adjustments not just who is on the ice and I think we do poorly there

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03-07-2011, 11:01 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
I never understood this line of thinking.

Manchester exists to help the Kings win the cup.

Leaving players in Manchester who could help L.A., solely because Manchester can win a cup...
Manchester exists to develop the future of the organization. part of that development requires certain players to play heavy minutes in high pressure situations at a level they are best suited.

just an example but, there is a multi-fold benefit to a player like Oscar Moller to be conditioned physically and mentally to play top 6 minutes (you know, the 16-19 or so range) during the regular grind on thru the playoffs, than 8 or 9 minutes a night toiling on the third and fourth line with a rotating forward on the opposite side... and by the time the playoffs roll around, someone like Oscar, or even Loktionov aren't strong enough to be effective in that bottom six and the role required of those players... in the post-season, 4 lines get leaned on much more heavily at times, and during critical moments. which is why you also rarely if ever see players like Kevin Westgarth play.

and truth be told, there really isn't a single player in Manchester right now who can really help the Kings going forward this season. there isn't some super secret NHL-ready player with diamond hands that they are hiding down there.

and i also think you're highly underestimating what winning a championship can do for a player at ANY level.

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03-07-2011, 12:14 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
Manchester exists to develop the future of the organization.... and i also think you're highly underestimating what winning a championship can do for a player at ANY level.
Winning under pressure is the toughest habit to develop... better to let prospects develop it together and bring it to LA one at a time.

Some of us are not giving elite teams enough credit for their game experience and player development. These teams know how to deal with mistakes. How to keep squeezing an opponent until they break. It's not just systems and positioning and slash skating through the middle. It's executing a simple pass with touch and just the right amount of speed and lead under pressure. It's the brush check that slows a winger without getting called.

For the most part the Kings players are skilled enough. That's why they were so much fun to watch in Oct and Nov. They are just not tough enough yet. You learn that on the ice. Not on a blackboard.

That's really what Detroit and Vancouver showed the Kings this last two weeks. How to win under pressure.

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03-07-2011, 12:56 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Winning under pressure is the toughest habit to develop... better to let prospects develop it together and bring it to LA one at a time.

Some of us are not giving elite teams enough credit for their game experience and player development. These teams know how to deal with mistakes. How to keep squeezing an opponent until they break. It's not just systems and positioning and slash skating through the middle. It's executing a simple pass with touch and just the right amount of speed and lead under pressure. It's the brush check that slows a winger without getting called.

For the most part the Kings players are skilled enough. That's why they were so much fun to watch in Oct and Nov. They are just not tough enough yet. You learn that on the ice. Not on a blackboard.

That's really what Detroit and Vancouver showed the Kings this last two weeks. How to win under pressure.
IMO, the biggest difference between the Kings and RedWings/Canucks is those teams will attack the opposing defenders. The Kings main goal is to maintain possession of the puck, not score a goal. That's where the frustration starts. Kopitar could enter the zone in a 2 on 2 attack and he will stop up along the half wall to begin the cycle. The Sedins/Datsuyk/Zetterbergs of the world will undress defensemen causing them to back off meaning more space to make plays later in the game. When the Kings play everybody in Staples Center knows what's going to happen when they enter the zone. When you start seeing the opposition start jumping the cycle THAT is when the play needs to change. Fake the cycle and attack the center of the ice. Instead, we are just seeing the same play over and over regardless of whether it works or not. The coaches need to make in game adjustments, bottom line.

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03-07-2011, 01:05 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
IMO, the biggest difference between the Kings and RedWings/Canucks is those teams will attack the opposing defenders. The Kings main goal is to maintain possession of the puck, not score a goal. That's where the frustration starts. Kopitar could enter the zone in a 2 on 2 attack and he will stop up along the half wall to begin the cycle. The Sedins/Datsuyk/Zetterbergs of the world will undress defensemen causing them to back off meaning more space to make plays later in the game. When the Kings play everybody in Staples Center knows what's going to happen when they enter the zone. When you start seeing the opposition start jumping the cycle THAT is when the play needs to change. Fake the cycle and attack the center of the ice. Instead, we are just seeing the same play over and over regardless of whether it works or not. The coaches need to make in game adjustments, bottom line.
i can't tell you how many times i've stressed the next shift philosophy.

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03-07-2011, 02:02 PM
  #68
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The loss of Harpo has had an obvious effect on our D both on and off the PP in my opinion.

Kompon works for Murray and has proven that he can not only put together a working and effective PP but is also capable of adapting his system to meet and or exceed his opponent.

So it makes you wonder what has happened between this and last year that has turned us from an innovative and unpredictable PP unit that can be a handful to deal with and into a stale and way too predictable one.

I am critical of TM and have been since before he came to us and our PP looks allot like everything else that he puts his hands into in my opinion.

Our PP is like the rest of our teams game, it can be very effective at times and against certain teams but in my opinion it isn't going to win us the Stanley Cup let alone turn us into one of the top teams in the league.

But really who knows?

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03-07-2011, 02:19 PM
  #69
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Couple of things:

one, not many of us watch other teams 40 - 60 games a year to get bored with what they do "every shift and game" and see their favorite players repeat their favorite "toe drag" every game. It's not like there are special secret plays in hockey.

two, even the elite players you mention were young, inexperienced, and made mistakes - some of them still make mistakes but experience has reduced the number and impact.

three, like last year when the Kings were breaking in this defensive first scheme - you add options for players when the whole shift
on the ice is ready for it.... not just one or two guys. Otherwise you get a thousand and one breakaways and two on ones (Islanders ?
Oilers ? Anyone?). That's not the way to playoff success.

All things in good time, my friends. This team is being built the right way so that everyone in the room, every player, every line, every pairing, is exactly on the same page all the time. Then when someone starts a move everyone else is ready for the consequences, good or bad.

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03-07-2011, 02:27 PM
  #70
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I agree with you in many ways Duc. I am just not sold that TM is the guy to take us where we want to go or that his entire system is what we should be modeling ours after.

As for how we are being built I couldn't agree more and am spending time looking into that right now. I am ridiculously lucky to be able to spend my time doing so but if allot of the people who posted here had the time and ability to go out and watch our prospects in person competing against their peers they would be shocked at how exceptionally well positioned we are today.

There is no blueprint but there are a handful of examples of how to build a championship caliber team and organization and the words rush or panic aren't used in any of them as part of how they became the tops.

I think that DL has us on the right path but also understand why others don't. We are breaking entirely new ground as King fans and as such are learning as we go along in many ways. Using other teams as an example is never really going to give you an entirely accurate look at how to build a champion because the players and situations are going to always be different.

It isn't a bad place to start but we are well past start in my opinion.

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Old
03-07-2011, 03:45 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
Manchester exists to develop the future of the organization. part of that development requires certain players to play heavy minutes in high pressure situations at a level they are best suited.

just an example but, there is a multi-fold benefit to a player like Oscar Moller to be conditioned physically and mentally to play top 6 minutes (you know, the 16-19 or so range) during the regular grind on thru the playoffs, than 8 or 9 minutes a night toiling on the third and fourth line with a rotating forward on the opposite side... and by the time the playoffs roll around, someone like Oscar, or even Loktionov aren't strong enough to be effective in that bottom six and the role required of those players... in the post-season, 4 lines get leaned on much more heavily at times, and during critical moments. which is why you also rarely if ever see players like Kevin Westgarth play.

and truth be told, there really isn't a single player in Manchester right now who can really help the Kings going forward this season. there isn't some super secret NHL-ready player with diamond hands that they are hiding down there.

and i also think you're highly underestimating what winning a championship can do for a player at ANY level.
This goes back to last season, when Quick needed some rest, but everyone was too eager to keep Bernier in Manchester for their playoff failure. And we all know how Quick did down the stretch because Ersberg was not the answer.

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03-07-2011, 04:19 PM
  #72
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What was the chart he said people wouldn't like?

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03-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree with you in many ways Duc. I am just not sold that TM is the guy to take us where we want to go or that his entire system is what we should be modeling ours after....
Maybe... maybe not. He's been there, been close. And I'm not sure that he won't be adding more offense, more creative spark, to the mix as this team grows.... but I very much value your opinion. And I can certainly see that we may be missing something with TM as a coach. But I don't see it in our players. I don't see any complaint or hangdog that you see when players tune out a coach or a system. They all seem to be working hard for each other - including the coaches. There doesn't seem to be any whining (like calling out DL for a left wing last year, that was pretty funny).

I think a lot of it is raised expectations. These are good players. We expect them to play and execute like the top three or four teams in the league - to be able to adjust the structure to any game situation on the fly. They're just not there yet.


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03-07-2011, 04:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by FromChaos22 View Post
What was the chart he said people wouldn't like?
the one that resulted in the revealing that they were raising ticket prices.

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03-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  #75
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the one that resulted in the revealing that they were raising ticket prices.
It'd be a hoot if the renewal letters were tied to a player's salary we're helping to pay by renewing. If mine said "Kevin Westgarth" I'd cancel my seats with a clear conscience.


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