HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2011, 12:06 PM
  #301
MisterUnspoken
Vintage
 
MisterUnspoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 10,074
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to MisterUnspoken
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I've never insisted they will fire Torts. All I was saying was he should be fired because he failed short term. You came back saying he is valuable long term. That is not so. Torts is a short term fellow that was supposed to get us over the hump, something Renney was not able to accomplish. Now, when he failed there, the excuse is let him be around for this young group longer. I don't mind that, but that was not the original plan Torts must still be held accountable for. Plus Torts is not known for any long term success. It is a risky proposition to give him such opportunity.
Why is it risky to give him a long leash? I'm curious.

MisterUnspoken is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:11 PM
  #302
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I can't believe that what I thought was a fairly innocuous comment has been so controversial.

It has nothing to do with being pro-Renney. The comment has nothing to do with the coaches at all.

Both teams played a hard working style. That's all I was saying. Anybody who wants to jump all over that comment, feel free.
I just can't agree with this as a general statement. Sure, that team coming out of the lockout had some players that played with a similar high energy style of hockey. And not surprisingly it was the kids: the HMO line, along with Prucha, Betts & Orr, but this years team brings that style up and down the line up, from the top lines to the bottom...and the defense as well.

There are very few exceptions of players who do not embody that spirit on this team, that doesn't hold true for 05-06.

Vito Andolini is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:14 PM
  #303
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
Why is it risky to give him a long leash? I'm curious.
It's pretty obvious from his responses that he thinks Tortorella is dumb and uncivilized. And of course he has a short shelf life because he only lasted 6 years as coach in Tampa and wasn't brough back, in a somewhat unpopular decision, after missing the playoffs riding the great Johan Holmqvist in net...

Vito Andolini is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:20 PM
  #304
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,044
vCash: 500
If I was the Rangers I would wait to sign Brad Richards before I can Torts. lol

boredmale is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:32 PM
  #305
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,517
vCash: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I can't believe that what I thought was a fairly innocuous comment has been so controversial.

It has nothing to do with being pro-Renney. The comment has nothing to do with the coaches at all.

Both teams played a hard working style. That's all I was saying. Anybody who wants to jump all over that comment, feel free.
It was often said that the teams weren't tough enough and didn't stick up for one another, much the same that Edmonton is going through now. We'll never forget the day under Renney's regime when Donald Brasher was running around pounding down rangers and it took Brendan Shanahan to stand toe to toe with him. Today that would never happen. Often this year the Rangers have been the team pushing the opposition around.

I mean sure there's there isolated Carcillo attacks Gaborik incodent but nothing like the Todd Fedoruk runs amok all game long and we have to wait until the following game for Colton Orr to punch him the face. Really the next game?

No way, Torts has this Team caring about each other and playing a tough fore checking brand of hockey. They stick up for each other just like Boyle, our top goal scorer, did for Gilroy on Sunday. Renney's team never fore checked like this and they never stood up for each other like this ether.

On Renney's team Jagr scored, Ortmeyer fore checked, Betts killed penalties and Orr dropped the gloves. On Torts Team Boyle, Dubinsky, Callahan, Sauer, Drops the gloves, checks, scores, kills penalties, Everyone is expected to do everything. Hell, little Zucc gets up into the face of guys better than Nylander, Sykora, Rucchin, or Rucinsky ever did, those guys never fore checked one bit.

vipernsx is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:50 PM
  #306
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
It's pretty obvious from his responses that he thinks Tortorella is dumb and uncivilized. And of course he has a short shelf life because he only lasted 6 years as coach in Tampa and wasn't brough back, in a somewhat unpopular decision, after missing the playoffs riding the great Johan Holmqvist in net...
Pretty much it. Except he looks dumber than he is, IMO. I am not a proponent of Torts firing. I was an opponent of his hiring, rather Renney's firing to be exact, but it is long over now. He is not bad, but nothing special.

I don't like this team. I hate hard working people everywhere. Hard work is a sure sign for lack of skill, although it at times prevails over talent. I often work hard. Mostly when I don't really know what I'm doing.

94now is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:53 PM
  #307
Shadowrunner
Registered User
 
Shadowrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,200
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Shadowrunner Send a message via AIM to Shadowrunner
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Pretty much it. Except he looks dumber than he is, IMO. I am not a proponent of Torts firing. I was an opponent of his hiring, rather Renney's firing to be exact, but it is long over now. He is not bad, but nothing special.

I don't like this team. I hate hard working people everywhere. Hard work is a sure sign for lack of skill, although it at times prevails over talent. I often work hard. Mostly when I don't really know what I'm doing.


Then you must have been a huge fan of the team circa 1998-2004. Lindros, Kamensky, Fleury and co -- all the skill in the world, zero work ethic. That turned out just dandy, didn't it?

Shadowrunner is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 12:56 PM
  #308
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Pretty much it. Except he looks dumber than he is, IMO. I am not a proponent of Torts firing. I was an opponent of his hiring, rather Renney's firing to be exact, but it is long over now. He is not bad, but nothing special.

I don't like this team. I hate hard working people everywhere. Hard work is a sure sign for lack of skill, although it at times prevails over talent. I often work hard. Mostly when I don't really know what I'm doing.
So what your saying is teams that have skill shouldn't really work to hard

I'm an extremely hard worker, something that has led to my success at such a young age. I also know a lot about the topics that i work hard in.

Being good and working hard go hand in hand

Puckface NYR* is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 01:06 PM
  #309
mullichicken25
Registered User
 
mullichicken25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I hate hard working people everywhere.
this is a near sig worthy quote

mullichicken25 is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 01:29 PM
  #310
JimmyStart*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
...CONTINUED

\The Rangers now regularly draft quality players and Schoenfeld capably develops them in CT. The Rangers have a quality farm system stocked with solid prospects. They take time to develop. Sather is now in a position where he can use UFAs to augment his staff rather than fill gaping needs like he needed to before.

Torts is a quality coach and we need to let this team finish progressing it's development cycle. We're almost there.
Only caveat is we have tos ee if he truly was compensating for the failed farm development or if he was just a moron. Bad farm or not the Redden signing was beyond clueless and the vast voerpayment of Drury was hilariously bad (unless you're a Ranger fan in which case it's just legendarily bad). SO NOW we are in a position to see whether he was overcompensating.

Wolfgaze made terrific points about cap waste hindering Torts abilities to fill out the team and the fact that robruckus failed to understand made me lol extremely hard and be glad I wasn't paying attention to this thread. Some truly truly awful posts. Including the guy alleging injuries had no impact this season. One point to add to the injuries discussion.

Some guys may have come back too early which hampers them...or they have lignering issues...so numbers wise they play the games but...

Also some guys have rust when coming back which hampers them too. To discount injuries this season was comical.

I also like how all these guys set career highs wityh NO VETERAN HELP and some people discounted this as inconsequential when they set these new highs already with 20 or so games to go. Shows people have no clue how to put things into context. Anisi9mov had 13 G as a soph with over 20 games to go...he's now on his way to over 20 Goals, 40 pts. STep is close to that too as a rookie. Yet the guy responded as if AA had 13 g for the SEASON. As if the 20 g 40 pts from a soph 20 year old is SUCKY. No context.

People discounting injuries. No context.

Now part of Torts overall job is his past years too you shouldn't discount that either but sports are a what have you done lately business and lately Torts I feel has made a Coughlin like turnaround and if his trending upwards continues I'm fine. He's been great this season with all signs pointing to getting even better hence why i feel he should stay despite how horrible he was in that Wsh PO's and how we missed last year.

JimmyStart* is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 01:36 PM
  #311
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post


Then you must have been a huge fan of the team circa 1998-2004. Lindros, Kamensky, Fleury and co -- all the skill in the world, zero work ethic. That turned out just dandy, didn't it?
You left Nedved/Kovalev out. Yes, I have and I still am. We had terrible coaches. Even someone like Torts could have made a huge difference in terms of results by wrecking the country club we had those years.
If we don't make playoffs this year, I don't see much of the difference. I believe in future but I value present much more.

94now is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 01:53 PM
  #312
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
You left Nedved/Kovalev out. Yes, I have and I still am.
94 Now you are filled with epic quotes today....dont stop

Puckface NYR* is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 02:15 PM
  #313
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,894
vCash: 500
if we had the first line from those post lockout teams combined with the quality 2nd line players we have now, wed have a stanley cup caliber team.

we just dont seem to get it, you need elite players AND depth to win in this league (or at least go far in the playoffs) 1 alone wont do it.

Straka - Nylander - Jagr
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Wolski - Stepan - MZA
Avery - Boyle - Prust

too bad we cant do that today, or back in those days lol

Inferno is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 02:47 PM
  #314
BobSantos
 
BobSantos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
You left Nedved/Kovalev out. Yes, I have and I still am. We had terrible coaches. Even someone like Torts could have made a huge difference in terms of results by wrecking the country club we had those years.
If we don't make playoffs this year, I don't see much of the difference. I believe in future but I value present much more.
What it takes to be great:
Research now shows that the lack of natural talent is irrelevant to great success. The secret? Painful and demanding practice and hard work

See the article here.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...1794/index.htm

There are books on this subject. A lot of work (hard work) has gone into it. I think the coaching staff from Hartford to NYC believe in this.

The conclusion:

Quote:
The critical reality is that we are not hostage to some naturally granted level of talent. We can make ourselves what we will. Strangely, that idea is not popular. People hate abandoning the notion that they would coast to fame and riches if they found their talent. But that view is tragically constraining, because when they hit life's inevitable bumps in the road, they conclude that they just aren't gifted and give up.

Maybe we can't expect most people to achieve greatness. It's just too demanding. But the striking, liberating news is that greatness isn't reserved for a preordained few. It is available to you and to everyone.

BobSantos is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 03:11 PM
  #315
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
What it takes to be great:
Research now shows that the lack of natural talent is irrelevant to great success. The secret? Painful and demanding practice and hard work
Well, propaganda it is.

How about loving what you're doing and not working a single day in your life therefore? Ah?

I don't mind talent to work hard, I love it, it gets wonderful results. However, it should be done away from spectators, at practice. Once you come to perform there should be no place for struggle, errors, excessive sweat, wobbling and, you name it... other signs of hard work.
This Rangers team elaborate visibly on ice often. That is the sign of things being over their heads. I have to give it to Torts, he can create overachievers. The problem is, though, that's not a pretty sight.

94now is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 03:48 PM
  #316
BobSantos
 
BobSantos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Well, propaganda it is.

How about loving what you're doing and not working a single day in your life therefore? Ah?

I don't mind talent to work hard, I love it, it gets wonderful results. However, it should be done away from spectators, at practice. Once you come to perform there should be no place for struggle, errors, excessive sweat, wobbling and, you name it... other signs of hard work.
This Rangers team elaborate visibly on ice often. That is the sign of things being over their heads. I have to give it to Torts, he can create overachievers. The problem is, though, that's not a pretty sight.
Do you want them to skate around in ascots drinking cups of tea with their pinky fingers out? - JK.

Anyway - Malcolm Gladwell suggests that 10,000 hours of hard work/practice is required to create high competence in most fields. That's 3.5 years constant hard practice (imagine a piano player doing scales all day). Of course for a hockey player, that's not a solid year of work. there's a lot of down time to rest and recuperate and, obviously, the off season. So for a guy breaking into the league, that's quite a few years of hard work to create an outstanding NHL-er.

I think Torts and Schoenfeld are trying to give you what you want - but it may take some more time than you expect.

BobSantos is offline  
Old
03-09-2011, 04:03 PM
  #317
kovazub94
Registered User
 
kovazub94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
if we had the first line from those post lockout teams combined with the quality 2nd line players we have now, wed have a stanley cup caliber team.

we just dont seem to get it, you need elite players AND depth to win in this league (or at least go far in the playoffs) 1 alone wont do it.

Straka - Nylander - Jagr
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Wolski - Stepan - MZA
Avery - Boyle - Prust

too bad we cant do that today, or back in those days lol
Nice, but I'd argue even with this 1st line the team would be at least one year away from true contention - our 2nd and 3rd lines are not Stanley Cup caliber... yet. And that is on top of a "natural" timeline separation of about 5 years.

My point I guess is that Sather screwed up royally when he $igned Gomez and Drury but even if he didn't - that team wouldn't link with the current one in any way.

kovazub94 is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 09:01 AM
  #318
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Do you want them to skate around in ascots drinking cups of tea with their pinky fingers out? - JK.

Anyway - Malcolm Gladwell suggests that 10,000 hours of hard work/practice is required to create high competence in most fields. That's 3.5 years constant hard practice (imagine a piano player doing scales all day). Of course for a hockey player, that's not a solid year of work. there's a lot of down time to rest and recuperate and, obviously, the off season. So for a guy breaking into the league, that's quite a few years of hard work to create an outstanding NHL-er.

I think Torts and Schoenfeld are trying to give you what you want - but it may take some more time than you expect.
I agree, although most of NHL rookies have over 10 years of hockey practiced every day. I know there's no other way to improve the on ice product. I, however, do not like to see all of that. I, frankly, prefer an obscure club to develop a player and watch him working hard in his progression. Then I want that now complete performer to come to NY and be part of the most dominant team money can buy. MY USERNAME SAYS IT ALL.
I hate salary cap because it made such approach almost impossible. I can't stand the parity. My Rangers will never be the Yankees of Hockey. Oh, well...


Last edited by 94now: 03-10-2011 at 09:09 AM.
94now is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 11:38 AM
  #319
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I agree, although most of NHL rookies have over 10 years of hockey practiced every day. I know there's no other way to improve the on ice product. I, however, do not like to see all of that. I, frankly, prefer an obscure club to develop a player and watch him working hard in his progression. Then I want that now complete performer to come to NY and be part of the most dominant team money can buy. MY USERNAME SAYS IT ALL.
I hate salary cap because it made such approach almost impossible. I can't stand the parity. My Rangers will never be the Yankees of Hockey. Oh, well...
The Rangers tried to do that, and instead they missed the playoffs 7 straight years in a row....

Like Herb Brooks said, "you dont need the best players, you just need the right players"

basically you can have all the talent on a single team money can buy, but if they dont WORK HARD and have good chemistry and play to a certain system, you WONT win.

Hockey2000nyr is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 11:41 AM
  #320
Embryo*
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 469
vCash: 500
Typical impatient NY fans. Firing Renney really made a difference huh? That worked, oh wait we missed the playoffs the next season and lost in the first round after we fired him.

Embryo* is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 01:02 PM
  #321
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
It was often said that the teams weren't tough enough and didn't stick up for one another, much the same that Edmonton is going through now. We'll never forget the day under Renney's regime when Donald Brasher was running around pounding down rangers and it took Brendan Shanahan to stand toe to toe with him. Today that would never happen. Often this year the Rangers have been the team pushing the opposition around.

I mean sure there's there isolated Carcillo attacks Gaborik incodent but nothing like the Todd Fedoruk runs amok all game long and we have to wait until the following game for Colton Orr to punch him the face. Really the next game?

No way, Torts has this Team caring about each other and playing a tough fore checking brand of hockey. They stick up for each other just like Boyle, our top goal scorer, did for Gilroy on Sunday. Renney's team never fore checked like this and they never stood up for each other like this ether.

On Renney's team Jagr scored, Ortmeyer fore checked, Betts killed penalties and Orr dropped the gloves. On Torts Team Boyle, Dubinsky, Callahan, Sauer, Drops the gloves, checks, scores, kills penalties, Everyone is expected to do everything. Hell, little Zucc gets up into the face of guys better than Nylander, Sykora, Rucchin, or Rucinsky ever did, those guys never fore checked one bit.
Thats an interesting picture you attempt to paint, even if it as pretty much entirely revisionist history.

....also interesting how Renney's teams finished higher in the standings...

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 01:03 PM
  #322
JimmyStart*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embryo View Post
Typical impatient NY fans. Firing Renney really made a difference huh? That worked, oh wait we missed the playoffs the next season and lost in the first round after we fired him.
Jagr putting in 100+ pts kinda helped. Relegating it to the coach seems like it really discounts way too much

JimmyStart* is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 01:12 PM
  #323
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Tortorella isn't getting fired. Not happening.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 03-10-2011 at 01:30 PM.
SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 01:14 PM
  #324
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
....also interesting how Renney's teams finished higher in the standings...
Why is it interesting though? Those teams were constructed differently with more veteran and experienced players.... They certainly weren't built for any long term success... We had lots of stop-gap veterans in the past.... Great for just making the playoffs, poor for long term success..


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-10-2011 at 01:23 PM.
wolfgaze is offline  
Old
03-10-2011, 01:44 PM
  #325
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You're not following me... The whole point is that the better teams in the league who aren't struggling to limp into the playoffs, do not have multiple players soaking up significant amounts of cap space and putting up minimal production.... The Rangers had depth issues to begin with, and it hurts even more when you factor in the injuries and lack of production of said players when healthy...

Here's more perspective for you:

Gaborik / Drury / Frolov combined have 68 points in 114 games played. They take up $17.5 mil of cap space or nearly 30% of our cap... We're getting 68 points in 114 games out of 30% of our cap space.... Henrik and Daniel Sedin each have 75+ points and carry a $6.1 mil cap... One forward on Vancouver is outproducing our 3 highest paid forwards combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I would argue that it did affect the team... Not because of how he was playing prior to his injury, but based on the fact that the Rangers committed $3 mil in cap space for this guy and that it's probably not unrealistic to say that they expected somewhere in the vicinity of 20 goals and 40-55 points out of him... Having him play like crap and then losing him to injury for the remainder of the season definitely affected this team's scoring depth, resulting in other players having to step up and pick up the scoring load (Boyle most notably).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
He was signed to play a role, specifically to add scoring depth as a top 6 forward... He can't do that now can he? The fact that he wasn't filling that role when he was healthy is irrelevant, because it's the cap space (and subsequent loss of depth) that is the loss... Just like Drury's contract.... $10 mil in dead cap space combined... In relation to this thread subject matter, that's just another factor that has presented a challenge/problem that's out of the coach's hands and working against him... We have $10 mil in cap space committed to two forwards who were supposed to contribute to our offensive depth, and they're both out of the picture now.... You can't supplant that missing scoring depth easily outside of prospect call-ups, because it's not like there's valuable forwards just sitting around waiting to be signed when you incur season-ending injuries.... Does that seem clear now? 1/6th of our cap space was committed to two forwards who had little to no impact on the team's offensive production... That's Sather's fault, and Tortorella's problem. How many other teams in a similar position to the Rangers have/had $10 mil of cap space sunk into two forwards not contributing much of anything to their team's success?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Are you intentionally missing the point? Because I didn't think my point was that complicated... Every team has a limited amount of cap space to fill out their roster. The Rangers entered their season with $7 mil committed to Chris Drury, and $3 mil committed to Alex Frolov.... That's 1/6th of their cap space... Between playing crappy hockey when healthy, and now the injuries, the Rangers, with 14 games left to play on the season, have gotten a combined 7 goals and 20 points out of Drury & Frolov, two players expected to contribute to our offensive depth.... Blame it on poor play, blame it on the injuries, blame it on horrible contracts from Sather, none of it goes back to anything Tortorella did or didn't do, yet the circumstances significantly influence where the Rangers fall in the standings.... It's an extreme situation of cap-inefficiency, it significantly impacts our depth and our competitiveness with the rest of the league, and the blame lies with the players and the GM who gave them contracts... How many other teams are getting 20 points out of 1/6th of their cap space , cap space that was relegated to players expected to play and contribute in Top 6/9 Forward roles? Here's some perspective, in 65 games, Marc Staal has registered 3 more points than Drury & Frolov combined were able to contribute in a total of 66 games.

I don't understand why more fans, in the context of this discussion, don't want to take closer look at look at how this team was constructed by Sather, how the cap hits are dispersed relative to production, and subsequently how injuries have hurt this team due to our poor depth and poor value contracts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Show me another team whose GM committed $10 mil to two forwards who produced a grand total of 20 points this season. What other teams currently holding playoff positions are getting this kind of value from $10 mil in cap space relegated to 2 top 9 forwards???



Uh what????? If a discussion about cap hits and injuries, as they related to team depth, is over your head, just let me know and I'll stop now... Tell me how you, as a coach, fill the void left by two players soaking up $10 mil in cap space combining for 20 points and suffering season ending injuries... This can't be any more clear... We have crappy depth that can't compensate for colossal failure contract & performances from players who were signed to play important roles on this team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
The whole point is that this is not a product of Tortorella's doing, yet the circumstances significantly impact the team's ability to be competitive... Do you think Philly, Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh are getting this kind of performance vs. cap hit value out of their veteran Top 6/9 forwards??? To analyze the coach's performance vs. the team's performance, without any regard for these circumstances, is ill-advised...

You bring up the hypothetical of spending that money on 2 other players... The whole point is that Sather didn't, and we can't after the fact when they get injured for the season, because there aren't FA's sitting around out there waiting to sign contracts and fill the void left by the players who were expected to contribute in these roles.... Sure you can trade for players, but at what cost to your organization and your current team depth???



34 year old Chris "Clutch" Drury needs John Tortorella to coach him into contributing? Alex Frolov with seven 20 goal seasons under his belt, needed Torts to show him how to score goals and contribute offensively? Both were given ample opportunities to show they could contribute, both proved to be ineffective in those roles, and were passed in favor of players who could contribute more...

Do you honestly think a coach is going to have the same influence and impact on two seasoned veterans with a combined 17 years NHL experience, as he does with 3 first year rookies? Experienced veterans are low maintenance... They know what's expected of them, and they know how they're supposed to get the job done, because they've lived that before..... They don't need a coach to show them the way... Rookies require much more attention and work on the part of the coaching staff... That much is evident... The coaches are much more actively involved in how they practice, how they train, how they approach and react to game situations, etc....
Wow, great job...You must be exhausted though...I mean, your points cannot be any clearer nor make more sense. imo those who dislike Tortorella aren't dumb and completely get what you're saying. But (again) imo, they just don't like him. So it really doesn't matter how hard you try to convince ppl.


Last edited by gravytrain6t: 03-10-2011 at 01:59 PM.
gravytrain6t is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.