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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
03-10-2011, 06:36 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
It's exactly my point. This team is mediocre now and it's Sather's doing. So why are we talking about potentially firing "Torts," when we all agree the team is where it is because of Sather. Shouldn't this be a "if we don't make the playoffs, Sather should be fired."
Yes, it should be. But we've all acknowledged that Sather is here as long as he wants to be. That's the reality of the situation. So the question becomes, "What is the problem with the team, other than Sather?"

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Old
03-10-2011, 06:56 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yes, it should be. But we've all acknowledged that Sather is here as long as he wants to be. That's the reality of the situation. So the question becomes, "What is the problem with the team, other than Sather?"
I would copy and paste everything Wolf Gaze has said because I believe he's dead on. I would pretty much be saying the same #### but after seeing how the Tortorella haters wouldn't have any of it the first time, there's no point in going over the same stuff he's said over again, again.

There is no one problem.

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03-10-2011, 07:03 PM
  #353
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i still think were headed in the right direction. imho were a lot closer to a stanley cup competing team now than we have been since we lost to the Sabres in the playoffs. what we need is to move some of our more redundant pieces and bring in true impact players with them.

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03-10-2011, 07:57 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i still think were headed in the right direction. imho were a lot closer to a stanley cup competing team now than we have been since we lost to the Sabres in the playoffs. what we need is to move some of our more redundant pieces and bring in true impact players with them.
Exactly, and that is what mattered. Everyone wanted Torts to come in and give results, but it takes time to construct a team from the ground up. It took Tortorella 4 and a half seasons to win a cup in Tampa, and their core players were in their prime. Our core players are 3+ years away from their prime.

Give it time, trust the process.

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03-10-2011, 08:51 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yes, it should be. But we've all acknowledged that Sather is here as long as he wants to be. That's the reality of the situation. So the question becomes, "What is the problem with the team, other than Sather?"
Actually, imo it's still Sather.

It's like having a hockey team (for example) that's losing games because they give up tons of goals and everyone else on the team acknowledges that they would be much better with another goal tender.
Problem is, the goalie was assured the job is his for as long as he wants it. The reality of the situation is that the team is stuck with him.

Than a player asks his teammates "what is the problem with this team other than our goal tender?"

The answer is still, "we need another goal tender."

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03-10-2011, 09:11 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by New England Hockey View Post
Exactly, and that is what mattered. Everyone wanted Torts to come in and give results, but it takes time to construct a team from the ground up. It took Tortorella 4 and a half seasons to win a cup in Tampa, and their core players were in their prime. Our core players are 3+ years away from their prime.

Give it time, trust the process.

How long are we going to use the terminology 'growing team' and 'building' and 'it's a process'? THere is a difference between Tampa and New york. Tampa Bay had legit stars in the making. Rangers do not. I don't want to here the Dubinsky and Callahan crap. Or the Del Zotto and Staal crap either. These players are average when compared to the rest of the players in the league. THere is nothing growing on this team other than black mold. This team is hopeless. Every year it's the sh**! This excuse and that excuse. Tortorella is horse****. I don't want to here the Kreider crap either. It's a crap shoot with this team. We never have a legit first rounder that you know is going to turn into something special. This youth movement are a younger **** team. How long are we going to talk about growing? The team has been **** for 85 years with a couple of bright spots. It's going to be funny how quick the playoff package invoice goes from my mail box to the garbage can. I'm dying to throw it out. I can't wait until it gets here.

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03-10-2011, 09:52 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Nubbin View Post
How long are we going to use the terminology 'growing team' and 'building' and 'it's a process'? THere is a difference between Tampa and New york. Tampa Bay had legit stars in the making. Rangers do not. I don't want to here the Dubinsky and Callahan crap. Or the Del Zotto and Staal crap either. These players are average when compared to the rest of the players in the league. THere is nothing growing on this team other than black mold. This team is hopeless. Every year it's the sh**! This excuse and that excuse. Tortorella is horse****. I don't want to here the Kreider crap either. It's a crap shoot with this team. We never have a legit first rounder that you know is going to turn into something special. This youth movement are a younger **** team. How long are we going to talk about growing? The team has been **** for 85 years with a couple of bright spots. It's going to be funny how quick the playoff package invoice goes from my mail box to the garbage can. I'm dying to throw it out. I can't wait until it gets here.
Staal average? Hahaha, good one.

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Old
03-11-2011, 12:13 AM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubbin View Post
How long are we going to use the terminology 'growing team' and 'building' and 'it's a process'? THere is a difference between Tampa and New york. Tampa Bay had legit stars in the making. Rangers do not. I don't want to here the Dubinsky and Callahan crap. Or the Del Zotto and Staal crap either. These players are average when compared to the rest of the players in the league. THere is nothing growing on this team other than black mold. This team is hopeless. Every year it's the sh**! This excuse and that excuse. Tortorella is horse****. I don't want to here the Kreider crap either. It's a crap shoot with this team. We never have a legit first rounder that you know is going to turn into something special. This youth movement are a younger **** team. How long are we going to talk about growing? The team has been **** for 85 years with a couple of bright spots. It's going to be funny how quick the playoff package invoice goes from my mail box to the garbage can. I'm dying to throw it out. I can't wait until it gets here.
EDIT: A line got deleted somehow.

Posters like this make me wish they were Islanders fans. Or Florida, or Columbus, or Atlanta, or Edmonton. You know, the teams that pick top 5-10 for like a decade and still can't get out of the basement. A lot of good picking "elite talent" does them.

We've been drafting well, developing well. We've got a young and talented (yes, talented!) core, and we're getting better every year. The team's average age is 26, we've lost almost 300 man-games to injury, and we're STILL in playoff position, and you have the gall to harp on the process?

Zero patience, zero understanding of what it takes to build a competitive team long-term.


Last edited by Shadowrunner: 03-11-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old
03-11-2011, 06:43 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubbin View Post
How long are we going to use the terminology 'growing team' and 'building' and 'it's a process'? THere is a difference between Tampa and New york. Tampa Bay had legit stars in the making. Rangers do not. I don't want to here the Dubinsky and Callahan crap. Or the Del Zotto and Staal crap either. These players are average when compared to the rest of the players in the league. THere is nothing growing on this team other than black mold. This team is hopeless. Every year it's the sh**! This excuse and that excuse. Tortorella is horse****. I don't want to here the Kreider crap either. It's a crap shoot with this team. We never have a legit first rounder that you know is going to turn into something special. This youth movement are a younger **** team. How long are we going to talk about growing? The team has been **** for 85 years with a couple of bright spots. It's going to be funny how quick the playoff package invoice goes from my mail box to the garbage can. I'm dying to throw it out. I can't wait until it gets here.
Sooo you don't want to hear about perennial 40-50 possibly 60 pt guys an all star shut down D-man (who's adding O to his game) or MDZ (Who no one mentions after this year anyway), gabs getting healthy, unknown FA signings (Shiver), Artie improving offensively, Stepan improving, McD, Sauer, MZA, Boyle, even Wolski? Kreider, thomas, grachev, Vtank, Kundratek, Fasth, Horak, Bourque (I assume you feel none will be 2nd or 1st liners ever).

You don;'t wanna hear any of that but wanna talk about prospects and developing and building? I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense.


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03-11-2011, 07:04 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I look around the league and ask, are there any other coaches that blame bad contracts and injuries when they fail? Just curious......
But they aren't under Sather. Or are you saying Sather has done a job comparable to all the other GM's in the league? I thought you like most of us were operating udner the "Sather sucks he's one of the worst" school of thought. If you think Sather has been average than I could only agree that he's been average lately...like the last year and a half...certainly not enough time to shift blame to the coach yet. Especially not with so many young pieces. I keep blame placed solely at the big guy. If the coach was messing up like he did against Wash then heck yea he deserves blame himself but I just feel he's done real well this year

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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
More revisionist history.

Sather kept us mediocre, how this is not understood by now is just lunacy.

Renney, like Torts, tried to win with what he had, and at the same time afford the right time and space to all the kids making a difference on TODAYS team. He didn't perform miracles, but you make it seem like his tenure here was a waste, when in fact it was exactly what the franchise needed. And THAT is what some fans don't understand, nor have patience for, when its about building a winner.
Anyway the horrendously bad drafting we had in the top 10 to start 00 kept us mediocre more than any jagr trade. i don't understand why people point to Jagr in the face of Montoya, Jessiman, Brendl, Lundmark...that's the true revisionist history there. Sather esponsible for drafting too though so like i said you're right he kept us mediocre but let's not point the finger at jagr cause it was not jagr.


Last edited by JimmyStart*: 03-11-2011 at 11:11 AM.
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Old
03-11-2011, 08:42 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
Anyway the horrendously bad drafting we had in the top 10 to start 00 kept us mediocre more than any jagr trade. i don't understand why people point to Jagr in the face of Montoya, Jessiman, Brendl, Lundmark...that's the true revisionist history there. Sather esponsible for drafting too though so like i said you're right he kept us mediocre but let's not point the finger at jagr cause it was not jagr.

if we got it right on even 2 of our 7 first round picks between 99-04 we'd be looking at an entirly different situation with this team

look at 04...we had 8 picks in the top 100 and all he have to show for it is dubinsky

or 03....you couldnt miss in that first round yet we got Hugh Jessiman

sathers contracts have screwed us over pretty bad, but thats icing on the cake compaired to our draft disasters of the first part of the decade

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03-11-2011, 09:22 AM
  #362
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Even if Rangers miss playoffs, Torts should get Jack Adams nod

Back in September almost every news outlet in North America picked the Rangers to finish in the cellar of the Eastern Conference. The few that believed the Rangers were worthy of a post-season berth, attributed such prophecies to the health and performance of Marian Gaborik.

Fast-forward to present tense and the Rangers have stayed afloat despite Gaborik’s mediocre season, as well an extraordinary amount of man games lost to injury. No one would have guessed that Tortorella could get this sort of output from this team with the setbacks that have been dealt.

Despite an injury bug that has eradicated the Rangers roster, Torts has actually managed to increase our offense. To date, the Rangers have scored 2.74 goals per game, which is up from last year’s 2.6 G/G and way up from Renney’s final stand, which saw only 2.4 goals per game. Impressively, Torts has gotten this output without sacrificing defense. Right now the Rangers have a +29 goal differential, which is the highest it has been in five years.

All nerdy stats aside, the most important thing he and Sully have done this year is move this team in the right direction. Brandon Dubinksy, Ryan Callahan, Artem Anisimov, Brian Boyle, Dan Girardi, Brandon Prust, and Marc Staal have all improved under his tutelage. On top of that, Derek Stepan, Mats Zuccarello, Michael Sauer, and Ryan McDonagh have all had impressive rookie seasons. This is not by accident.

All of which brings me to the Jack Adams Award, which is awarded to the coach "adjudged to have contributed the most to his team's success." Now I am not naïve enough to believe that this award will be given to a coach whose team misses the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean one can’t be nominated. Matter of fact, if the Rangers and Devils miss the playoffs, I still think both Torts and Lemaire should be finalists.

As for who should win…that I will let play itself out over the next few months. No matter how things shake out though, John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.

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03-11-2011, 10:52 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
Back in September almost every news outlet in North America picked the Rangers to finish in the cellar of the Eastern Conference. The few that believed the Rangers were worthy of a post-season berth, attributed such prophecies to the health and performance of Marian Gaborik.

Fast-forward to present tense and the Rangers have stayed afloat despite Gaborik’s mediocre season, as well an extraordinary amount of man games lost to injury. No one would have guessed that Tortorella could get this sort of output from this team with the setbacks that have been dealt.

Despite an injury bug that has eradicated the Rangers roster, Torts has actually managed to increase our offense. To date, the Rangers have scored 2.74 goals per game, which is up from last year’s 2.6 G/G and way up from Renney’s final stand, which saw only 2.4 goals per game. Impressively, Torts has gotten this output without sacrificing defense. Right now the Rangers have a +29 goal differential, which is the highest it has been in five years.

All nerdy stats aside, the most important thing he and Sully have done this year is move this team in the right direction. Brandon Dubinksy, Ryan Callahan, Artem Anisimov, Brian Boyle, Dan Girardi, Brandon Prust, and Marc Staal have all improved under his tutelage. On top of that, Derek Stepan, Mats Zuccarello, Michael Sauer, and Ryan McDonagh have all had impressive rookie seasons. This is not by accident.

All of which brings me to the Jack Adams Award, which is awarded to the coach "adjudged to have contributed the most to his team's success." Now I am not naïve enough to believe that this award will be given to a coach whose team misses the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean one can’t be nominated. Matter of fact, if the Rangers and Devils miss the playoffs, I still think both Torts and Lemaire should be finalists.

As for who should win…that I will let play itself out over the next few months. No matter how things shake out though, John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.
Great post. Right amount of stats and analysis.

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03-11-2011, 11:09 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
if we got it right on even 2 of our 7 first round picks between 99-04 we'd be looking at an entirly different situation with this team

look at 04...we had 8 picks in the top 100 and all he have to show for it is dubinsky

or 03....you couldnt miss in that first round yet we got Hugh Jessiman

sathers contracts have screwed us over pretty bad, but thats icing on the cake compaired to our draft disasters of the first part of the decade
haha yup that's what I was saying. Those absolute disasters ESPECIALLY given that they were early in the 1st round are imo why we struggle and had to go through this transition year. If all those guys had worked out as they were suppossed to (Or better yet had they drafted the right guys to begin with) we'd have one helluva team. But that's the problem with the do bad and tank theory...aside from the 1 overall (And even that's no guarantee) most of those a re a crap shoot year to year from 3-8 with a lot of em not working out but teams almost have to take them b/c of the high talent or physical gifts.

Anyway it's a tank debate at this point but while I definitely agree Sather has been horrible overall it's more than just letting Jagr keep us from a low pick.

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03-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
Back in September almost every news outlet in North America picked the Rangers to finish in the cellar of the Eastern Conference. The few that believed the Rangers were worthy of a post-season berth, attributed such prophecies to the health and performance of Marian Gaborik.

Fast-forward to present tense and the Rangers have stayed afloat despite Gaborik’s mediocre season, as well an extraordinary amount of man games lost to injury. No one would have guessed that Tortorella could get this sort of output from this team with the setbacks that have been dealt.

Despite an injury bug that has eradicated the Rangers roster, Torts has actually managed to increase our offense. To date, the Rangers have scored 2.74 goals per game, which is up from last year’s 2.6 G/G and way up from Renney’s final stand, which saw only 2.4 goals per game. Impressively, Torts has gotten this output without sacrificing defense. Right now the Rangers have a +29 goal differential, which is the highest it has been in five years.

All nerdy stats aside, the most important thing he and Sully have done this year is move this team in the right direction. Brandon Dubinksy, Ryan Callahan, Artem Anisimov, Brian Boyle, Dan Girardi, Brandon Prust, and Marc Staal have all improved under his tutelage. On top of that, Derek Stepan, Mats Zuccarello, Michael Sauer, and Ryan McDonagh have all had impressive rookie seasons. This is not by accident.

All of which brings me to the Jack Adams Award, which is awarded to the coach "adjudged to have contributed the most to his team's success." Now I am not naïve enough to believe that this award will be given to a coach whose team misses the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean one can’t be nominated. Matter of fact, if the Rangers and Devils miss the playoffs, I still think both Torts and Lemaire should be finalists.

As for who should win…that I will let play itself out over the next few months. No matter how things shake out though, John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.
Add another from me.

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03-11-2011, 11:51 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
Back in September almost every news outlet in North America picked the Rangers to finish in the cellar of the Eastern Conference. The few that believed the Rangers were worthy of a post-season berth, attributed such prophecies to the health and performance of Marian Gaborik.

Fast-forward to present tense and the Rangers have stayed afloat despite Gaborik’s mediocre season, as well an extraordinary amount of man games lost to injury. No one would have guessed that Tortorella could get this sort of output from this team with the setbacks that have been dealt.

Despite an injury bug that has eradicated the Rangers roster, Torts has actually managed to increase our offense. To date, the Rangers have scored 2.74 goals per game, which is up from last year’s 2.6 G/G and way up from Renney’s final stand, which saw only 2.4 goals per game. Impressively, Torts has gotten this output without sacrificing defense. Right now the Rangers have a +29 goal differential, which is the highest it has been in five years.

All nerdy stats aside, the most important thing he and Sully have done this year is move this team in the right direction. Brandon Dubinksy, Ryan Callahan, Artem Anisimov, Brian Boyle, Dan Girardi, Brandon Prust, and Marc Staal have all improved under his tutelage. On top of that, Derek Stepan, Mats Zuccarello, Michael Sauer, and Ryan McDonagh have all had impressive rookie seasons. This is not by accident.

All of which brings me to the Jack Adams Award, which is awarded to the coach "adjudged to have contributed the most to his team's success." Now I am not naïve enough to believe that this award will be given to a coach whose team misses the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean one can’t be nominated. Matter of fact, if the Rangers and Devils miss the playoffs, I still think both Torts and Lemaire should be finalists.

As for who should win…that I will let play itself out over the next few months. No matter how things shake out though, John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.
nice post and nice blog...i just discovered it after attempting to look into who the hell this 15 post mystery man is that infuzed some logic into the NYR hf boards

HF should have rep points for posts like this

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03-11-2011, 12:09 PM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.
Don' want to add another full quote and don't want to say he is a bad coach.
But there are some guys out there who have no superstar like Gaborik and no goalie like Hendrik and work for organisations that don't spend close to the cap and still get their results.

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03-11-2011, 12:11 PM
  #368
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Don' want to add another full quote and don't want to say he is a bad coach.
But there are some guys out there who have no superstar like Gaborik and no goalie like Hendrik and work for organisations that don't spend close to the cap and still get their results.
Which coaches for which teams?

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03-11-2011, 12:16 PM
  #369
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Which coaches for which teams?
i second this....which coach has had a younger less experienced less depleted roster and is doing more?

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03-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #370
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How long are we going to use the terminology 'growing team' and 'building' and 'it's a process'? THere is a difference between Tampa and New york. Tampa Bay had legit stars in the making. Rangers do not. I don't want to here the Dubinsky and Callahan crap. Or the Del Zotto and Staal crap either. These players are average when compared to the rest of the players in the league. THere is nothing growing on this team other than black mold. This team is hopeless. Every year it's the sh**! This excuse and that excuse. Tortorella is horse****. I don't want to here the Kreider crap either. It's a crap shoot with this team. We never have a legit first rounder that you know is going to turn into something special. This youth movement are a younger **** team. How long are we going to talk about growing? The team has been **** for 85 years with a couple of bright spots. It's going to be funny how quick the playoff package invoice goes from my mail box to the garbage can. I'm dying to throw it out. I can't wait until it gets here.
This guy is right. We might be loosing games and will probably miss the playoffs, but atleast we have Chris Krieder and his dominant high school hockey stats!

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03-11-2011, 12:56 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
Back in September almost every news outlet in North America picked the Rangers to finish in the cellar of the Eastern Conference. The few that believed the Rangers were worthy of a post-season berth, attributed such prophecies to the health and performance of Marian Gaborik.

Fast-forward to present tense and the Rangers have stayed afloat despite Gaborik’s mediocre season, as well an extraordinary amount of man games lost to injury. No one would have guessed that Tortorella could get this sort of output from this team with the setbacks that have been dealt.
While you correct about September, the present tense is absolutely irrelevant. The supposition in the question was not made for present tense, but for playoff time when Sept prophecies would turn out to be true. You could bring some past tense, 50 game mark for instance , where Rangers were even at better position in standings. That part of post is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
Despite an injury bug that has eradicated the Rangers roster, Torts has actually managed to increase our offense. To date, the Rangers have scored 2.74 goals per game, which is up from last year’s 2.6 G/G and way up from Renney’s final stand, which saw only 2.4 goals per game. Impressively, Torts has gotten this output without sacrificing defense. Right now the Rangers have a +29 goal differential, which is the highest it has been in five years.
Rangers roster was not eradicated simply because we didn't have so much to loose to injuries. We are not PIT or WAS to complain, as you know. As for scoring, it simply couldn't go any more down. The .2 G/g difference is minuscule, scoring didn't change much, while expectations were such as Torts will make an offensive high scoring team out of defence first Rangers. One may not blame Torts for not scoring more given his roster, but he certainly doesn't deserves much of the credit. Goal differential is up due to some minor increase in scoring, but the credit should go to Lundqvist who played one of his best seasons before getting average and below in Feb. As you know, Head coach gets no credit nor blame for goaltender performance as it is out of his scope of work. This part of post is weak.

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Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
All nerdy stats aside, the most important thing he and Sully have done this year is move this team in the right direction. Brandon Dubinksy, Ryan Callahan, Artem Anisimov, Brian Boyle, Dan Girardi, Brandon Prust, and Marc Staal have all improved under his tutelage. On top of that, Derek Stepan, Mats Zuccarello, Michael Sauer, and Ryan McDonagh have all had impressive rookie seasons. This is not by accident.
That is correct. Yet, the result of non playoffs for the second year outweighs that. I wouldn't fight my nail and tooth for that last statement, so I give that part of the post to you. If you think development is more important than playoffs, I'd just disagree and leave it there. That is because I have always been taught that process cannot be primary to results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Suit View Post
All of which brings me to the Jack Adams Award, which is awarded to the coach "adjudged to have contributed the most to his team's success." Now I am not naïve enough to believe that this award will be given to a coach whose team misses the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean one can’t be nominated. Matter of fact, if the Rangers and Devils miss the playoffs, I still think both Torts and Lemaire should be finalists.

As for who should win…that I will let play itself out over the next few months. No matter how things shake out though, John Tortorella at least deserves to be in the conversation.
This is not as absurd as it looks. Torts could be nominated, IMO. That doesn't, however mean that he should not be fired if we are out of playoffs, on the other hand. That was the subject. Adams is a professional award, while firing and hiring is business related. There are many instances known to prove the notion that those may not be correlated.


Last edited by 94now: 03-11-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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03-11-2011, 01:22 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i still think were headed in the right direction. imho were a lot closer to a stanley cup competing team now than we have been since we lost to the Sabres in the playoffs. what we need is to move some of our more redundant pieces and bring in true impact players with them.
Why would replacing an average coach for a better one automatically mean that we would be moving in a different direction? Maybe we will still be going in the right direction, but with greater speed.

Tortorella is not even close to coach of the year this season. That honor will likely go to Lemaire.

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03-11-2011, 03:20 PM
  #373
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What most posters on here seem to not grasp is the concept of how the Rangers are going about their rebuild. While I dont drink the koolaid, i am optimistic about this team. The Rangers are going about rebuilding the right way, Some posters in here keep thinking about the wheeling and dealing and free spending ways of the Pre-Lockout Thinking. This isn't the team that we had in 1994, where even if we didn't make those trades closer to the deadline, we probably still would have gone far. This team is not set up to be successful and add those final 'pieces' to help us go even further in the playoffs. I am tired of being a constant 'bubble' team for the playoffs year in and year out. I do want that dominating team that we haven't seen in years. But i also realize that the process of rebuilding IS NOT complete yet.

Glen Sather and Neil Smith both proved that signing free agents to ridiculous contracts and trading away young assets for older stars does not work. That will never work in todays game, especially with the average age in the league constantly getting younger. No longer can we go out and sign guys to contracts they cant and wont live up to. The only time you do that is if its a bona fide free agent who is still in his prime (IE Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Briere)

Now another thing everyone needs to realize. This rebuild started the year of the lockout. As of right now since the 2004 draft, we have been able to churn out players who are the heart and soul of this Ranger team today as in Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Anisimov, Stepan, Del Zotto, Sauer. We supplemented these guys by picking up whether through trade or undrafted free agency, Zuccs, Boyle, Girardi, McDonagh, and Prust. Now given, only one of those have proven to be an all-star talent as of today. But this is the type of roster that will be able to produce playing behind guys like Lundqvist, Gaborik and another proven star. If we are able to pick up Richards and get him here cheaper then what Toronto can offer him, we should be set.

And even after that core of guys, we have players still coming up. Grachev is taking a little longer then hoped to develop, but he has still made progress. I would not call hiim a bust yet as he was just a third round pick. Christian Thomas has been lighting it up in juniors this past year. He most likely wont make the team next season because of his size, but you never do know until he gets demoted. Although Krieder has not 'dominated' the college game yet, i would not look as much into it as others do. He is playing on a stacked team in BC, in which York seems to give his seniors more ice time then his younger players. Krieder is developing just fine although he really does need to take the next step and begin his professional career. Personally i think he needs atleast a half of a season with the Whale to start adjusting to the speed and then we can bring him up and see what he can do. There are others but i'm at work and cant really type too much more.

This process has been slow, but us as fans need to realize that we cant run before we walk just like we cant walk before we crawl. This team is taking its time to get better, but i honestly dont think we are that far off from being a more solid team. Like i said, some of our key prospects haven't even come up yet.

Also in response to some posters who are VERY IMPATIENT about this whole ordeal, we have proven that we can't go out and sign superstars and expect to win a cup. We have tried it and it failed, The Lakers failed when they brought in Gary Payton and Karl Malone. The Avalanche failed when Selanne and Kariya signed there. All-Star teams DONT win Stanley Cups unless they play in a system that brings out there games the best.

"Its not about having the Best players, Its about having the RIGHT players"
-Herb Brooks

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03-11-2011, 03:44 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
What most posters on here seem to not grasp is the concept of how the Rangers are going about their rebuild. While I dont drink the koolaid, i am optimistic about this team. The Rangers are going about rebuilding the right way, Some posters in here keep thinking about the wheeling and dealing and free spending ways of the Pre-Lockout Thinking. This isn't the team that we had in 1994, where even if we didn't make those trades closer to the deadline, we probably still would have gone far. This team is not set up to be successful and add those final 'pieces' to help us go even further in the playoffs. I am tired of being a constant 'bubble' team for the playoffs year in and year out. I do want that dominating team that we haven't seen in years. But i also realize that the process of rebuilding IS NOT complete yet.

Glen Sather and Neil Smith both proved that signing free agents to ridiculous contracts and trading away young assets for older stars does not work. That will never work in todays game, especially with the average age in the league constantly getting younger. No longer can we go out and sign guys to contracts they cant and wont live up to. The only time you do that is if its a bona fide free agent who is still in his prime (IE Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Briere)

Now another thing everyone needs to realize. This rebuild started the year of the lockout. As of right now since the 2004 draft, we have been able to churn out players who are the heart and soul of this Ranger team today as in Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Anisimov, Stepan, Del Zotto, Sauer. We supplemented these guys by picking up whether through trade or undrafted free agency, Zuccs, Boyle, Girardi, McDonagh, and Prust. Now given, only one of those have proven to be an all-star talent as of today. But this is the type of roster that will be able to produce playing behind guys like Lundqvist, Gaborik and another proven star. If we are able to pick up Richards and get him here cheaper then what Toronto can offer him, we should be set.

And even after that core of guys, we have players still coming up. Grachev is taking a little longer then hoped to develop, but he has still made progress. I would not call hiim a bust yet as he was just a third round pick. Christian Thomas has been lighting it up in juniors this past year. He most likely wont make the team next season because of his size, but you never do know until he gets demoted. Although Krieder has not 'dominated' the college game yet, i would not look as much into it as others do. He is playing on a stacked team in BC, in which York seems to give his seniors more ice time then his younger players. Krieder is developing just fine although he really does need to take the next step and begin his professional career. Personally i think he needs atleast a half of a season with the Whale to start adjusting to the speed and then we can bring him up and see what he can do. There are others but i'm at work and cant really type too much more.

This process has been slow, but us as fans need to realize that we cant run before we walk just like we cant walk before we crawl. This team is taking its time to get better, but i honestly dont think we are that far off from being a more solid team. Like i said, some of our key prospects haven't even come up yet.

Also in response to some posters who are VERY IMPATIENT about this whole ordeal, we have proven that we can't go out and sign superstars and expect to win a cup. We have tried it and it failed, The Lakers failed when they brought in Gary Payton and Karl Malone. The Avalanche failed when Selanne and Kariya signed there. All-Star teams DONT win Stanley Cups unless they play in a system that brings out there games the best.

"Its not about having the Best players, Its about having the RIGHT players"
-Herb Brooks
I honestly don't think there's a lot of what you said that people don't get.

My only nit would be I don't know if I can say they're rebuilding the right way. The unwillingness to take one step back to take two steps forward the way teams like the Flyers and Bruins did has slowed the rebuild process. That, and their success rate in the first round, even after the '03 disaster, has been pretty bad and they've gotten very little out of those picks (Montoya, Korpikoski, Sanguinetti aren't with the organization and there's very little to show for them and the Cherepanov tragedy) going off of when you say the rebuild started.

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03-11-2011, 04:35 PM
  #375
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really use goal differential as a reason why Torts should be a Jack Adams candidate?

My goodness. Remind me again when winning 6-0 or 7-0 meant more points in the standings than winning 2-1?

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