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Old
03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
What if they give him an 8 year contract structured liked
Year 1-10m NMC
Year 2-10m NMC
Year 3-8m NMC
Year 4-8m NMC
Year 5-5m Limited NTC
Year 6-4m Limited NTC
Year 7-2m
Year 8-1m

48/8 6m cap hit. Heavily front loaded, but I don't think the contract does anything to suggest cap circumvention.
10 in the first year, 1 in the last year? I say it does and I'm not about to take the risk that the Debbies took for Kovy.

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03-10-2011, 07:27 PM
  #152
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10 in the first year, 1 in the last year? I say it does and I'm not about to take the risk that the Debbies took for Kovy.
Considering there is no significant drops year to year... IIRC, Kovalchuk was down to 500k per year for his final 3-4 years which was the big problem. Regardless chang the first two years at 10 to 9 and the last from 1 to 2. Still works.

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03-11-2011, 06:38 AM
  #153
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Richards is not going to get a 7-8 year contract like some posters are suggesting, at least not from the Rangers. He will get a 5 year offer with a cap hit of 6.5 million from the Rangers, maybe and just maybe 7 million if Drury retires and we have some more room. Either way he is not as young as Kovy and therefore won't get the type of years Kovy wanted and got. The longest deal I can see Richards signing anywhere would be 7 years as he will be 31 when he signs a new deal and I can't see there being much desire to lock him up for an 8 year deal which would take him until he is 39 years old.

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03-11-2011, 06:56 AM
  #154
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When did this GM all the sudden gain restraint when it comes to big name free agents?

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03-11-2011, 07:37 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBlueshirts View Post
I believe it was reported Sather offer Kovalchuk a 2 year deal worth 15 mill. Could be wrong about that one.

I think it is a given that Sather will go hard after Richards, I would be OK with a deal longer than 5 years ONLY if after the 5 years their is not a NMC.
2 years 15 mil on Kovie was a huge amount of restraint. 7.5? Almost no risk since it's a 2 year deal? I count that as restraint if that's true. He loses restraint when he gets in bidding wars like for Redden.

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I don't think not spending money you don't have is an indication of restraint.
Problem is we have to see if he can restrain himself WITH cash when he actually has it haha. That's prob what you meant.

Were you just repeating yourself there for clarity? B/c I did imply that exact same thing. I even said that's prob what you meant... If he wanted to he could have found a way to go after Kovie there was some money there. DOn't re sign/sing EC, prospal, MZA, Frolov, Boogard. Buyouts. That's enough for Kovie.


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Old
03-11-2011, 07:48 AM
  #156
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LOL WHAT!? Kovalchuk?

Problem is we have to see if he can restrain himself WITH cash when he actually has it haha. That's prob what you meant.
I believe it was reported Sather offer Kovalchuk a 2 year deal worth 15 mill. Could be wrong about that one.

I think it is a given that Sather will go hard after Richards, I would be OK with a deal longer than 5 years ONLY if after the 5 years their is not a NMC.

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03-11-2011, 09:03 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
LOL WHAT!? Kovalchuk?

Problem is we have to see if he can restrain himself WITH cash when he actually has it haha. That's prob what you meant.
I don't think not spending money you don't have is an indication of restraint.

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03-11-2011, 09:51 AM
  #158
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While I agree that Dru will probably retire after this season and forgo any hopes of resurrecting a career that has clearly fallen below his expectations of being a competitive player, however if he wants that last dance I believe the NYR's buy him out and let him test the market on signing with another team. One way or another I believe that he won't be here next year.

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Old
03-11-2011, 10:20 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think not spending money you don't have is an indication of restraint.
Some combination of not signing Frolov, Prospal, Boogaard or trading Roszival would have left him with plenty of cap room to sign Kovalchuk, if he was so inclined.

In all the years of cap hell, how many times has Sather missed out on someone he actually wanted to acquire?

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03-11-2011, 10:22 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Some combination of not signing Frolov, Prospal, Boogaard or trading Roszival would have left him with plenty of cap room to sign Kovalchuk, if he was so inclined.

In all the years of cap hell, how many times has Sather missed out on someone he actually wanted to acquire?
08-09 Hossa he wanted, the year he signed a one year deal with the Red Wings. Hossa was our plan one, Jagr was our plan two, Nazzy became our plan 3.

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03-11-2011, 10:28 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
08-09 Hossa he wanted, the year he signed a one year deal with the Red Wings. Hossa was our plan one, Jagr was our plan two, Nazzy became our plan 3.
Hossa gave up a long term deal to try and win a cup. Not exactly being out bid.

And there is no way Jagr was plan 2. They signed Naslund the day after Hossa signed, which was two days after Free Agency started. The team basically walked away from Jagr.

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03-11-2011, 10:40 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Some combination of not signing Frolov, Prospal, Boogaard or trading Roszival would have left him with plenty of cap room to sign Kovalchuk, if he was so inclined.

In all the years of cap hell, how many times has Sather missed out on someone he actually wanted to acquire?
Trading Rozsival and taking no salary back. How was that really going to happen? His hands were tied. I don't credit him for that.

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03-11-2011, 11:01 AM
  #163
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Hossa gave up a long term deal to try and win a cup. Not exactly being out bid.
For me, Hossa embodies why it's a bad idea to count on these prolific UFA's on the back side of their careers to lead the way.

A year later, add Hossa to an already formidable Hawks team and he gets that Cup.

Think about how things might have panned out if Sather was there with a long term contract on the back of a 40 goal season and Hossa comes to NYR instead of CHI. If the Rangers couldn't get into the playoffs with Gabby posting 86 points, people would be calling for Hossa's head at 51 points, if he could have even piled up that many on a significantly worse team.

Personally, I just don't think there's enough prime hockey left in Richards to even consider a long term deal. Not for THIS team.

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Old
03-11-2011, 11:12 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Trading Rozsival and taking no salary back. How was that really going to happen? His hands were tied. I don't credit him for that.
Pretty easily if he wanted do. Rozsival is only valueless on this board. If Sather wanted to he could have give him away for free. Or traded for a guy like Wolski who could then be traded again or buried in the minors. And that would be worst case scenario.

Not that he would have need to do any of that. Frolov, Prospal and Boogaard combined for over 7 Million in cap space. A few small moves would have been more than enough. Certainly less than the major ones he made to get Gaborik.

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Old
03-11-2011, 11:13 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Pretty easily if he wanted do. Rozsival is only valueless on this board. If Sather wanted to he could have give him away for free. Or traded for a guy like Wolski who could then be traded again or buried in the minors. And that would be worst case scenario.

Not that he would have need to do any of that. Frolov, Prospal and Boogaard combined for over 7 Million in cap space. A few small moves would have been more than enough. Certainly less than the major ones he made to get Gaborik.
Lot's of hyperbole here.

The Boogaard deal shows that it's the S.O.S. Same Old Sather.

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03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
For me, Hossa embodies why it's a bad idea to count on these prolific UFA's on the back side of their careers to lead the way.

A year later, add Hossa to an already formidable Hawks team and he gets that Cup.

Think about how things might have panned out if Sather was there with a long term contract on the back of a 40 goal season and Hossa comes to NYR instead of CHI. If the Rangers couldn't get into the playoffs with Gabby posting 86 points, people would be calling for Hossa's head at 51 points, if he could have even piled up that many on a significantly worse team.

Personally, I just don't think there's enough prime hockey left in Richards to even consider a long term deal. Not for THIS team.
While I would argue that Detroit was good enough that Hossa wouldn't necessarily be leading the way, I completely agree with the sentiment.

You see basically 3 types of serious UFA activity.

1) Sign UFAs to fill EVERY hole, or the Rangers from the mid/late 90's to just after the lockout.

2) Sign UFAs to fill MAJOR holes, or what the Rangers have been lately

3) Sign UFAs to fill SMALL holes, or more specifically to add depth to a team thats core is already in place.

It would be nice to think one day we will be at #3. But with Sather and this organization, who knows.

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03-11-2011, 11:29 AM
  #167
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Personally, I just don't think there's enough prime hockey left in Richards to even consider a long term deal. Not for THIS team.
This is certainly a big concern. A lot of people say that 32 or 33 isn't that old for a hockey player...but is he really going to still be putting up points at an elite level 2 or 3 years from now? And that's only years 2 and 3 of any deal...I fear that even a 5 year deal is pushing it.

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03-11-2011, 11:30 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Lot's of hyperbole here.

The Boogaard deal shows that it's the S.O.S. Same Old Sather.
Hyperbole? My first paragraph is exactly what any GM could have done, easily, if they just wanted to rid themselves of Rosie. He almost certainly could have been had for some sort of crappy draft pick. Or a cheaper player who could then be traded for a crappy draft pick or waived. And like I said, that would be worst case scenario. Despite the Rosie hate on this board he has much more value than that.

But again, none of that had to happen. Just do not sign our spare part UFAs. Make some minor moves. It would have taken very little effort. Certainly less effort than it took to sign Gaborik.

Believe what you want, but the Rangers could have easily made a move at Kovie if they wanted to.

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03-11-2011, 11:47 AM
  #169
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While I would argue that Detroit was good enough that Hossa wouldn't necessarily be leading the way, I completely agree with the sentiment.
You woulda thought it was a slam dunk to add a 40 goal man to Datsyuk and Zetterberg, right?

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This is certainly a big concern. A lot of people say that 32 or 33 isn't that old for a hockey player...but is he really going to still be putting up points at an elite level 2 or 3 years from now? And that's only years 2 and 3 of any deal...I fear that even a 5 year deal is pushing it.
In "today's" game, I think it takes a special player to be a force majeure into his late 30's. Jagr is a great example. Daniel Alfredsson. I think Kovalchuk probably ends up in the league too. Brad Richards? Great player, don't get me wrong, but I just don't put him in that company.

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03-11-2011, 11:55 AM
  #170
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You woulda thought it was a slam dunk to add a 40 goal man to Datsyuk and Zetterberg, right?
Certainly.

Though to be fair it is not like the move was necessarily a failure. The team and Hossa had a fantastic regular seasons and then went to game 7 of the SC finals. I doubt there are too many Wings fans that regret the signing.

As I said, I agree with your original point.

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03-11-2011, 12:03 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
While I would argue that Detroit was good enough that Hossa wouldn't necessarily be leading the way, I completely agree with the sentiment.

You see basically 3 types of serious UFA activity.

1) Sign UFAs to fill EVERY hole, or the Rangers from the mid/late 90's to just after the lockout.

2) Sign UFAs to fill MAJOR holes, or what the Rangers have been lately

3) Sign UFAs to fill SMALL holes, or more specifically to add depth to a team thats core is already in place.

It would be nice to think one day we will be at #3. But with Sather and this organization, who knows.
IF you see the way the team is developing from within, talks about it's young core, refuses to trade it, and how Clarke and Shoeny have been able to develop it in ways that others haven't been able to in the past, you can see how we're approaching phase 3. The inability of others to set that foundation of core development forces the organization to stay in phases 1 and 2.

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03-11-2011, 12:06 PM
  #172
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IF you see the way the team is developing from within, talks about it's young core, refuses to trade it, and how Clarke and Shoeny have been able to develop it in ways that others haven't been able to in the past, you can see how we're approaching phase 3. The inability of others to set that foundation of core development forces the organization to stay in phases 1 and 2.
Agreed.

I just have seen this organization falter so many times that it is impossible to be too optimistic.

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03-11-2011, 12:22 PM
  #173
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Lot's of hyperbole here.

The Boogaard deal shows that it's the S.O.S. Same Old Sather.
Think your passion or dislike is making you a little over the top here. Point is he coulda gone after a perenial 80 pt guy and given him a lengthy expensive contract if he wanted to and didn't. He might absolutely SUCK at restraint. You could argue he wasted the money on EC, Fro, etc and that he shoulda spent it on Kovie so by trying to restrain himself he just f***ed up in a different way...but then again he didn't give out a 7+ year 100 mil deal he just signed a few 1-2 mil deals for 1-2 years which to me is restraint.

Maybe he's still a bad GM and when he gets money as we both said we'll see what he does but he did finally show SOME restraint. You could argue it was miniscule and the future he may lose it again and I agree with that but he did show SOME.

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03-11-2011, 12:30 PM
  #174
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Though to be fair it is not like the move was necessarily a failure. The team and Hossa had a fantastic regular seasons and then went to game 7 of the SC finals. I doubt there are too many Wings fans that regret the signing.
Probably more a credit to the unstoppable force that was the Penguins.

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Old
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
  #175
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Question, though- why don't you consider Richards a force? Kovalchuk relies much more on his speed and wrister to be effective, Jagr was a power forward who did the same thing- why won't one of the most unsung playmakers of this decade who's put up 90 points twice be able to play till 35? Not trying to attack you, just wondering/ playing devils advocate.

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