We are in the mix for 4th place, not sure where our shootout wins leave us, but we are 3 points out of third against the Sharks and 4 points out of second behind the Red Wings (who are currently down 1-0 against Edmonton in the third period).
Bernier bounced back from the weak goal just as we knew he would. He came up with some big saves when we went into prevent mode. Tastes so sweet as a Kings fan to have not 1 but 2 great goalies.
Onto the next one!
__________________ "I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough." - Mark Twain.
It ties in with the whole confusing us for fourth place thing...
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"It has not been a good day. I lost my glasses early this morning and I had to go buy a pair of 79 dollar reading glasses today. 79 bucks. You can literally get them at Costco, three-for-20." - Darryl Sutter's response to going up 2-0 in the series.
Also let's thank the Oilers' GM for telling us we would have to pay a high ransom to get Hemsky so that Lombardi got Penner instead. Penner has been dynamite so far while Hemsky is on the injury reserve again.
I am not pro goon or anti goon. I am pro fight whoever drops the gloves and that is why I love Clifford but I am not going to bash Westgarth when I think he is doing as good of a job as can be expected of him with the limitations that his job allows, especially as a rookie at the NHL level.
Okay. I agree it isn't Westgarth's fault that he's in the lineup, but I feel he isn't needed in today's game. As soon as the instigator penalty goes away, then he would serve a purpose.
I completely blame Murray for putting him out there and most of my anger is with him, but Westgarth is still a terrible hockey player. I don't see him getting better with more games played. He simply can't keep up with the play. I hope he dedicates himself with a skating clinic in the off season because he's just not good enough right now.
We are in the mix for 4th place, not sure where our shootout wins leave us, but we are 4 points out of third against the Sharks and 5 points out of second behind the Red Wings (who are currently down 1-0 against Edmonton in the third period).
Kings schedule is definitely not hard. They could catch both.
Nope. But we're not talking about some kid here that's coming off of battling teenagers every night and maturing both physically and emotionally whilst trying to carve out a career in the NHL. Westy is already emotionally and physically mature. He's already played a more demanding role for 4 years of professional hockey since he's given more responsibility and is less of a liability at the AHL level. Westgarth's role in the NHL is to skate north and then south for 5 minutes and maybe get into a staged fight. Sure, with experience he'll get a little better at the NHL level but never enough to justify him playing in so many games.
I don't think people are comparing Clifford and Westgarth just merely using Clifford as an example to show a player that can effectively alter the flow of a game or instill fear in another team because A) he's a good hockey player that can keep up with the play and thus be involved; and B) he can and will fight anyone.
The pro-goon crowd is always using the cliche that Westy allows, from the bench, our guys to play free or somehow prevents opponents from going after our players when there's no evidence to support that. The only guys that are going to fight Westy are the designated goons from other teams in staged fights like we saw earlier. Why? Because for one the trade-off doesn't make sense unless it's goon-for-goon. And Westy is rarely involved in the play. He never gets into heat of the moment scraps because he's usually the last guy showing up to a scrum trying to initiate something after the fact with someone who knows better than to fight a terrible hockey player. But with Clifford they'll take notice.
It's more just an argument that we need more guys like Clifford to up the ante on team toughness while guys like Westy are just a facade and tip of the cap to a bygone era.
I know this is an A B discussion so excuse my intrusion.
I will only state that if Westgarth did not fight, he would never play a single game in the NHL and possibly AHL.
if Clifford did not fight, he would still be in the NHL.
Fighting adds a small component to Clifford's game that makes him more attractive. It's like a hot chic with a nice personality that can also cook.
Westgarth's entire merit is based on fighting. That's like an ugly chic whose only worth is...well, you get the point.
... Again, I don't think anyone is blaming Westgarth here. He's doing what he's asked to do. The blame is on the coach who feels that Westgarth's role is necessary, when in fact it isn't.
Agreed that is TM's blame either way and that is an exceptional position for a debate. Has the game changed enough to where the old school enforcer has a place in it.
The obvious answer is that as long as one team has an enforcer then another team will to protect themselves regardless of how right or wrong that line of thinking may be and as such as long as those two teams have one then so will the rest.
Does Westgarth go out and intimidate? Maybe not like he did in Manch but then, he was given more time down there and while it is debatable, I think that given the ice time and brought along in the right manner that he might make a much better showing.
The other thing is that it is next to impossible to gage how effective enforcers are in todays NHL. You never really know if someone is thinking that they will or won't do something out of fear of retribution any longer in my opinion.
I would also add that I don't think that TM has the slightest clue of how to use an enforcer and that might be due to the fact that the game has changed.
The bottom line to me though is that if he were costing us games or such a truly horrible player then it would be reflected in the stats and it isn't so far. I am not saying that we are better with him at all but I am looking at the player and placing realistic expectations on him based on the amount of time he is given and what his role is for the team.
My position though remains solid in that you simply can't compare the two based on how the fact that they are entirely different players who are given entirely different assignments and amounts of ice time and expectations.
I would love it if Westgarth had Cliffords skills but he doesn't. Westgarth is given two minutes a night and a limited role which he plays pretty well for his first year at the NHL level. Clifford is expected to develop into a top 6 forward and I think he will in a year or two.
Its comparing Westgarth with any other player that is incorrect in my opinion as he has the same type of specific role that Quick or JB has with the exception that he is given much less ice time to prove himself.
I am not pro goon or anti goon. I am pro fight whoever drops the gloves and that is why I love Clifford but I am not going to bash Westgarth when I think he is doing as good of a job as can be expected of him with the limitations that his job allows, especially as a rookie at the NHL level.
Again, I don't think anyone is comparing Clifford and Westgarth as players but illustrating effective intimidation and deterrence (Clifford) versus a facade of intimidation and deterrence (Westgarth). It's nothing against Westgarth personally as he's fighting a losing battle against an irrelevant role. This isn't the era where talentless goons can just run around smashing and cheap shotting any and every player to deter the opposition.
Agreed that is TM's blame either way and that is an exceptional position for a debate. Has the game changed enough to where the old school enforcer has a place in it.
The obvious answer is that as long as one team has an enforcer then another team will to protect themselves regardless of how right or wrong that line of thinking may be and as such as long as those two teams have one then so will the rest.
Does Westgarth go out and intimidate? Maybe not like he did in Manch but then, he was given more time down there and while it is debatable, I think that given the ice time and brought along in the right manner that he might make a much better showing.
The other thing is that it is next to impossible to gage how effective enforcers are in todays NHL. You never really know if someone is thinking that they will or won't do something out of fear of retribution any longer in my opinion.
I would also add that I don't think that TM has the slightest clue of how to use an enforcer and that might be due to the fact that the game has changed.
The bottom line to me though is that if he were costing us games or such a truly horrible player then it would be reflected in the stats and it isn't so far. I am not saying that we are better with him at all but I am looking at the player and placing realistic expectations on him based on the amount of time he is given and what his role is for the team.
Can we stop talking about Westy and Clifford at least for a day and just enjoy a well earned win? You may or may not like TM's decision, but you can't argue with a 4-2 win.
I love how on the last goal, Williams and Penner play it cool in a celebration, then Kopi gives them both a big hugh, then as they go to skate away, Doughty comes in with a big jumping hugging celebration.
I also love how i could have potted Brassards chance in the last couple of minutes
Also let's thank the Oilers' GM for telling us we would have to pay a high ransom to get Hemsky so that Lombardi got Penner instead. Penner has been dynamite so far while Hemsky is on the injury reserve again.
Too true. That would have been a killer, getting Hemsky instead of Penner. For the first time in a long time Kopitar is comfortable with his linemates and is getting less attention from the opposition, since he plays with two respectably skilled guys. It's so nice to have a line that is clicking like that.
Hopefully Doughty is okay. There's been too many close calls recently with his head.
Can we stop talking about Westy and Clifford at least for a day and just enjoy a well earned win? You may or may not like TM's decision, but you can't argue with a 4-2 win.
Well, until I hear Bob and Jim call it, the game hasn't even started yet.
But, fair enough...
...so, what's your take on this whole Westy - Cliffy thing?
