DDT: At what point is enough for you

[dulzhok]

Originally Posted by glenngineer

Dumont averaged 60+ points for his first 4 or 5 years here right? He's got 17 points this year? I'd say that he's sucked the offense out of JP.

Right... has nothing to do with him being old and not as good... So what are you saying? Trotz was a good offensive coach for 4 years. and now is bad?

In terms of talking about different players to the media. People will use the snippets that work for them. Would it really make you feel that much beter if he asked more out of Sullivan to the media? For all we know he did. Local reporters talk to Trotz several times a week, and only a small percentage of what he says actually gets published. Plus, the reporters will ask specifically about players. How do you feel Wilson is doing? etc, etc.

[triggrman]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

The play for Legwand was to get the puck deep. When he first received the puck, he had no one on him. He could have played it down low, but instead decided to look for a Dman coming in, that is when he got checked. Wilson was ready to jump if the puck went deep, which is the usual Pred offensive play. I am guessing, if it was Wilson, not Lewand that lost the puck on the boards, you would be blaming Legwand not Wilson?
The fact is that on every team in every game, teams lose the puck in the offensive zone for many different reasons that result in goals. To even blame Legwand on this play though is a joke. There were still 2 Dmen back that they had to beat before scoring

To be honest, is was a good play by them. Sometimes you just get beat by a good hockey play and that's what happen. The problem wasn't that Wilson didn't stop the play the problem was he didn't try.

[token grinder]

Originally Posted by triggrman

To be honest, is was a good play by them. Sometimes you just get beat by a good hockey play and that's what happen. The problem wasn't that Wilson didn't stop the play the problem was he didn't try.

that was kinda the point I think everyone is missing.

[sparkle twin]

Originally Posted by roseyc

Hartnell was better after he was traded in another system.

That's not necessarily true.

00-01 he scored 2g in 75 games
01-02 he scored 14g in 75 games
02-03 he scored 12g in 82 games
03-04 he scored 18g in 59 games (pace for 25)
05-06 he scored 25g in 81 games
06-07 he scored 22g in 64 games (pace for 28)

Since being traded

07-08 he scored 24g in 80 games
08-09 he scored 30g in 82 games
09-10 he scored 14g in 81 games
10-11 he scored 19g in 66 games (pace for 23 this season)

Last season's Cup run was only the second time in 6 playoff years that he even scored more than 1 playoff goal.


Everyone likes to say that Hartnell is such a better player now (I do it too sometimes) but really he's about the same. Unfortunately he was traded from us at a time when he was starting to come into his game. And naturally he would improve over time. But it's not like he suddenly became a perennial 30 goal scorer and never had a 20+ goal season with us. Also worth noting is that he's played almost every game with Philly while 2 of his last 3 with us were injury marred. Plus, don't underestimate the Philly factor...he's in the east, on a popular team, with a ton of media around him. Kind of like Hamhuis, the media thinks he's suddenly a great player.

[deanwormer]

Originally Posted by glenngineer

Dumont averaged 60+ points for his first 4 or 5 years here right? He's got 17 points this year? I'd say that he's sucked the offense out of JP.
.

Dumont got hit with a cheap shot a few years ago and has never been the same. He's worked hard on the things he can improve - like his skating - and he's tried to change his game up to play a bit more to his size. But, his game has always been finesse and skill. Well, the cheap shot or age or both took a lot of the skill and some of the judgement to finesse things. Plus - got no teammates to play finesse with.

He's 32, his game shouldn't have just completely gone in the tank - but it did. His career highs have been under Trotz, and it's not like he had Crosby and Ovechkin as linemates. For us to expect him to be a .75/game scorer today is unrealistic, but he should be able to do better than .3/game. Hell, Leggy skated virtually an entire year with Ward and Smitty against everyone's first lines and still managed to put up 38pts - sucky, but still considerably ahead of JP this year - it's not the coach, it's the player.

Now - if I do have a complaint about how Trotz has used JP this year, it's exemplified in that little string of games with Mueller and Halischuck. If JP gets a little bit of space he can still put a puck on a stick in front of the net, and he still knows how to find those "quiet spaces" when folks have the puck down deep. We have guys good at that and given that Trotz doesn't roll the 4th line in the 3rd very much anyway, we could certainly mix and match our lines and leverage some minutes from JP in the 1st 2 periods.