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Big surprise - Thornton not happy

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Old
07-28-2005, 12:04 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's
Who reported this the Montreal fans and media. I don't believe that Koivu was hurt that bad at all. It's funny how right after Boston revealed how injured Joe was all of a sudden Montreal people are saying well are captain was hurt even worse. Yeah right.
Your captain's a bit of a knobhead. Got out played fair and square by the little guy with worse injuries. See the TSN article above.

If he gets 7 million than the NHL is still messed up.

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07-28-2005, 12:08 PM
  #102
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I must admit, I'm not the biggest Thornton fan around but the guy has talent. If Boston doesn't want to lock him up (the fan apathy alone is enough not too, I guess) then someone else will. The guy's an ass, but a talented one. Let him choke in the playoffs for some other team. I think he'll redeem himself wherever he goes.

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07-28-2005, 03:29 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I don't know why Koivu was even brought into the discussion, but perhaps you should do some home work before questioning Saku's injuries.

TSN Link on Koivu Injuries

You think I haven't seen articles like that before. It's all bull***t. Sure he might have been a bit hurt but who isn't after the playoffs. To say he was as injured as Joe was is a complete exaggeration. That reporter could've been fed complete bull***t for all you know.

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Old
07-28-2005, 03:30 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zednified
Your captain's a bit of a knobhead. Got out played fair and square by the little guy with worse injuries. See the TSN article above.

If he gets 7 million than the NHL is still messed up.
Our captains twice the player your captain is/was/ever will be. Period.

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07-28-2005, 03:57 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's

You think I haven't seen articles like that before. It's all bull***t. Sure he might have been a bit hurt but who isn't after the playoffs. To say he was as injured as Joe was is a complete exaggeration. That reporter could've been fed complete bull***t for all you know.
Wow just Wow. Give me a minute and I'll post Saku's medical records

I think you should have a look aournd this thread. I'm not one of the posters laying into Thornton or saying that Koivu was "as injured as Joe". If you want to believe that Koivu's injuries were a fabrication, knock yourself out, as it saves me from having to take anything you post seriously.

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07-28-2005, 04:10 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Ummm what?

His games played (with points in parenthesis):
81 (60)
72 (71)
66 (68)
77 (101)
77 (73)

I don't see how me not posting games played was doing what you said. Furthermore, I'm being nice and not showing his first two years in the league.

The guy has been consistant at just under a ppg except for one year where his stats jumped. Fluke? No, I mean he's good and earned it. But as of now that year is the exception not the norm.

And even if it were based on games played (it's not, but nypothetically), it wouldn't matter since again we were talked about him being worth team max and that would be something teams take into account as well.
Spin isn't necessarily a bad thing, everyone expressing a P.O.V. uses it, including me. You can spin Thornton's stats by using the season when he put up 60 in 80 (when he was 20), or even 7 in 55 (when he was 18) if you want. IMO they're irrelevant.

In my opinion, when you said "Which is the real Thorton? The 101 point? Or the one that the last 4 out of 5 years is avg about 68 points a year?," I didn't feel that last line accurately represented the type of player Thornton has proven he is.

It's factually correct but the spin on the facts (which ones you decided to present) made it seem he's been less of a player than he is. (Though I prob. put too much emphasis on games played). That's the only thing in your original post I disagreed with.

Re: team max, I agree, I wouldn't give Thornton team max, I don't think I have to disagree with every part of a post to respond to it.

But, the Bruins don't have the luxury of waiting till he's proven it before they have to pay him that way. He's unrestricted next summer. Under the old CBA you could pay guys based on what they've accomplished in the past, but Thornton can go on the open market before he reaches his prime years of production. Therefore, the Bruins have to project what he'll do during those years, and pay him that way, or else risk losing him for nothing.

In that light, a 26 y.o. 6-4 center, whose averaged a point a game since he turned 21, including but not contingent on a 100-point season, has a better claim on approaching the max than if just based on what he already has accomplished.

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07-28-2005, 04:17 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Mike
Quite frankly, the original poster had a point. Sure, he's averaged about a point per game, but if he can't stay in the lineup, why bother insisting that the's 85-90 point center when he's only ever done that once in his career?

The games Joe doesn't play in through either injury or suspension still count.
I don't think that, if he becomes a free agent next summer, anyone will shy away based on his suspension history. Its a fair criticism to say he needs to show more restraint, but I don't think its something that will have much influence on his salary.

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Old
07-28-2005, 04:47 PM
  #108
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Heatley wanted wrote:


I think if I were Thornton I would say 2-3 years at 5.5 and get me murray and ____ and ___, get me some real talent.
See where we end up and then ask for a raise when I have shown the team that I am one of the best and we have had a chance to go deep in the playoffs.

What if Thornton was offered two choices?
A)take the max 7.8 and get lyle odelein and brian savage on the team
B)take the 5to 5.5 mil 2-3 year deal and we will get Forsberg,Murray and Foote for 2-3 years for you.

What would people think of him if he chose A because he still felt he was worth the max?
If every player that thinks they should get the Max and every player that some of the fans feel should get the Max really do, The NHL is Screwed





These sentiments have been expressed several times in this thread so I'm just using
this post to reply to, but I strongly disagree with this notion that if Thornton gets
the maximum, his team will suck, but if he takes a lower salary the team will be a Stanley Cup contender.

Look at the example cited here. A $7.8 million contract nets you Odelein and Savage as teammates, but $5-$5.5 million gets you Forsberg, Glen Murray, and Foote. Really? Can you really get Forsberg, Murray and Foote for only $2.3 million above and beyond Savage and Odelein?

What was the team payroll of the last Stanley Cup champion? The last four Western Conference finalists? The last two President's Trophy winners?

A $39 million payroll less $7.8 million still leaves $31.2 million, or $1.418 million average for the remaining 22 roster players.

A $39 million payroll less $5.5 million leaves $33.5 million, or $1.522 million average
for the remaining 22 roster players. These are not numbers that spell the difference between Stanley Cup contender and perennial loser.

Taking the Bruins 2003-04 as an example, their success at juggling their payroll isn't going to come from short-changing their franchise player, the one they should be locking up to a long-term deal in order to attract OTHER key players to come to Boston, but rather from not paying out huge salaries to 3rd and 4th line forwards, (e.g. Lapointe @$5.5mil, Rolston $3.175 mil, Zamuner $2.0 mil, Green $1.6 mil,) and 3rd-pairing defencemen (O'Donnell @ $2.7mil, McGillis $3.2 mil.)

But it looks like the Bruin front-office P.R. spin might pay off. Thornton is cast as the greedy villain who wants all the money for himself and not leave enough crumbs for the rest of the roster, and some Bruins fans seem to be buying it.

Ya think he'll want to stay in Boston under such circumstances?

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