HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Spector's Hockey: Flyers Tight Cap Space for 2011-12

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-11-2011, 02:00 PM
  #26
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Of all the players on the team, these are three of the least likeliest to be moved.

It's way too early to start worrying about this. Let's see how the playoffs play out. Leino might suck.

We might win, and Timonen and Briere decide to retire champs - then we'd have $13 million in cap room to play with. Or Briere might decide he wants to live in Ottawa to keep his kids near his family. Or any number of other scenarios.
Carle and Coburn are, by far and away, the most likely to not be with the team next year (of the folks with contracts for next year).

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 02:48 PM
  #27
phillyfanatic
Registered User
 
phillyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carle and Coburn are, by far and away, the most likely to not be with the team next year (of the folks with contracts for next year).
By far and away, meaning, in your opinion. I agree, but - the Flyers have never even hinted on moving Coburn or Carle. Larry44's point is valid.....who knows? I will say this - you DON'T!

phillyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 02:56 PM
  #28
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
By far and away, meaning, in your opinion. I agree, but - the Flyers have never even hinted on moving Coburn or Carle. Larry44's point is valid.....who knows? I will say this - you DON'T!
That's true, but if the Flyers feel salary needs to be moved, that is where they will look. We aren't speaking in definitives. No one is saying they are trying or have tried to move thm. We are talking about how "likely" someone is to move. So if the Flyers need to move someone (presumably for cap space) it would "likely" be them.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:00 PM
  #29
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
It all depends on how the players perform in the playoffs. The ones who play well will be welcomed back and the ones who crumble will be shown the door.
And if we win the cup, then who the **** cares?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carle and Coburn are, by far and away, the most likely to not be with the team next year (of the folks with contracts for next year).
I don't see why our #5 D who makes $4M will be given preference to our #3 and #4 Ds who make <$3.5M.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:04 PM
  #30
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
I don't see why our #5 D who makes $4M will be given preference to our #3 and #4 Ds who make <$3.5M.
Because he's better than both of 'em.

Carle is better offensively, but isn't close defensively... Coburn and Meszaros are pretty similar defensively (would say Meszaros has been a bit more reliable), but Meszaros brings a bit more offensively.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:11 PM
  #31
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because he's better than both of 'em.

Carle is better offensively, but isn't close defensively... Coburn and Meszaros are pretty similar defensively (would say Meszaros has been a bit more reliable), but Meszaros brings a bit more offensively.
Even if that's your opinion, Laviolette gives Coburn and Carle more ice time and tougher match-ups. I don't get how you conclude that the two of them are, far and away, more likely to be traded than Meszaros.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:12 PM
  #32
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
By far and away, meaning, in your opinion. I agree, but - the Flyers have never even hinted on moving Coburn or Carle. Larry44's point is valid.....who knows? I will say this - you DON'T!
It's presumed that if I say it, then it's my opinion. However, lets break it down a bit further to address the validity of Larry44's statement, which was, and I quote:

Quote:
Of all the players on the team, these are three of the least likeliest to be moved.
He was specifically referencing Hartnell, Carle, and Coburn.

There is absolutely nothing valid about Larry44s statement. Richards, Carter, and Giroux, of course, are the least likeliest to be moved.... That's without going through a host of other players that are unlikely to be moved (for various reasons). What happens when you get to the bottom of the likeliest to be moved? You arrive at a few different players, and Carle and Coburn are front and center and well out there given both their salaries and the fact that they're expiring deals.

What Larry44 said was completely devoid of validity.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:14 PM
  #33
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Meszaros is the only one out of the 3 of them that can play both ends of the ice.

Coburn sucks offensively, Carle sucks defensively/physically

I would trade Carle for a cheaper 3rd pairing guy and roll:

Pronger-Coburn
Timonen-Meszaros
Trade Return- UFA/Bartuls/ O"Donnell

I think Coburn could learn a lot playing with Pronger and his legs could really work well with Pronger. Meszaros's physical game could benefit Timonen

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:17 PM
  #34
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Even if that's your opinion, Laviolette gives Coburn and Carle more ice time and tougher match-ups. I don't get how you conclude that the two of them are, far and away, more likely to be traded than Meszaros.
Coburn and Carle need to be babysat. They play with the best babysitters on the team.

Coburn also only plays 17 more s. per game than Meszaros... and Carle and Coburn's partner is determining the difficulty of their matchups, not the other way around. (Carle and Coburn are leading the team in ES minutes for the D, largely because one of 'em is always fresh after a special teams situation).

Meszaros also takes a regular PP and PK shift, which neither Carle or Coburn do (Carle takes regular PP shifts, but not PK, and the opposite is true of Coburn).

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:37 PM
  #35
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Coburn and Carle need to be babysat. They play with the best babysitters on the team.

Coburn also only plays 17 more s. per game than Meszaros... and Carle and Coburn's partner is determining the difficulty of their matchups, not the other way around. (Carle and Coburn are leading the team in ES minutes for the D, largely because one of 'em is always fresh after a special teams situation).

Meszaros also takes a regular PP and PK shift, which neither Carle or Coburn do (Carle takes regular PP shifts, but not PK, and the opposite is true of Coburn).
That's really disingenuous. Carle and Coburn play on those pairings because they compliment their partners well. Especially in the case of Coburn, he's every bit as important defensively for that pairing as Timonen.

Meszaros is nice for second unit special teams, but even strength play is more important. Laviolette plays him on the third pairing because he often gets outmatched defensively.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:47 PM
  #36
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
That's really disingenuous. Carle and Coburn play on those pairings because they compliment their partners well. Especially in the case of Coburn, he's every bit as important defensively for that pairing as Timonen.
Nothing disingenuous about it... Coburn has been a disaster away from Timonen here. Carle certainly plays well enough with Pronger, but he's the worst defensive D on this team (by a significant margin this year).

Quote:
Meszaros is nice for second unit special teams, but even strength play is more important. Laviolette plays him on the third pairing because he often gets outmatched defensively.
If getting outmatched defensively is the primary variable in playing on the third pairing, then Carle would be there.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 03:50 PM
  #37
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
That's really disingenuous. Carle and Coburn play on those pairings because they compliment their partners well. Especially in the case of Coburn, he's every bit as important defensively for that pairing as Timonen.

Meszaros is nice for second unit special teams, but even strength play is more important. Laviolette plays him on the third pairing because he often gets outmatched defensively.
Even if I entirely agreed with your points, do you REALLY believe Coburn and Carle aren't getting those minutes because their partners happen to be Kimmo Timonen and Chris MF'ing Pronger?

Kimmo and Pronger dictate their minutes, Coburn and Carle are along for the ride.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 07:23 PM
  #38
usahockey22flyers
Classic Coburn...
 
usahockey22flyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,326
vCash: 500
My ideal fourth line next season is Powe-Betts-Nodl

Powe means a lot to this team.

usahockey22flyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 07:42 PM
  #39
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nothing disingenuous about it... Coburn has been a disaster away from Timonen here. Carle certainly plays well enough with Pronger, but he's the worst defensive D on this team (by a significant margin this year).



If getting outmatched defensively is the primary variable in playing on the third pairing, then Carle would be there.
Not only does Coburn almost always play with Timonen, but that's again very disingenuous (and untrue, since Coburn played well on third pairing and with Hatcher). Coburn is playing well with Timonen because Coburn is playing well. He's using his size, reach and skating to wear down top lines. He has found himself as a smooth skating defensive D. It's also unfair to take into account older seasons when evaluating Coburn but not Meszaros.

Carle has also been playing very well even strength this season, despite people ing. There's a reason he's leading the Flyers in +/- and has the third most even strength points in the league for defensemen. He's been moving the puck well and making smart decisions. I've been really critical of Carle in the past, but he's been fine.

In all honesty, I'd like the Flyers to keep all 5 of their main D, and I think they well. I just think it's really stupid to claim that Coburn and Carle are the players on the Flyers most likely to be traded "by far".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Even if I entirely agreed with your points, do you REALLY believe Coburn and Carle aren't getting those minutes because their partners happen to be Kimmo Timonen and Chris MF'ing Pronger?

Kimmo and Pronger dictate their minutes, Coburn and Carle are along for the ride.
Coburn and Carle are playing on the top two pairings (matched against top units) because they are playing really good hockey. If Laviolette feels Meszaros plays better than them even strength, the Mes would be getting those assignments.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 07:56 PM
  #40
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,267
vCash: 500
Coburn has pretty much turned into a top-4 shutdown defenseman, instead of an offensive one. Honestly, I'm glad we have one. We don't need to have every top-4 d-man to be up on the offense all the time. Carle may make good decisions and has an offensive edge... but god he is soft when it comes to checking or whatnot. Also, I think it's possible that Gus could replace Carle next season or the one after.

Powe and Nodl get re-signed. I think Boucher does as well if he keeps up some good play. MAYBE Sestito, but no guarantee. Hopefully Lappy is back up and running next season. Would love to see him skate one more season, and as a Flyer. If Leino keeps up this crappy play of his and becomes mostly invisible in the playoffs, I don't think he will be back. If Boynton seems to be solid, like he was against Toronto, I think he would probably replace OD.

Letting go:
Carcillo, OD, Leino (if he keeps up the poor play), Zherdev, Boynton (if he ***** the bed)

Re-signing:
Powe, Nodl, Boucher, Leino (if he really starts to pick it up), Boynton (if he does well)

If Leino goes:

Look at Gagne (even though it's probably impossible at this point and he's holding a grudge). It's a homer thing I guess.

SolidSnakeUS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 08:09 PM
  #41
ph
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
They will let all of those guys go before they trade Carle, Coburn or Meszaros. They are the future core on defense similar to Carter, Richards, and Giroux up front.

ph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:05 PM
  #42
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,046
vCash: 500
The other factors in favour of Carle / Coburn being moved is the nice mix of salary not so high that they are too pricey but high enough to be advantageous to shedding, and that they have upside that would actually encourage another GM to deal for.

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:18 PM
  #43
HellasLEAF
Komarov has cometh..
 
HellasLEAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,037
vCash: 500
how will you allocate cap funds in net then guys. I will assume Bobrovsky is one of your goalies next season and Bouch is probably gone. Do you sign a cheap veteran to back up? bring up a young goalie within the system? what's your plan in net next year...

HellasLEAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:20 PM
  #44
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
how will you allocate cap funds in net then guys. I will assume Bobrovsky is one of your goalies next season and Bouch is probably gone. Do you sign a cheap veteran to back up? bring up a young goalie within the system? what's your plan in net next year...

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:24 PM
  #45
HellasLEAF
Komarov has cometh..
 
HellasLEAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,037
vCash: 500
really? Bobrovsky/Leighton?

HellasLEAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:32 PM
  #46
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 500
saying carle or coburn are more likely to get traded isn't necessarily an indictment on their play. The Flyers are deep on D and good skating, PMD are a commodity. Look what the Pens got for Goligoski.

I think the idea that Coburn may still have another level to reach because of his natural abilities makes him the one to keep over Carle.

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:36 PM
  #47
flyersjamminontheone
In Claude we trust
 
flyersjamminontheone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brandon, Friendly MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
By far and away, meaning, in your opinion. I agree, but - the Flyers have never even hinted on moving Coburn or Carle. Larry44's point is valid.....who knows? I will say this - you DON'T!
Ha ha.

we win the cup this year the list of potential candidates to see the door gets longer. Who's the back up next year

flyersjamminontheone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:40 PM
  #48
flyersjamminontheone
In Claude we trust
 
flyersjamminontheone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brandon, Friendly MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
really? Bobrovsky/Leighton?
Oh hell no. Barring a catastrophe, leighton has probably played his last game as a Flyer (i hope). He pulled the wool over the Brass' eyes (fool me once) and isn't good enough to be a sporadically used back up. wouldn't break my heart to see bouch play the career out following a fairy tale ending to this year.

flyersjamminontheone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2011, 01:09 AM
  #49
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,702
vCash: 50
Just think Giguere may have a better cap hit then Leighton next season.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2011, 11:00 AM
  #50
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Not only does Coburn almost always play with Timonen, but that's again very disingenuous (and untrue, since Coburn played well on third pairing and with Hatcher). Coburn is playing well with Timonen because Coburn is playing well. He's using his size, reach and skating to wear down top lines. He has found himself as a smooth skating defensive D. It's also unfair to take into account older seasons when evaluating Coburn but not Meszaros.
Yay third pairing minutes...!?!? really? And, no, Coburn was never that great away from Timonen.

Do you not remember the **** show that was the Coburn-Carle pairing a couple years back? Coburn got ABUSED last year when he was away from Timonen.

Coburn has been playing well, but that doesn't mean he's fantastic. He's terrible offensively (terrible).

Who isn't taking into account older seasons when evaluating Meszaros v. Coburn? Way to set up a paper tiger there.

Quote:
Carle has also been playing very well even strength this season, despite people ing. There's a reason he's leading the Flyers in +/- and has the third most even strength points in the league for defensemen. He's been moving the puck well and making smart decisions. I've been really critical of Carle in the past, but he's been fine.
Carle has played very well offensively at even strength... he's played like **** defensively... and the numbers back that up. For whatever reason behindthenet is messed up right now, but he has the worst GAON/60 of any of our D.

And who is saying Carle hasn't been fine? He has... he's been very strong offensively, but he's not very good defensively... them just the facts.

Quote:
In all honesty, I'd like the Flyers to keep all 5 of their main D, and I think they well. I just think it's really stupid to claim that Coburn and Carle are the players on the Flyers most likely to be traded "by far".
It'd be great if they could keep 'em... but if you're going to subtract players currently under contract for next year, who are you dealing before them? Larry44 would trade Mike Richards before Coburn and Carle, you too?

Right now, there's very little chance we can keep Ville Leino, for example (or sign another scoring winger). If you want to keep some semblance of our forward attack together, you're going to need to make some cuts... and we're spending a ridiculous amount on D right now.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.