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Reshape this team as you see fit....

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Old
07-25-2005, 08:15 PM
  #51
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slangston_Hughes
I consider Bertuzzi a huge risk, for two reasons.

First of all, his suspension will be extended an additional 10-20 games, so any team looking to acquire him better be 'ok' without him on their opening day roster.
Until Bertuzzi is suspended an addition 10-20 games, it's purely a rumour. Nonis has said that he has heard nothing about any additional games and that it's all just speculation at this point.

Quote:
Secondly, no one knows how this Moore incident has effected him. When his suspension is lifted, I can't see him playing the same physical game. Vancouver fans will surely tell you, Bert's not as effective as a player if he isn't throwing bodies around and bowling over defensemen.
Agreed, it could go either way at this point. But, ask and Canucks fan, when Bert has something to prove, he's unstoppable. He was suspended for 10 games a few seasons ago and when he came back, he went on a role and had his best season ever. Bert's gonna want to prove to the league that he can still be a top threat, I don't think the whole Moore incident is going to affect his play too much, as long as he keeps his head in the game.

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Old
07-25-2005, 08:29 PM
  #52
Jame
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here's my shot...

1. I qualify Satan at ~3.9 million. This is his last year as a RFA. sure it's a lot but i bet you Satan will earn every penny playing for his first shot at free agency.

2. I put the C on Drury's chest, and end all this trade non sense. Regier has been planning for the new CBA for some time.

3. Player contracts

sign RFA's
Briere 3 years/7.5 mil (2.0/2.5/3)
Hecht 3 years/6.8 mil (1.8/2.2/2.8)
Dumont 2 years/4.5 mil (2/2.5)
Kalinin (has player option) 3 years/6.75 million (1.8/2.2/2.75)
Rookies
Vanek 3 years/3 mil (950,000/1 mil/1.5 million)
Gaustad 1 year 450,000
Miller 2 years/2 million (950,000/1.05 million)
Other
Zhitnik 3 years/10 million (2.5/3.5/4)
Rafalski 4 years/17 million backloaded(2/4/5.5/5.5)

Qualify
Pyatt (989,720)
Connoly (1,036,849)
Kotalik (837,900)
Tallinder (591,762)
Brown (585,200)
Bartovic (450,000)
Satan (3.99 mil)
Afinogenov (1,086,800) Trade
Biron (2.128 mil) Trade
Jillson (839,100) Trade

B]already signed[/B]
Roy (782,000)
Mair (450,000)
Drury (2.96 mil)
Noronen (665,000)
Mckee (1.862 mil)
Fitxpatrick (532,000)
Peters (450,000)

Don't Qualify
Boulton
Grier
Campbell

4. Trade Biron, Afinogenov, and Jillson to the Rangers for Karel Rachunek(salary?), Bryce Lampman, and a future 2nd

5. Lines

Hecht-Drury-Satan
Vanek-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Connolly-Kotalik
Pyatt-Gaustad-Mair

scratch- Peters-Batovic

Kalinin-Rafalksi
Zhitnik-Rachunek
Mckee-Tallinder

Scratch - Brown

Noronen-Miller

That's my 31 million dollar contender.

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Old
07-25-2005, 09:14 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
here's my shot...

4. Trade Biron, Afinogenov, and Jillson to the Rangers for Karel Rachunek(salary?), Bryce Lampman, and a future 2nd
the current issue of THN reported in the team notes section that rachunek has signed a binding contract to play in russia for the coming season and will not be playing the nhl

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Old
07-25-2005, 09:28 PM
  #54
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With the small penalties attached to taking RFAs, how would you feel about letting Satan go ($3.9M) and going after Hartnell for about $2-2.5M? (Bear in mind, I don't know what Hartnell is making these days, but if anyone is going to be more tightfisted than the Sabres, I'd bet it's the Preds.)

Hecht - Drury - Hartnell sounds like a nice line to me.

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07-25-2005, 09:33 PM
  #55
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no thanks

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Old
07-25-2005, 09:49 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signaliinoise
With the small penalties attached to taking RFAs, how would you feel about letting Satan go ($3.9M) and going after Hartnell for about $2-2.5M? (Bear in mind, I don't know what Hartnell is making these days, but if anyone is going to be more tightfisted than the Sabres, I'd bet it's the Preds.)

Hecht - Drury - Hartnell sounds like a nice line to me.
Hartnell?
Why Hartnell?

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Old
07-25-2005, 10:58 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
here's my shot...

1. I qualify Satan at ~3.9 million. This is his last year as a RFA. sure it's a lot but i bet you Satan will earn every penny playing for his first shot at free agency.

2. I put the C on Drury's chest, and end all this trade non sense. Regier has been planning for the new CBA for some time.

3. Player contracts

sign RFA's
Briere 3 years/7.5 mil (2.0/2.5/3)
Hecht 3 years/6.8 mil (1.8/2.2/2.8)
Dumont 2 years/4.5 mil (2/2.5)
Kalinin (has player option) 3 years/6.75 million (1.8/2.2/2.75)
Rookies
Vanek 3 years/3 mil (950,000/1 mil/1.5 million)
Gaustad 1 year 450,000
Miller 2 years/2 million (950,000/1.05 million)
Other
Zhitnik 3 years/10 million (2.5/3.5/4)
Rafalski 4 years/17 million backloaded(2/4/5.5/5.5)

Qualify
Pyatt (989,720)
Connoly (1,036,849)
Kotalik (837,900)
Tallinder (591,762)
Brown (585,200)
Bartovic (450,000)
Satan (3.99 mil)
Afinogenov (1,086,800) Trade
Biron (2.128 mil) Trade
Jillson (839,100) Trade

B]already signed[/B]
Roy (782,000)
Mair (450,000)
Drury (2.96 mil)
Noronen (665,000)
Mckee (1.862 mil)
Fitxpatrick (532,000)
Peters (450,000)

Don't Qualify
Boulton
Grier
Campbell

4. Trade Biron, Afinogenov, and Jillson to the Rangers for Karel Rachunek(salary?), Bryce Lampman, and a future 2nd

5. Lines

Hecht-Drury-Satan
Vanek-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Connolly-Kotalik
Pyatt-Gaustad-Mair

scratch- Peters-Batovic

Kalinin-Rafalksi
Zhitnik-Rachunek
Mckee-Tallinder

Scratch - Brown

Noronen-Miller

That's my 31 million dollar contender.
Thats a 5th-8th seed playoff team....unless Vanek scores 40 goals his rookie year IMHO. The defense is improved, but not by THAT much. No way McKee is playing 5th spot on this team. When he's on his game, he's a force, esp. when playing with a complementary defensemen.

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Old
07-25-2005, 11:26 PM
  #58
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[QUOTE=mdoak]With some news that
#1. Blake isn't going to be bought out and
#2. The realization that Forseberg is going to get the max wherever he ends up

I've decided to redo my 'plan'

Team Salary goal: 29-31 million

Already Signed (I'm stealing from other posts)

Roy (782,000)
Mair (450,000)
Drury (2.96 mil)
Noronen (665,000)
Mckee (1.862 mil)
Fitxpatrick (532,000)
Peters (450,000)
Vanek (not sure...900,000?)
Kalinin (1.3 million)

Total: 9.9 million

Resign RFAs:

Briere: 3 year, 7 million deal (2.0, 2.25, 2.75)
Dumont: 3 year, 6 million deal (1.75, 2, 2.25)
Hecht: 3 year, 6 million deal (1.75, 2, 2.25)
Afinogenov 3 year, 5 million deal (1.25, 1.5, 1.75)
Miller (2 year, 2 million deal+bonuses)

All should have good performance bonuses

Total for 2005: 7.75
Running total: 16.65

Just Qualify:

Pyatt (989,720)
Connoly (1,036,849)
Kotalik (837,900)
Tallinder (591,762)
Brown (585,200)
Jillson (839,100)

Total: 4.877
Running Total: 21.57

Let walk:
Satan
Grier
Campbell
Biron

Moves:

Sign Gonchar to a 3 year, 15 million deal (4/5/6)
(25.57)

Sign McCarty to a 2 year, 3 million deal (1.5/1.5)
(27.07)

Sign Zhitnik to a 4 year, 12 million deal (2.5/3.0/3.0/3.5)
(29.57)

New roster:

Hecht-Drury-Dumont
Roy-Briere-Afinogenov (holy speed line)
Vanek-Connolly-McCarty (Grit, skill....and Connolly)
Pyatt-Mair-Kotalik (energy/checking/occasional goal)

Extras: Peters, Gaustaud

Gonchar-Zhitnik
Kalinin-McKee
Tallinder-Brown
Fitzpatrick, Patrick, Janik

Noronen/Miller

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Old
07-26-2005, 05:41 AM
  #59
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There is no way we are signing both Gonchar AND Zhitnik.

And McCarty as a replacement for Satan

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Old
07-26-2005, 05:47 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
here's my shot...

1. I qualify Satan at ~3.9 million. This is his last year as a RFA. sure it's a lot but i bet you Satan will earn every penny playing for his first shot at free agency.

2. I put the C on Drury's chest, and end all this trade non sense. Regier has been planning for the new CBA for some time.

3. Player contracts

sign RFA's
Briere 3 years/7.5 mil (2.0/2.5/3)
Hecht 3 years/6.8 mil (1.8/2.2/2.8)
Dumont 2 years/4.5 mil (2/2.5)
Kalinin (has player option) 3 years/6.75 million (1.8/2.2/2.75)
Rookies
Vanek 3 years/3 mil (950,000/1 mil/1.5 million)
Gaustad 1 year 450,000
Miller 2 years/2 million (950,000/1.05 million)
Other
Zhitnik 3 years/10 million (2.5/3.5/4)
Rafalski 4 years/17 million backloaded(2/4/5.5/5.5)

Qualify
Pyatt (989,720)
Connoly (1,036,849)
Kotalik (837,900)
Tallinder (591,762)
Brown (585,200)
Bartovic (450,000)
Satan (3.99 mil)
Afinogenov (1,086,800) Trade
Biron (2.128 mil) Trade
Jillson (839,100) Trade

B]already signed[/B]
Roy (782,000)
Mair (450,000)
Drury (2.96 mil)
Noronen (665,000)
Mckee (1.862 mil)
Fitxpatrick (532,000)
Peters (450,000)

Don't Qualify
Boulton
Grier
Campbell

4. Trade Biron, Afinogenov, and Jillson to the Rangers for Karel Rachunek(salary?), Bryce Lampman, and a future 2nd

5. Lines

Hecht-Drury-Satan
Vanek-Briere-Dumont
Roy-Connolly-Kotalik
Pyatt-Gaustad-Mair

scratch- Peters-Batovic

Kalinin-Rafalksi
Zhitnik-Rachunek
Mckee-Tallinder

Scratch - Brown

Noronen-Miller

That's my 31 million dollar contender.

Just to make sure you understand, a player current season salary doesn't count against the cap. There average of the deal counts against the cap.

example: you sign player X to 5 year 25 million deal, 5 million per year counts against the cap. It doesn't matter that you pay him 2.5 m, 3.5 m, 5 m, 6.5 m, 7.5 m.

I don't like this because it kills creativity with the cap, but this makes sure the big teams don't gain an advantage by projecting into the future.

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Old
07-26-2005, 07:15 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
Hartnell?
Why Hartnell?
D'oh! You're right -- that's a mismatch. I was thinking Senators and posting Sabres. I was thinking that Hartnell was sandpapery enough for the Sens, and has shown ability to play the left side. We've already got pretty much the same player in Hecht, and I'd rather keep him.

What I was thinking for the Sabres was keeping an eye towards Colorado. If they sign Forsberg and Foote, that would leave the Avs open to getting Tanguay or Hejduk stolen out from under them. I'd prefer Tanguay, since he can play center as well.

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Old
07-26-2005, 07:59 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88
Just to make sure you understand, a player current season salary doesn't count against the cap. There average of the deal counts against the cap.

example: you sign player X to 5 year 25 million deal, 5 million per year counts against the cap. It doesn't matter that you pay him 2.5 m, 3.5 m, 5 m, 6.5 m, 7.5 m.

I don't like this because it kills creativity with the cap, but this makes sure the big teams don't gain an advantage by projecting into the future.

this i didn't know and doesn't make sense...

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Old
07-26-2005, 12:33 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
this i didn't know and doesn't make sense...

Think about this.

imgine Phily, having about 3 million vs the cap left for this year. They want to sign Forsburg. Using the average system you can forget it. They can't offer him 5 years $35 million with $5 million signing bonus and another $5 million bonus coming next year, paying him $2 million in salary each year.

This will be an element that will really help the smaller market clubs, because the bigger clubs will likely get too close to the cap to make big signings late. It will make GM's really have to be careful about how tight they get themselves to the cap because they will have limited flexibility.

Plus the league wanted to avoid the NFL stuff, where contracts are massively backloaded. Since all NHL deals are 100% guaranteed there's no reason for signing bonuses, and other type of bonus money that could be used to find away around the cap. And you know someone would use these to get around the cap. Now you just take the total value of the deal and divide it by the length and that's your cap figure for that player.

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Old
07-26-2005, 01:44 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88
Think about this.

imgine Phily, having about 3 million vs the cap left for this year. They want to sign Forsburg. Using the average system you can forget it. They can't offer him 5 years $35 million with $5 million signing bonus and another $5 million bonus coming next year, paying him $2 million in salary each year.

This will be an element that will really help the smaller market clubs, because the bigger clubs will likely get too close to the cap to make big signings late. It will make GM's really have to be careful about how tight they get themselves to the cap because they will have limited flexibility.

Plus the league wanted to avoid the NFL stuff, where contracts are massively backloaded. Since all NHL deals are 100% guaranteed there's no reason for signing bonuses, and other type of bonus money that could be used to find away around the cap. And you know someone would use these to get around the cap. Now you just take the total value of the deal and divide it by the length and that's your cap figure for that player.
do you have a link or source? not that i dont believe you. it's just the first time ive heard of this and would be interested in reading into it. any help would be appreciated.

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Old
07-26-2005, 03:16 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
Lang has put up 50+ points in the last six NHL seasons, and 65+ in five of those. When he was in Pittsburgh he played with Kovalev and Straka, and when he was in Washington, he played with an often unmotivated and below par Jagr and nobody else of real quality. Hell, he played some of his best hockey after the Caps traded Jagr last season. .
50 in last 5, 65 in 4 of last 5. During his time in Pittsburgh he played with the likes of Lemiuex, Jagr, Kovalev, and Straka.... not too shabby. in Washington you say he played with no one but a lazy Jagr and no one else of quality...hmm I think you hurt Bondras feelings. anyways. I don't put a lot into a player who was barely known for the first half of his career, and then plays the second half of his career with all star linemates.



H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
e is not a player who benefits solely from having good players around him. In fact, that is a tag that i would give to Drury.

You may think its retarded, but i see it as getting bigger down the middle, and trading for a bigger offensive threat as well. And not for too much more money.

Gilmour has nothing to do with this. Why do some people hark back to the past all the time?.
ACTUALLY, Lang is exactly the type of player who has benefited from having good players around him. i bring up gilmour because we, as sabres fans, must learn from the past.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
Come on man, be serious for a minute! If the Sabres somehow got Hossa, then i would leave the UK tomorrow and move to Buffalo. I promise you. I imagine that incriminating pictures involving Muckler, sexual acts and goats would be needed.

Havlat is the only one of those mentioned that could possibly be traded for, but even then, i dont like our chances of getting him. At all..
I dont like our chances either. but as a GM it would be worth looking into. unlike trading Drury for Lang. which would be only worth a laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
I agree with that. But Lang is not past it. He is coming off an 80 point season for christs sake! Well, kinda coming off if we forget about the lockout, you know what i mean.

And IMO Drury is not a vet, and the whole leadership angle often used with him is wildly over rated if you ask me.
Drury is not a vet? sorry i cant even address that. leadership angle? overrated? you did watch the end of the last season right?

by the way. there's a reason that nearly every single Detroit fan loved the trade proposal and every sabre fan said no way. need i say more.

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Old
07-26-2005, 03:31 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88
I don't like this because it kills creativity with the cap, but this makes sure the big teams don't gain an advantage by projecting into the future.
It forces GM's to focus on scouting (amateur and pro) and development. I think it's a good thing that hockey knowledge will determine success rather than financial wizardry.

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07-26-2005, 05:59 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
50 in last 5, 65 in 4 of last 5. During his time in Pittsburgh he played with the likes of Lemiuex, Jagr, Kovalev, and Straka.... not too shabby. in Washington you say he played with no one but a lazy Jagr and no one else of quality...hmm I think you hurt Bondras feelings. anyways. I don't put a lot into a player who was barely known for the first half of his career, and then plays the second half of his career with all star linemates.

ACTUALLY, Lang is exactly the type of player who has benefited from having good players around him. i bring up gilmour because we, as sabres fans, must learn from the past.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. I've seen enough of Lang, especially in his Pens days, to know that he's a quality player. Not a superstar, or franchise player, don't get me wrong. But he is a #1 center, with size. And that is one of the things we need.

And like I said, the same arguement can be made for Drury, but to an even greater extent. The only time he has really impressed, is when he has played with the likes of Tanguay, Hejduk, Forsberg, and the rest of Colorado's star studded team.


Quote:
Drury is not a vet? sorry i cant even address that. leadership angle? overrated? you did watch the end of the last season right?
Well he led us to the playoffs, didn't he? And Calgary sure missed him last year as well.


Quote:
by the way. there's a reason that nearly every single Detroit fan loved the trade proposal and every sabre fan said no way. need i say more.
Drury is one of the most over rated players in the game. Especially by Sabre fans.

If his value is more than Lang, which it might well be {who knows what goes around in the GM's heads}, then that is even more reason to move him, imo.

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Old
07-26-2005, 06:12 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
Drury is one of the most over rated players in the game. Especially by Sabre fans.

If his value is more than Lang, which it might well be {who knows what goes around in the GM's heads}, then that is even more reason to move him, imo.
His value is more than Lang simply because he is more valuable

I've been watching Drury play since he was in high school. so i am 100% biased. I have been a fan of his through out his career. and was ecstatic when the sabres acquired him. with that out of the way. let me say that Chris Drury and "most overrated" don't even belong in the same paragraph together let alone the same sentence. Chris Drury is a complete hockey player. nothing more, and certainly nothing less. If you watch hockey you should know this. goal scoring is not the only facet of the game.

and with regards to getting big down the middle.. a la Lang. Smaller, quicker, faster is the game of the future.

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07-26-2005, 06:47 PM
  #69
Rowley Birkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
His value is more than Lang simply because he is more valuable

I've been watching Drury play since he was in high school. so i am 100% biased. I have been a fan of his through out his career. and was ecstatic when the sabres acquired him. with that out of the way. let me say that Chris Drury and "most overrated" don't even belong in the same paragraph together let alone the same sentence. Chris Drury is a complete hockey player. nothing more, and certainly nothing less. If you watch hockey you should know this. goal scoring is not the only facet of the game.

and with regards to getting big down the middle.. a la Lang. Smaller, quicker, faster is the game of the future.
Drury is a great complimentary guy. I will give him that. He's good if he is between a couple of star wingers, and also playing behind a #1 center in a team. That is why he was very effective in Colorado, and wasn't {and most likely won't continue to be} as good in Buffalo. I don't justify having him on the Sabres. We are most likely cutting short our most dangerous offensive weapon, an 80point winger because 'we can't afford him' yet we still pay Drury $3m a year. Drury is not a #1 center, whichever way you look at it.

If we had Richards and Havlat on our team, and Vanek surely develops into an elite winger, and we still had money to spend, then yes, I wouldn't mind Drury on my team, at all. But that isn't the situation.

You say you are biased, and if the truth be told, so am I. I like flashy players, players who put the puck in the net. That is my #1 priority. Thats where our difference of opinion comes from i think.

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Old
07-26-2005, 07:02 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
do you have a link or source? not that i dont believe you. it's just the first time ive heard of this and would be interested in reading into it. any help would be appreciated.

When watching the draft lottery they talked about it. Plus I heard others talk about this.

Check here:
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

the entire CBA is here:
http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp

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Old
07-27-2005, 07:41 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88
When watching the draft lottery they talked about it. Plus I heard others talk about this.

Check here:
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

the entire CBA is here:
http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp
thanks

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07-27-2005, 07:46 PM
  #72
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88
When watching the draft lottery they talked about it. Plus I heard others talk about this.

Check here:
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

the entire CBA is here:
http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp
I skimmed through that. i didnt see anything regarding players totaly salary being divided by the years to give an average salary that counted each year against the cap. but i believe you anyways. makes sense with guaranteed contracts.

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