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Max Pac severe concussion & verterbrae fracture (UPDATE: to practice in 4-6 weeks!!!)

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03-09-2011, 10:12 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post

The fact that Campbells son plays for the Bruins is somewhat of a conflict of interest. He's the VP of Operations. It doesn't matter who hands out the suspension. all the top guys are working together. Bettman, Daly, Campbell are a unit. So it doesn't matter who hands out the suspension. I'm going on a limb and say that they will only give Chara 3 games. I'd prefer 10 to set an example, but I'm expecting 3 with these three stooges.
This is very true.

And, from the e-mails that were disclosed, we all know that Campbell is not above inquiring about his son and thus influencing the process. If he does that in official communications with other league officials, what does he do behind closed doors or on a phone call ?

Not to mention that for the people up top, what this is is old time hockey.

Phone hearing means a very predictable 2-3 games. League is a joke.

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03-09-2011, 10:12 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Schwang View Post
Pushing someone's head into the glass/boards at that speed with his size would have probably caused an injury too. The turnbuckle just made it worse. IT WAS A HEAD SHOT REGARDLESS!
I don't get why Bertuzzi was suspended at all.

It was the ICE that broke Moore's neck.

I am going to shoot people tonight. I didn't kill them, the bullet did.

The logic of some people is completely ridiculous.

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03-09-2011, 10:12 AM
  #78
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Essentially, this was a blindside hit. Except you are replacing the hitter with an immovable post. It's impossible to even think of a more dangerous hit. Seriously, how could a hit be any worse than this?

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03-09-2011, 10:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
I'm incredibly pissed off at the incident. And I'd be ready to spit on Chara now.

But the penal justice system is supposed to be objective and blind. And we can't presume what his intentions were.

So this just sucks. But such is life.

Too bad a promising young player will be set back from this.
Sure, the whole situation sucks, but like you said, such is life. Its just since I'm forced to be here right now (well, okay you know what I mean) reading people writting 3-4 paragraphs decribing how exactly Chara was thinking at that moment is kind of humerous, but sad as well.

In the end, I hope Max Pac is okay, I think Chara should get a couple games, and I'm glad the Habs once again showed the Bruins how to play real hockey.

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03-09-2011, 10:14 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
You can add the following:

If Chara lets him go, Montreal has a two on one.

It is a freak accident that the timing is exactly at the turnbuckle of the rink.

It would be no different if a player hits someone along the glass and the glass shatters causing injury. The turnbuckle is what caused the concussion, not the hit.

Watch the Johnson's hit on Smyth. No suspension given.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjb9X...layer_embedded
Technically, you're correct, but that's no different than the following arguments:
  • The skate blade cut him, not the stomp.
  • The stick took out his eye, not the guy swinging it.
  • The boards broke his neck, not the hit from behind.

That defense that he is somehow not responsible for where he is on the ice or that his play was innocent because if it had happened on the other side is completely insane.

It didn't happen on the other side and this was not some moving part of the arena. I could buy it if Pacioretty had flown in an open door, that could just be horrible luck, but no, he hit something that Chara spent half the game sitting two feet from.

Now, I am not saying it was premeditated. I don't think it was attempted murder, I suspect at worst it was thoughtless. He likely just threw the hit and didn't really think about where he was standing.

We will never prove worse and given Chara's history, I'd say that he deserves the benefit of the doubt on that part.

That said, I do not believe intent should be factored in at all.

Accident or not, Chara just wrote the handbook on legally sanctioned homicide in the Bell Centre.

Chara may not be a mean spirited goon, but there are guys in the NHL who are and if the NHL hands Chara a slap on the wrist, they're totally handcuffed in two weeks when someone else finds themselves in the same situation.

God forbid we're beating the Flyers badly and Chris Pronger is on the ice after they've locked up a playoff spot. He'll decapitate some poor Habs winger and plead the Chara defense... and the league and media will be stuck with the precedent of Chara and have to buy it.

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03-09-2011, 10:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
Sure, the whole situation sucks, but like you said, such is life. Its just since I'm forced to be here right now (well, okay you know what I mean) reading people writting 3-4 paragraphs decribing how exactly Chara was think at that moment is kind of humerous, but sad as well.

In the end, I hope Max Pac is okay, I think Chara should get a couple games, and I'm glad the Habs once again showed the Bruins how to play real hockey.
This becomes the problem for me. We might have won the game...but who really cares...I would rather have lost and have all of our players healthy right now. How far is too far over the line? I witnessed it last night.

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03-09-2011, 10:16 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
You can add the following:

If Chara lets him go, Montreal has a two on one.

It is a freak accident that the timing is exactly at the turnbuckle of the rink.

It would be no different if a player hits someone along the glass and the glass shatters causing injury. The turnbuckle is what caused the concussion, not the hit.

Watch the Johnson's hit on Smyth. No suspension given.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjb9X...layer_embedded
If a player hits a player from behind and his head goes into the boards should there not be a suspension, because if he had hit him in open ice his head wouldn't have hit the boards and thus no injury.

Fact is, the hit was made at the turnbuckle, and all the players know where that thing is. It is the responsibility of the hitter to make sure where they are hitting the guy, specifically in a vulnerable situation where the guy DOESN'T have the puck.

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03-09-2011, 10:16 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
I don't know Dr.Mulder, just met him a few times.

I am just stating regular prognosis of a grade IIIb concussion, I have no clue what Pacioretty's prognosis is.
Couple questions.

First, is it possible that it is a grade IIIb concussion if scans revealed no bleeds? Because that's what the reports were last night.

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Old
03-09-2011, 10:17 AM
  #84
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you really cant be serious? you think chara went out of his way to track down pacs the way those 2 did. If pacs got back up, we wouldnt be having this discussion. i am a bruins fan and that hit was reprehensible but a suspension that high is a bit much. i dont think the intent was there.

Take off the jersey for a moment and look at it with some perspective. If that incident in january never happened, we wouldnt think of it as more than an unfortunate hit. again, i think chara deserves a suspension but not a mcsorley/bertuzzi one
How about YOU get some objectivity and realize that what Chara did was premeditated, disgusting, a disgrace to the sport, that he may have very well ended a career and that he should be punished accordingly?

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03-09-2011, 10:18 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by oh we will View Post
you really cant be serious? you think chara went out of his way to track down pacs the way those 2 did. If pacs got back up, we wouldnt be having this discussion. i am a bruins fan and that hit was reprehensible but a suspension that high is a bit much. i dont think the intent was there.

Take off the jersey for a moment and look at it with some perspective. If that incident in january never happened, we wouldnt think of it as more than an unfortunate hit. again, i think chara deserves a suspension but not a mcsorley/bertuzzi one
The fact that Chara went after Patches in 3 separate games, culminating in a serious injury, could be seen as premeditated, and an attempt to get even.

I don't think Chara is a peace monger. I also doubt that the NHL gives more than 2-3 games. I'd like to see him get 5-7, because I think he did intend to injure, but such stuff is hard to prove.

Don't know what is up that dude's butt though. Patches taps him 3 games ago, and he headhunts. He does mire than taps people every game.

Hope patches gets better. So many good and great players leave this game early because of thuggery.

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03-09-2011, 10:20 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
The fact that Chara went after Patches in 3 separate games, culminating in a serious injury, could be seen as premeditated, and an attempt to get even.

I don't think Chara is a peace monger. I also doubt that the NHL gives more than 2-3 games. I'd like to see him get 5-7, because I think he did intend to injure, but such stuff is hard to prove.

Don't know what is up that dude's butt though. Patches taps him 3 games ago, and he headhunts. He does mire than taps people every game.

Hope patches gets better. So many good and great players leave this game early because of thuggery.
This. This. And This. For sure this.

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03-09-2011, 10:20 AM
  #87
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When I thought about it last night, I was convinced that Chara had a clear intent to injure (ie the pushing motion into the stanchion).

Thinking about it a little more and about who Chara is, I firmly don't believe that there was any malicious intent in the context of the play. For most part, he's never had a reputation as a dirty player. Hell, I'd love to have him in a Habs jersey. He's just a physical beast. On a personal level, he doesn't have the emotionally unstable demeanor of a Matt Cooke or a Dan Carcillo or a Shawn Thornton. He appears to be a pretty level headed guy, who wholeheartedly supports Right to Play to boot.

That said, there was a certain degree of carelessness in relation to his location on the ice. A vet at that level should demonstrate a better awareness of his surroundings when faced with such a situation. You know youre near the benches, you know the hit is late, you know that metal pole is coming at high speed - read and react accordingly.

That lack of awareness should be the basis of any suspension and not intent. That is why we won't see anything beyond 3-5 games.

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03-09-2011, 10:20 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
If a player hits a player from behind and his head goes into the boards should there not be a suspension, because if he had hit him in open ice his head wouldn't have hit the boards and thus no injury.

Fact is, the hit was made at the turnbuckle, and all the players know where that thing is. It is the responsibility of the hitter to make sure where they are hitting the guy, specifically in a vulnerable situation where the guy DOESN'T have the puck.
This post sums it up perfectly. I don't understand what goes through people's head when they blame the turnbuckle.

If you push someone off a cliff, do you blame the cliff ? I mean, after all, if he had pushed him in a grass field, nothing would have come out of it. Are people really this lacking in basic logic and common sense ? Really ?

It's precisely because Chara pushed Pacioretty toward the turnbuckle that the hit is disgusting. And if you think Chara didn't know where he was and that he didn't know the turnbuckle was coming, you're a fool. The play didn't happen THAT fast, and we're talking about a Norris trophy winner. You really going to argue that a Norris trophy winner has no clue where he is on the ice. These guys deflect pucks going at 100mph. They probably are aware of their surroundings, just saying.

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Old
03-09-2011, 10:21 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
You can add the following:

If Chara lets him go, Montreal has a two on one.

It is a freak accident that the timing is exactly at the turnbuckle of the rink.

It would be no different if a player hits someone along the glass and the glass shatters causing injury. The turnbuckle is what caused the concussion, not the hit.

Watch the Johnson's hit on Smyth. No suspension given.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjb9X...layer_embedded
Johnson:
1, hit him with his shoulder.
2, didn't guide Smyth head into the post with his hand
3, looked like he wanted to hit the man into the boards and just hit a little Early because he was staring at the puck.

Smyth:
had possession of the puck

You have an argument that this can happen, but in the case of Chara it could have been avoided and Chara made it worse but having his hand up against the guys face.

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03-09-2011, 10:22 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
The turnbuckle is what caused the concussion, not the hit.
I seem to remember similar statements to this effect after the Tucson shooting rampage.

I really don't want to receive any more warnings from HF mods but if I were to say something it would probably be that the above comments reflect the thought process of an inbred, NRA-membersip-holding, un-educated redneck - your typical Bruins fan.

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03-09-2011, 10:22 AM
  #91
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..and I hate to say this, but I cannot help but wonder what the media/league reaction would be if that exact hit had been Subban on Bergeron.

Or had it been Boychuk on Plekanec...

The age old veteran/star double standard is in full force.

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03-09-2011, 10:22 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
You can add the following:

If Chara lets him go, Montreal has a two on one.

It is a freak accident that the timing is exactly at the turnbuckle of the rink.

It would be no different if a player hits someone along the glass and the glass shatters causing injury. The turnbuckle is what caused the concussion, not the hit.

Watch the Johnson's hit on Smyth. No suspension given.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjb9X...layer_embedded
Whatever gets you to sleep at night dude.

1) If Chara lets him go, it was a 4-0 game and Boston was playing like ****, they had no chance anyways and it wasn't game 7 or something.

2) Freak Accident? He guided his head directly into the thing. He knew where he was hitting him, he knew Max didn't have the puck. The intent to severely injure may not be there but at least the intent to cause severe pain was.

3) It would be different because there's a difference between forcing a guys head into a turnbuckle and glass shattering on it's own. A more comparable example would be if the glass was already shattered and a player checked a guy through the boards onto the glass anyways. Chara clear as day guided his head onto the turnbuckle, Chara isn't a 12 year old peewee hockey player. He knows how dangerous that part of the ice is and intentionally went after a guy who didn't have the puck. Cause of an odd man rush in a 4-0 game the Bruins clearly lossed? Regardless of that "fact" he didn't even have the puck. No puck = late/dirty hit no matter which way you look at it, especially if the player is in that type of vulnerable position.

PS: Just because the league is a joke and has allowed **** like this to go on in the past and probably even present doesn't make it right.

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03-09-2011, 10:22 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
I'm incredibly pissed off at the incident. And I'd be ready to spit on Chara now.

But the penal justice system is supposed to be objective and blind. And we can't presume what his intentions were.

So this just sucks. But such is life.

Too bad a promising young player will be set back from this.
You're boring. Go with reckless disregard assault charges to alleviate my anger.

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03-09-2011, 10:23 AM
  #94
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03-09-2011, 10:23 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
When I thought about it last night, I was convinced that Chara had a clear intent to injure (ie the pushing motion into the stanchion).

Thinking about it a little more and about who Chara is, I firmly don't believe that there was any malicious intent in the context of the play. For most part, he's never had a reputation as a dirty player. Hell, I'd love to have him in a Habs jersey. He's just a physical beast. On a personal level, he doesn't have the emotionally unstable demeanor of a Matt Cooke or a Dan Carcillo or a Shawn Thornton. He appears to be a pretty level headed guy, who wholeheartedly supports Right to Play to boot.

That said, there was a certain degree of carelessness in relation to his location on the ice. A vet at that level should demonstrate a better awareness of his surroundings when faced with such a situation. You know youre near the benches, you know the hit is late, you know that metal pole is coming at high speed - read and react accordingly.

That lack of awareness should be the basis of any suspension and not intent. That is why we won't see anything beyond 3-5 games.

Really chezz? Were you being sarcastic with him not having an 'emotionally unstable demeanor'. How about the last bruins game where he came in swinging away, or the time he started laying into latendresse for no reason. The guy goes ape **** in almost every habs game. He would regularly get his elbows up on kovalev as well. When you take into account his small history with patches, it doesn't look good.

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03-09-2011, 10:25 AM
  #96
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**** off madame zora, to completely think you can read someones mind and say it was pre-meditated is ridiculous.

ya it was a bad hit, I watched the replay several times... but to say he deliberately did this is going way out of line... don't be such a homer.
I (a huge Habs fan) agree with you that it likely wasn't something he planned.

As I said before, at worst, it was careless.

That said, I still think a serious, serious suspension needs to be given (and won't be).

Whatever he gets sets a precedent that the league must follow and that precedent will say it's not his fault if he throws a guy head first into a turnbuck, but it is his fault if he throws him head first into the boards.

...and that is completely insane.

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03-09-2011, 10:25 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Really chezz? Were you being sarcastic with him not having an 'emotionally unstable demeanor'. How about the last bruins game where he came in swinging away, or the time he started laying into latendresse for no reason. The guy goes ape **** in almost every habs game. He would regularly get his elbows up on kovalev as well. When you take into account his small history with patches, it doesn't look good.
Yes, really. I see him as being a fierce competitor, not a psycho.

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03-09-2011, 10:25 AM
  #98
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What's it like living without a soul?
Never mind a soul, what's it like living without a brain?

There was no 2-on-1, Boychuck was about or already had gotten the puck. And, no comment on the hit didn't give him a concussion BS.

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03-09-2011, 10:26 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
..and I hate to say this, but I cannot help but wonder what the media/league reaction would be if that exact hit had been Subban on Bergeron.

Or had it been Boychuk on Plekanec...

The age old veteran/star double standard is in full force.
Probably even though he's not a repeat offender, would've got like 10 games cause he's a rookie. The media would be calling for his head though.

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03-09-2011, 10:26 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by speed11 View Post
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I can't believe people who see that pic and can argue in good faith that Chara didn't intend to send Pacioretty into the turnbuckle.

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