HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Max Pac severe concussion & verterbrae fracture (UPDATE: to practice in 4-6 weeks!!!)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2011, 10:27 AM
  #101
JaymzB
Registered User
 
JaymzB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 2,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
When I thought about it last night, I was convinced that Chara had a clear intent to injure (ie the pushing motion into the stanchion).

Thinking about it a little more and about who Chara is, I firmly don't believe that there was any malicious intent in the context of the play. For most part, he's never had a reputation as a dirty player. Hell, I'd love to have him in a Habs jersey. He's just a physical beast. On a personal level, he doesn't have the emotionally unstable demeanor of a Matt Cooke or a Dan Carcillo or a Shawn Thornton. He appears to be a pretty level headed guy, who wholeheartedly supports Right to Play to boot.

That said, there was a certain degree of carelessness in relation to his location on the ice. A vet at that level should demonstrate a better awareness of his surroundings when faced with such a situation. You know youre near the benches, you know the hit is late, you know that metal pole is coming at high speed - read and react accordingly.

That lack of awareness should be the basis of any suspension and not intent. That is why we won't see anything beyond 3-5 games.
Whether people want to admit it or not, I donít see too much difference between this, and Jonesí hit on Bergeron. He got 2 games. Not sure if Jones had any prior history of suspensions at that time. Add in the possibility of the past history between Max and Chara being a small factor, and your 3-5 games sounds right.

JaymzB is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:27 AM
  #102
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
You're boring. Go with reckless disregard assault charges to alleviate my anger.
Oh hush..l I'm doing corporate finance now. If I was in a litigation file, I'd be asking for Chara's balls on a nice bed of risotto.





By the wau Dog..


This place scares me.


I was just hugging jnthomas.

You wanna join us?

AD is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:29 AM
  #103
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Yes, really. I see him as being a fierce competitor, not a psycho.
Man seems to have a fuse go off once in a while.

Fido22 is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:30 AM
  #104
Lucius
Registered User
 
Lucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
Whether people want to admit it or not, I donít see too much difference between this, and Jonesí hit on Bergeron. He got 2 games. Not sure if Jones had any prior history of suspensions at that time. Add in the possibility of the past history between Max and Chara being a small factor, and your 3-5 games sounds right.
If you use the NHL's insanely horrible discipline record as a measuring stick, you're right. He may not even deserve a suspension.

...but it seems to me that someone is literally going to have to die before they bother upping suspensions across the board.

I'd have a hoped that a play where half the rink LITERALLY thought he was dead for a good 30 seconds would be enough for people to wake the hell up.

I drew the what if Subban/Bergeron example earlier, but the really scary fact is that had that been someone with a huge history of head injuries, we might well be talking about a fatality right now.

...and screw intent, whether it was Chara or the turnbuckle... If the line between "severe injury and death" is just the difference between which of the 10 skaters on the ice received the hit... Well it's time to make big changes and fast before the dice come up with the wrong number.

Lucius is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:30 AM
  #105
Lord Chezz
Registered User
 
Lord Chezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
Whether people want to admit it or not, I donít see too much difference between this, and Jonesí hit on Bergeron. He got 2 games. Not sure if Jones had any prior history of suspensions at that time. Add in the possibility of the past history between Max and Chara being a small factor, and your 3-5 games sounds right.
Indeed.

Then again, perhaps Im getting softer in my old age.

Lord Chezz is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:31 AM
  #106
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Oh hush..l I'm doing corporate finance now. If I was in a litigation file, I'd be asking for Chara's balls on a nice bed of risotto.
why would you ruin a good plate of risotto

Artie is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:31 AM
  #107
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Man seems to have a fuse go off once in a while.
Yeah but it didn't look like that for the hit.



This hit happens 7" to the left, or 7" to the right.. and its a 2 minute interference call.




And Desharnais scores on the pplay to make it 5 - 0

AD is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:31 AM
  #108
Trexim
Registered User
 
Trexim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by speed11 View Post
clearer pic:

Thanks for the pic. Chara clearly knew what he was doing. He is looking straight at the partition. He did not just lean on Max Pax, he clearly pushed Max's head and worse, kept him pinned there with the other arm. So disgusting.

Trexim is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:31 AM
  #109
Lord Chezz
Registered User
 
Lord Chezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Man seems to have a fuse go off once in a while.
So does Gomez, yet no one accuses him of being a wretched, vile creature.

Anywho, defending Chara's character is making me feel very very dirty.

Im going for a shower. AD, Fido...come with?

Lord Chezz is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:33 AM
  #110
Lucius
Registered User
 
Lucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Yeah but it didn't look like that for the hit.



This hit happens 7" to the left, or 7" to the right.. and its a 2 minute interference call.




And Desharnais scores on the pplay to make it 5 - 0
That defense is just ridiculous.

If a check from behind happens at mid ice, it's a collision or a good defensive play, if it happens 3 feet from the boards, it's possible paralysis.

This is absolutely no different.

Lucius is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:33 AM
  #111
Lord Chezz
Registered User
 
Lord Chezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie View Post
why would you ruin a good plate of risotto
Legend has it that your head will triple in size if you eat a Chara ball.

Lord Chezz is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:33 AM
  #112
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,452
vCash: 500
Some Bruins fans are all too forgiving when one of their players commits a gross act. "All it deserved was an interference penalty," they say. Their main concern was the number of minutes Chara was penalized. But when it comes to their own injured players they have the memory of an elephant and carry their grudges against Randy Jones and others forever. When I saw Pacioretty unconscious on the ice and being wheeled off on a gurney I momentarily harbored a dark thought that I wished it was a Bruin instead but I snapped out of it and realized that such wishes are barbaric. A number of years ago a wacko fan named Sarge88 posted on the Bruins board that he wished the Habs chartered plane would crash, and then he added that he meant it. I think someone with such sociopathic tendencies should seek psychiatric care before he loses himself and carries our one of his homicidal impulses. He would deny that he was capable of doing such a thing. but the mere thought is troubling to normal people.

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:34 AM
  #113
Beaker
In My Lab Goggles
 
Beaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In The Lab.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Yes, really. I see him as being a fierce competitor, not a psycho.
Chara usually plays a cool, calm, calculated game until things get out of hand and he completely loses his ****. It happens all.the.time. If he can't control his actions, he needs disciplinary action. That said, I'm opening a pay pal account, and will gladly accept donations to run my car right over Chara. **** him, die in a fire, and it makes me even more disgusted that there's no remorse. Its never happened that a hit made me no longer want to watch an exciting hockey game, until yesterday. The game ended after the hit, as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't even follow the game properly.

Beaker is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:34 AM
  #114
remer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
I seem to remember similar statements to this effect after the Tucson shooting rampage.

I really don't want to receive any more warnings from HF mods but if I were to say something it would probably be that the above comments reflect the thought process of an inbred, NRA-membersip-holding, un-educated redneck - your typical Bruins fan.
There is something wrong with you man! Get some help.

remer is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:34 AM
  #115
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
So does Gomez, yet no one accuses him of being a wretched, vile creature.

Anywho, defending Chara's character is making me feel very very dirty.

Im going for a shower. AD, Fido...come with?

Gomez only loses his cool with officials

Artie is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:34 AM
  #116
E = CH≤
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 16,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Yes, really. I see him as being a fierce competitor, not a psycho.
Except that is looking at it from the wrong angle.

Very very few people are actual psychos who are out to injure others. They don't derive pleasures from it. No one thinks that for anyone. The issue here is not that Chara is a murderer or anything.

Chara had a split second to make a decision. Let up, or not. Guide Pacioretty's body into the turnbuckle or not.

It is being ingrained into Bruins players heads that they need to fight, and hit as hard as possible and take guys out. That they should not let up when they face the habs. The hatred is nurtured by coaches, fans and radio hosts. Hatred at all costs and the answer to the hatred is not to beat your opponents at the game of hockey, it is to physically beat the other team. Their answer is violence. So when Chara is faced with a split second decision, what decision do you think he'll make ? Let up or not let up ? He doesn't have time to think about the full ramifications of his actions. All he knows is that if he lets up, he'll be accused of being soft instead of sending a message. It's that culture in hockey that has to go away. It won't go away with soft suspensions for actions like this though. It is being encouraged by the league.

E = CH≤ is online now  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:36 AM
  #117
JaymzB
Registered User
 
JaymzB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 2,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Anywho, defending Chara's character is making me feel very very dirty.
Agreed, let’s invade Slovakia as retribution.

JaymzB is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:37 AM
  #118
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Oh hush..l I'm doing corporate finance now. If I was in a litigation file, I'd be asking for Chara's balls on a nice bed of risotto.





By the wau Dog..


This place scares me.


I was just hugging jnthomas.

You wanna join us?
I prefer jcpetit.

But seriously, you don't need subjective intent for mens rea in this case. This looks pretty damn close to criminal negligence (an act with reckless disregard for the safety of others). My doggy gut tells me he wanted to stamp Patches on the turnbuckle in a "big hit" sort of play.....but that's a freaking stupid and dangerous play to make and the very definition of criminal negligence.

:danson:

Fido22 is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:37 AM
  #119
Belso
Registered User
 
Belso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speed11 View Post
clearer pic:

Like how can anyone defend this as an "Accident"?

Shoulder to shoulder maybe but look at Chara's hand and position.. where could have Max's head possible gone other than in the post???????

Belso is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:38 AM
  #120
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
So does Gomez, yet no one accuses him of being a wretched, vile creature.
Gomez's tantrums don't wreck careers.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:38 AM
  #121
A1
Everything is awful
 
A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 500
I can't stand people saying it was a legal play and Pacioretty is just a victim of circumstance and Chara shouldn't be suspeneded.


What Chara did was basically the equivalent of pushing someone in front of a moving bus, pushing someone isn't a crime but under those circumstances I'm pretty sure that person would be charged with manslaughter.

A1 is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:39 AM
  #122
JimmyDarmody
Registered User
 
JimmyDarmody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
Chara usually plays a cool, calm, calculated game until things get out of hand and he completely loses his ****. It happens all.the.time. If he can't control his actions, he needs disciplinary action. That said, I'm opening a pay pal account, and will gladly accept donations to run my car right over Chara. **** him, die in a fire, and it makes me even more disgusted that there's no remorse. Its never happened that a hit made me no longer want to watch an exciting hockey game, until yesterday. The game ended after the hit, as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't even follow the game properly.
Once I heard that Pac was "alright" I shut the game off. Nothing will happen to Chara, be it league discipline or on-ice revenge. That being said, he's a savage and I would not be opposed to seriously injuring one of their other players and giving big Z a nod as the stretcher comes out. Let his teammates know that their on the line for their captains actions.

JimmyDarmody is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:39 AM
  #123
SonOfGom
Registered User
 
SonOfGom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
There is something wrong with you man! Get some help.
lawl

git out of here, Mr. Guns kill people, not people

SonOfGom is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:40 AM
  #124
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
That defense is just ridiculous.

If a check from behind happens at mid ice, it's a collision or a good defensive play, if it happens 3 feet from the boards, it's possible paralysis.

This is absolutely no different.
Yes it is different.

Players cannot be expected to know the exact amount of distance they are with regards to the turnbuckle or the boards. But there is a huge difference between mid-ice and near the boards.



The real comparaison is this one:

If a check happens 2 feet from the boards its a potential dirty hit. If it happens 1 foot from the boards, its just a regular good play.

When Jones hit Bergeron and almost paralysed him, it was almost an identical hit than every other hit in the game, except Bergeron was 18" from the boards, not 8" from the boards. Jones wasn't criminally responisble. He was just slighly reckless.

2 game suspension.

I expect nothing more than 5 games here.

AD is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 10:40 AM
  #125
Boulette Cannon
Registered User
 
Boulette Cannon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,312
vCash: 500
This accident happened mainly because of bad board design. That 90˚ angle post must be changed, same goes for the doors. A new design must be thought of.

A few simple solutions could be tested and adopted throughout all the league, with minor investments from owners.

Companies spend alot of time/money on R&D for safer/better hockey equipment. Why this issue has not been adressed yet boggles my mind.

Boulette Cannon is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.