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Kings vs. Stars - 03/07/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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03-09-2011, 01:39 PM
  #276
Herby
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There you go, the whining word again. Guess anyone who disagrees with you Buddy is a whiner. I got it.

Maybe embarrassment was the wrong word for Smyth, I will give you that. Because he hasn't quit but he can no longer play Top 6 minutes in the NHL. Just like last season the guy started hot and has fizzled down the stretch when the games get important. Everyone used the injury excuse last season when he disappeared after the Olympic break and into the playoffs. And that was with the break for the Olympics. With no break this season it's been even more magnified how slow and behind the play he is.

Ryan Smyth since the new year

29 GP, 6G, 11A, 17 Pts +2

Ryan Smyth since February 1st

16 GP, 1G, 6A, 7 Pts -5

And that is with consistent Top 6 ES TOI and #1 PP TOI.

-----------------------------------------------

As for Stoll. The numbers don't lie. In the first 19 games he had 17 points. In the next 47 he has 21. 21 points in 47 games is 36 points over an 82 game season, so I gave him even more credit.


Jarret Stoll since the new year

29 GP, 10G, 5A, 15 Pts, -5

Jarret Stoll since Februrary 1st

16GP, 4G, 2A, 6 Pts, -8

-----------------------------------------------

Kopitar since the new year

29 GP, 5G, 19A, 24 Pts, +5

Kopitar since Februrary 1st

16 GP, 4G, 12A, 16 Pts, +4.

As for last season. Kopitar did get off to a hot start and he came dow to Earth but he still produced 52 points over the final 70 games last season after the hot start.


Obviously Kopitar needs to play better, I am not disputing that. But to say the guy has plenty of help is a joke. He is still finding a way to produce close to a point per game clip while preventing the other team from scoring against him despite the abysmal play of Smyth and Stoll on the second line, these guys might as well aks Reggie Jackson if they can borrow his nickname.

And as for Simmonds, generally as players get older their offensive numbers improve. I don't think it was to much to ask for that Simmonds atleast matched the 40 points he had last season if not climb up to the 50 point level.

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03-09-2011, 02:14 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
There you go, the whining word again. Guess anyone who disagrees with you Buddy is a whiner. I got it.

Maybe embarrassment was the wrong word for Smyth, I will give you that. Because he hasn't quit but he can no longer play Top 6 minutes in the NHL. Just like last season the guy started hot and has fizzled down the stretch when the games get important. Everyone used the injury excuse last season when he disappeared after the Olympic break and into the playoffs. And that was with the break for the Olympics. With no break this season it's been even more magnified how slow and behind the play he is.

Ryan Smyth since the new year

29 GP, 6G, 11A, 17 Pts +2

Ryan Smyth since February 1st

16 GP, 1G, 6A, 7 Pts -5

And that is with consistent Top 6 ES TOI and #1 PP TOI.

-----------------------------------------------

As for Stoll. The numbers don't lie. In the first 19 games he had 17 points. In the next 47 he has 21. 21 points in 47 games is 36 points over an 82 game season, so I gave him even more credit.


Jarret Stoll since the new year

29 GP, 10G, 5A, 15 Pts, -5

Jarret Stoll since Februrary 1st

16GP, 4G, 2A, 6 Pts, -8

-----------------------------------------------

Kopitar since the new year

29 GP, 5G, 19A, 24 Pts, +5

Kopitar since Februrary 1st

16 GP, 4G, 12A, 16 Pts, +4.

As for last season. Kopitar did get off to a hot start and he came dow to Earth but he still produced 52 points over the final 70 games last season after the hot start.


Obviously Kopitar needs to play better, I am not disputing that. But to say the guy has plenty of help is a joke. He is still finding a way to produce close to a point per game clip while preventing the other team from scoring against him despite the abysmal play of Smyth and Stoll on the second line, these guys might as well aks Reggie Jackson if they can borrow his nickname.

And as for Simmonds, generally as players get older their offensive numbers improve. I don't think it was to much to ask for that Simmonds atleast matched the 40 points he had last season if not climb up to the 50 point level.
So basically,

You are saying players go into slumps sometimes....

Good to know.

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03-09-2011, 02:23 PM
  #278
Herby
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
So basically,

You are saying players go into slumps sometimes....

Good to know.
So basically you are saying 50 games is just a slump?

Good to know

What I am saying is, don't give me this crap about Kopitar having a ton of secondary offensive support because Ryan Smyth and Jarret Stoll had a hot first month. You can sit here and say they are both 20 goal scorers, and technically you are right. But where have these guys been since January, when the team has desperately needed a clutch goal or two?

Stoll and especially Smyth have been MIA for quite a long time. Stoll atleast can provide other intangibles when he isn't scoring. When Ryan Smyth isn't scoring goals he is a a step up from Kevin Westgarth. And one goal in 16 games during the most important stretch of the season ain't gonna cut it.

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03-09-2011, 02:43 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
So basically you are saying 50 games is just a slump?

Good to know

What I am saying is, don't give me this crap about Kopitar having a ton of secondary offensive support because Ryan Smyth and Jarret Stoll had a hot first month. You can sit here and say they are both 20 goal scorers, and technically you are right. But where have these guys been since January, when the team has desperately needed a clutch goal or two?

Stoll and especially Smyth have been MIA for quite a long time. Stoll atleast can provide other intangibles when he isn't scoring. When Ryan Smyth isn't scoring goals he is a a step up from Kevin Westgarth. And one goal in 16 games during the most important stretch of the season ain't gonna cut it.
LOL wait a minute, so you only want to count the parts of their season that proves your argument???

Got it...

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03-09-2011, 02:55 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL wait a minute, so you only want to count the parts of their season that proves your argument???

Got it...
I didn't say that. I am arguing that Kopitar has had very little secondary offensive support for most of the season.

Would you like it better if I said...

"Other than October and November Kopitar has had little secondary scoring support from our second line"

Is that better?

You honestly think there play since the hot start has been good?

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03-09-2011, 03:04 PM
  #281
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
There you go, the whining word again. Guess anyone who disagrees with you Buddy is a whiner. I got it.
No.. anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Here let me put this here so you know I'm kidding.

Look man, I'm not stats guy. All I'm saying is you find every opportunity to bash the coaching and management. I know on certain situations you have given them praise but you wiill never, I mean never, miss an opportunity to bash them. That is fine, they aren't above criticism. I agree with you that the top line left wing should have been addressed long ago. However, the team has one of the best defenses in the league and a top goaltending tandem. But something tells me I would never see you spend the time to pluck stats about how great those areas are. And that is really what I find amusing about you and some of the others around here.

I disagree with your assesment of Smyth and Stoll. I know you've recognized that Stoll have been clutch in the shootouts. Those shootouts are a big part of the reason the Kings are even in the playoff picture right now. While not scoring goals, Smyth is one of the best on the team along the boards and that line regularly gets a lot of offensive zone time on the cycle. Don't get me wrong, Smyth's better years are behind him, he is slow as molasses but he is our best guy in front of the net and is great on the cycle which something that is critical to the success of the team game by game.

In the end, stats mean nothing to me. I care about wins and that is it. As long as the team is winning, I'll be happy. I don't care if they are playing "2-1 Terry Murray hockey" or score 8 before they score 9 hockey. So long as people are nitpicking about the team while we are in the middle of one of the hottest playoff races the Kings have been in longer than I can remember, I'm going to say they are whining. That is just my opinion. Maybe I'm just conditioned to watching so much poor hockey being played by this team that the minute they ice a decent team, I get excited. Or maybe it is just my inherent optimism about life in general. I swear some of the posters around here could find Jesus Christ's flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I didn't say that. I am arguing that Kopitar has had very little secondary offensive support for most of the season.

Would you like it better if I said...

"Other than October and November Kopitar has had little secondary scoring support from our second line"

Is that better?

You honestly think there play since the hot start has been good?
The team keeps winning. As long as we are throwing out certain stats to paint a picture, can you tell me the stats of each player minus that deplorable homestand back in Dec/Jan? Yeah I know.. what in the hell would be the point of that?

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Kopitar could have used some help earlier in the season but the fact of the matter is the secondary scoring carried the team when Kopitar wasn't scoring. And when the secondary scoring dried up, the team couldn't win a game. Without Stoll and Smyth, this team is probably not in a playoff spot. In which case, you'd probably be complaining about that. I don't think you can win with some of the people around here. Having a good team is not good enough.


Last edited by TonySCV: 03-09-2011 at 03:12 PM. Reason: merged
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03-09-2011, 03:13 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I didn't say that. I am arguing that Kopitar has had very little secondary offensive support for most of the season.

Would you like it better if I said...

"Other than October and November Kopitar has had little secondary scoring support from our second line"

Is that better?

You honestly think there play since the hot start has been good?
Here's the problem you run into,

You can have a "good game" and not score, you can have a "**** game" and score,

If you are going just by stats alone, you lose all perspective on the actual game itself.

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03-09-2011, 03:21 PM
  #283
Herby
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I don't think anyone is going to argue that Kopitar could have used some help earlier in the season but the fact of the matter is the secondary scoring carried the team when Kopitar wasn't scoring. And when the secondary scoring dried up, the team couldn't win a game. Without Stoll and Smyth, this team is probably not in a playoff spot. In which case, you'd probably be complaining about that. I don't think you can win with some of the people around here. Having a good team is not good enough.
Kopitar has been scoring all season buddy.

Kopitar's longest streak of games without recording a point was two games (on multiple occasions). He has been consistent all year.

Compare that to Stoll who went 4 games without a point twice, and five games without another time.

When Stoll and Smyth were complimenting Kopitar on the second line the Kings were one of the best teams in the NHL. As soon as those two started to crap the bed is when the Kings season began to slip away to the point now where we are the 8th seed.

The second line for the Kings has not held up their end of the bargain, and you can say the Kings are winning and doing so great but this team is currently 8th in the west and IMO with any kind of consistent production from a second line they could be challenging for the division.

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03-09-2011, 03:27 PM
  #284
Herby
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Here's the problem you run into,

You can have a "good game" and not score, you can have a "**** game" and score,

If you are going just by stats alone, you lose all perspective on the actual game itself.
I have watched all but one Kings game this season. Unfortunately only five in person. I can tell a quality hockey player. I have said on numerous occasions Stoll is a quality player if used right. He would be a good 3rd line center on any team. Jarret Stoll is simply not a second line center. He just doesn't consistently produce enough offense. A bad player? Nope. Just very misused by TM. Hopefully next season he is where he belongs on the 3rd line and as a shootout specialist.

Smyth on the other hand is absolutely horrible even though his goal stats say otherwise. This is a guy who provides nothing but goal scoring (and lately hasn't been doing that) He is awful in all facets of the game except for a 6 foot radius around the goal line. We have seen it all year with the turnovers at the blue line, the dumb penalties and the botched defensive assignments. This is just not a good hockey player and certainly not someone to play in a Top 6 role.

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03-09-2011, 03:44 PM
  #285
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Kopitar has been scoring all season buddy.

Kopitar's longest streak of games without recording a point was two games (on multiple occasions). He has been consistent all year.

Compare that to Stoll who went 4 games without a point twice, and five games without another time.

When Stoll and Smyth were complimenting Kopitar on the second line the Kings were one of the best teams in the NHL. As soon as those two started to crap the bed is when the Kings season began to slip away to the point now where we are the 8th seed.

The second line for the Kings has not held up their end of the bargain, and you can say the Kings are winning and doing so great but this team is currently 8th in the west and IMO with any kind of consistent production from a second line they could be challenging for the division.
I'm done because I'm not digging up stats. I'll chalk this up as a victory for you.

I guess I feel like you exaggerate a bit to make a point by calling Smyth "an embarrassment" and whatever word you used for Stoll on the PP the other day. Where you get on Kings17 for always regarding Lombardi in a positive light, you do the exact opposite and look for any way to expose his errors or flaws.

I maintain that Smyth and Stoll both provide more than scoring and Stoll has probably earned this team an addition 3 or 4 points by virtue of his shootout prowess alone. Without Stoll/Smyth on their tear, the Kings are much lower than the 8th seed. I might be mistaken but I believe Kopitar's goal scoring is down too.

Bottom line, the Kings need more from Kopitar AND Smyth/Stoll. Kopitar is now is playing with legitimate top 6 talent so there are no excuses anymore. So far they have been producing.

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03-09-2011, 06:02 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I have watched all but one Kings game this season. Unfortunately only five in person. I can tell a quality hockey player. I have said on numerous occasions Stoll is a quality player if used right. He would be a good 3rd line center on any team. Jarret Stoll is simply not a second line center. He just doesn't consistently produce enough offense. A bad player? Nope. Just very misused by TM. Hopefully next season he is where he belongs on the 3rd line and as a shootout specialist.

Smyth on the other hand is absolutely horrible even though his goal stats say otherwise. This is a guy who provides nothing but goal scoring (and lately hasn't been doing that) He is awful in all facets of the game except for a 6 foot radius around the goal line. We have seen it all year with the turnovers at the blue line, the dumb penalties and the botched defensive assignments. This is just not a good hockey player and certainly not someone to play in a Top 6 role.
Without Stoll or Smyth in the lineup the Kings are not even in a playoff spot.

Did you watch Van absolutely kill the Kings in the faceoff circle. That would be every team in the league if Stoll/Handzus was not on the Team.

The Kings would be one of the worst possession teams in the league.

You complain as if Stoll/Smyth are on Ten year contracts. Next year might be both of these guys last year as a King. The youth will get a shot, and then you can complain how they make mistakes. All the while blaming Dean for letting the youth play...... so much complaining.


Last edited by damacles1156: 03-09-2011 at 06:10 PM.
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