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Old
03-12-2011, 12:56 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Congrats to Carle for being number 1 on the D , and the whole team in turnovers!

Keep it going #25!
Yet #1 in assists among the D! Can't get an assist if you don't attempt the pass first.

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03-12-2011, 01:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
He does that **** all the ****ing time and nobody makes any notice of it at all.

I could make a long YT video of him making great passes leading to the scoring of key goals. Heck, is it the Giroux OT goal in the SCF that he makes not one but two great passes in the matter of a few seconds to set up the goal?

But once in awhile he makes an inexplicable pass in his own end to a teammate that isn't ready that turns into a shot against - very rarely a goal - so let's completely overlook the positives he brings to the table.
Amen. Carle almost personally turned the slump around with a couple great games, but really, it's just more of the same, if you have eyes to see and a brain to comprehend.

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03-12-2011, 01:50 PM
  #28
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It's funny how quickly most on here crap all over Carle, yet Coburn noticeably goes unscathed by the masses. Coburn continually makes the same mistake over and over and over, yet he completely goes under the radar or people will often blame something else for Coburn's inability to make the simple decision. Carle, on the other hand, continually gets raked over the coals and people can't get him out of here quick enough. In two seasons, Carle has really made an effort to improve his overall game. In Coburn's nearly five seasons here, he just seems to be stuck in two gears - bad and mediocre. I say it's about time that people on here recognize what Carle brings to the table. He's quietly becoming a leader on the team and it looks good for a guy who was thrown under a bus in San Jose by Ron Wilson and was thrown to the wolves in Tampa Bay by Barry Melrose.

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03-12-2011, 01:53 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It's funny how quickly most on here crap all over Carle, yet Coburn noticeably goes unscathed by the masses. Coburn continually makes the same mistake over and over and over, yet he completely goes under the radar or people will often blame something else for Coburn's inability to make the simple decision. Carle, on the other hand, continually gets raked over the coals and people can't get him out of here quick enough. In two seasons, Carle has really made an effort to improve his overall game. In Coburn's nearly five seasons here, he just seems to be stuck in two gears - bad and mediocre. I say it's about time that people on here recognize what Carle brings to the table. He's quietly becoming a leader on the team and it looks good for a guy who was thrown under a bus in San Jose by Ron Wilson and was thrown to the wolves in Tampa Bay by Barry Melrose.
I agree, although you should start watching games with me. I have done my fair share of yelling at Coburn over the years.

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03-12-2011, 02:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It's funny how quickly most on here crap all over Carle, yet Coburn noticeably goes unscathed by the masses. Coburn continually makes the same mistake over and over and over, yet he completely goes under the radar or people will often blame something else for Coburn's inability to make the simple decision. Carle, on the other hand, continually gets raked over the coals and people can't get him out of here quick enough. In two seasons, Carle has really made an effort to improve his overall game. In Coburn's nearly five seasons here, he just seems to be stuck in two gears - bad and mediocre. I say it's about time that people on here recognize what Carle brings to the table. He's quietly becoming a leader on the team and it looks good for a guy who was thrown under a bus in San Jose by Ron Wilson and was thrown to the wolves in Tampa Bay by Barry Melrose.
Everytime somebody offers Carle to whatever team I just say to change it to Coburn. Almost every game I yell at the TV because Big Beak Braydon Coburn makes a stupid play or doesn't make a good play.

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03-12-2011, 02:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Congrats to Carle for being number 1 on the D , and the whole team in turnovers!

Keep it going #25!
Rofl, he is also a close 2nd on the team in takeaways (which is really a much more telling statistic of one's defensive ability).

You realize that trying stretch passes in the neutral zone, like the one he hit Briere with for the breakaway the other day, that get intercepted count as turnovers, too, right?

God forbid, an offensive dman trying to generate some extra offense while being 2nd on the team in a purely defensive stat!

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03-12-2011, 02:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Rofl, he is also a close 2nd on the team in takeaways (which is really a much more telling statistic of one's defensive ability).

You realize that trying stretch passes in the neutral zone, like the one he hit Briere with for the breakaway the other day, that get intercepted count as turnovers, too, right?

God forbid, an offensive dman trying to generate some extra offense while being 2nd on the team in a purely defensive stat!
Omg thank you for pointing that out because that turnover rate doesn't look good but I'm sure some people (like me lol) forget that those passes are turnovers. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if you took out those passes.

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03-12-2011, 04:51 PM
  #33
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Carle's turnovers rarely come from stretch passes though, and that's the problem. His passing is good, his turnovers come from him refusing to take the hit to make the play, or just weak board play in general.

Carle's offense has never been a problem (He created that Powe goal vs TO with a great pinch) but in the defensive zone he is just a ****ing pushover. People smaller than him easily outmuscle him. (the reason why he sucks on the PK, and his Pk minutes have been greatly reduced by OD and Mez)

And people who say Coburn doesn't get flack, obviously are just picking and choosing what they read. Coburn has his problems too (Being too passive in the D zone, positioning, dependence on Timonen.) but at the same time he has already passed his hit and block totals from last year, and has 10+ games to play.


And God forbid an offensive D man with a lower shooting % than Coburn and O'Donnell!


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03-12-2011, 05:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carle's turnovers rarely come from stretch passes though, and that's the problem. His passing is good, his turnovers come from him refusing to take the hit to make the play, or just weak board play in general.

Carle's offense has never been a problem (He created that Powe goal vs TO with a great pinch) but in the defensive zone he is just a ****ing pushover. People smaller than him easily outmuscle him.
You know, I see this a lot from the Carle-bashers, just like the oft-repeated bit of hyperbole that Giroux has a weak shot. Carle certainly isn't Pronger along the walls, but he's nowhere near a ****ing pushover.

Also, his passing isn't good. It's ****ing amazing and goes completely under-appreciated.

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03-12-2011, 05:17 PM
  #35
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His passing is fantastic. But what hover said is correct. His turn-overs are the result of him not taking hits on the boards. If you look at kimmo, someone that is in the same mold of a player, he takes 10-20 hits a game on the boards.

Carle shy's away from any attempt of a hit. Outside of that, his game is pretty flawless. He does make some incredible defensive plays that never get talked about, and his passing is fantastic.

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03-12-2011, 05:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
His passing is fantastic. But what hover said is correct. His turn-overs are the result of him not taking hits on the boards. If you look at kimmo, someone that is in the same mold of a player, he takes 10-20 hits a game on the boards.

Carle shy's away from any attempt of a hit. Outside of that, his game is pretty flawless. He does make some incredible defensive plays that never get talked about, and his passing is fantastic.
The rule with Carle has been he makes 1 great d play a game (usually even goal saving), to go with 3 or so bad plays.

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03-12-2011, 05:22 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
The rule with Carle has been he makes 1 great d play a game (usually even goal saving), to go with 3 or so bad plays.
Well then what's Coburn's excuse? He makes 1 great d play a game with about 7 to 8 bone head plays a game......

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Old
03-12-2011, 05:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well then what's Coburn's excuse? He makes 1 great d play a game with about 7 to 8 bone head plays a game......
No Coburn's problem is that he plays great for 4 or 5 games, and then falls off the map for 5 or 6 more. None of our D make 7 to 8 boneheaded plays a game.

Yes I dislike Carle, but I still can recognize the positive aspects of his game in a rational way. I still think he is the likely trade bait this offseason if we need to clear room to keep Leino. His points make him attractive for a team desperate for a puckmover.


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Old
03-12-2011, 05:38 PM
  #39
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The thing I like most about Carle is his positioning. He is always where he should be. Unlike Coburn/Mez who tend to get out of position. But the thing that Mez has over Coburn is that when he goes out of position at least he tries to lay someone out. If Coburn could get that mean streak and keep it he could be a top line D.

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03-12-2011, 05:41 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
The thing I like most about Carle is his positioning. He is always where he should be. Unlike Coburn/Mez who tend to get out of position. But the thing that Mez has over Coburn is that when he goes out of position at least he tries to lay someone out. If Coburn could get that mean streak and keep it he could be a top line D.
Coburn has stepped up his physical game a lot this year though, but his problem is that he doesn't keep it up from game to game.

If Carle is traded I want Coburn with Pronger and Timonen with Mez, as I think those pairings would really compliment each other

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03-12-2011, 05:43 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Coburn has stepped up his physical game a lot this year though, but his problem is that he doesn't keep it up from game to game.

If Carle is traded I want Coburn with Pronger and Timonen with Mez, as I think those pairings would really compliment each other
Coburn has stepped his physical side up this season and I am hoping in the playoffs he will really unleash. Maybe he is saving his beast mode for the playoffs! I hope.

Those two pairings would be excellent, but for this season we can't change what we have because they have been great with their pairings.

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Old
03-13-2011, 11:41 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
No Coburn's problem is that he plays great for 4 or 5 games, and then falls off the map for 5 or 6 more. None of our D make 7 to 8 boneheaded plays a game.

Yes I dislike Carle, but I still can recognize the positive aspects of his game in a rational way. I still think he is the likely trade bait this offseason if we need to clear room to keep Leino. His points make him attractive for a team desperate for a puckmover.
If the cap goes up, why do we need to make "room" for Leino?

If not, lets trade away our 26 year old defensmen who seems to be getting better every year. Do you honestly think Pronger can play a full 82 next year? Do you think Kimmo isin't going to start slowing down? It's called defensive depth, one of the reasons the Flyers did not capture Lord Stanley last June.

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03-13-2011, 11:49 AM
  #43
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Coburn doesnt get as much flack as Carle because hes physcial at times. Carle doesnt know what taking the body means. Coburn has plenty of issues himself as does Carle. If you are a physical player people will seem to "misremember" your shortcomings around here.

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03-13-2011, 01:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Coburn doesnt get as much flack as Carle because hes physcial at times. Carle doesnt know what taking the body means. Coburn has plenty of issues himself as does Carle. If you are a physical player people will seem to "misremember" your shortcomings around here.
What!? Coburn gets as much **** as anyone around here. The thing being "misremembered" is just what gets said. Coburn has been solid all year. He's been just as good defensively as Carle has offensively and no one says anything.

The truth is that both of these guys get an undeserved amount of ****. They're both damn fine second pairing defensemen who get *****ed about because they're not Kimmo Timonen or Chris Pronger. People call Philadelphia an educated hockey market but I don't think so sometimes.

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03-13-2011, 01:27 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
What!? Coburn gets as much **** as anyone around here. The thing being "misremembered" is just what gets said. Coburn has been solid all year. He's been just as good defensively as Carle has offensively and no one says anything.

The truth is that both of these guys get an undeserved amount of ****. They're both damn fine second pairing defensemen who get *****ed about because they're not Kimmo Timonen or Chris Pronger. People call Philadelphia an educated hockey market but I don't think so sometimes.
I dont tink Coburn gets enough critism. Hes been inconsistant at times this year as has Carle. My point is that people will forgive Coburn's mistakes because he knocks people around every once in awhile. He isnt consistant enough for me on both ends of the ice just like Carle.
The crap that both players get is deserved. Some people who have hardons for certian players cant accept certian players short comings.

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03-13-2011, 01:52 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I dont tink Coburn gets enough critism. Hes been inconsistant at times this year as has Carle. My point is that people will forgive Coburn's mistakes because he knocks people around every once in awhile. He isnt consistant enough for me on both ends of the ice just like Carle.
The crap that both players get is deserved. Some people who have hardons for certian players cant accept certian players short comings.
Okay, I guess. Just know that there is a difference between not being able to accept a player has shortcomings, and accepting that all players are going to have shortcomings, and that's okay to an extent. I'm doing the latter. Individual greatness (relative to his NHL peers) isn't within every player's grasp.

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03-13-2011, 01:52 PM
  #47
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Coburn has stepped up his physical game a lot this year though, but his problem is that he doesn't keep it up from game to game.

If Carle is traded I want Coburn with Pronger and Timonen with Mez, as I think those pairings would really compliment each other
You really think there's a chance in hell Holmgren would even consider trading Carle? His value is off the charts. He assists on crucial plays, has the best breakout pass on the team, is young and still developing, and doesn't get injured. Yes, everybody wants a flashy player like Coburn who can hit on occasion, but that is overrated among fans.

Who is going to replace him? Boynton, Walker, Bartulis or Syvret? Those guys couldn't handle his jock. You do know OD is gone after this year right? Who is going to replace him? If they trade Carle the D-corps overall will be much weaker than this year, which is BAD since we have the most asinine goaltenders around who can't stop ****.

Plus, you think Coburn would last 5 minutes on Pronger's line? Pronger would *****-slap that idiot so fast it would make his beak spin.

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03-13-2011, 03:19 PM
  #48
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You really think there's a chance in hell Holmgren would even consider trading Carle? His value is off the charts. He assists on crucial plays, has the best breakout pass on the team, is young and still developing, and doesn't get injured. Yes, everybody wants a flashy player like Coburn who can hit on occasion, but that is overrated among fans.

Who is going to replace him? Boynton, Walker, Bartulis or Syvret? Those guys couldn't handle his jock. You do know OD is gone after this year right? Who is going to replace him? If they trade Carle the D-corps overall will be much weaker than this year, which is BAD since we have the most asinine goaltenders around who can't stop ****.

Plus, you think Coburn would last 5 minutes on Pronger's line? Pronger would *****-slap that idiot so fast it would make his beak spin.
My god, you are an enormous homer.

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03-13-2011, 03:36 PM
  #49
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At the beginning of the season I was all for trading Carle this coming offseason, but now I'm against it. He's by far the best passer amongst Philly d-men. Hell, Visnovsky is the only d-man that has more ESP than him.
Yeah, his 50 giveaways hurt, but the team would definitely miss his offense.

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03-13-2011, 03:40 PM
  #50
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At the beginning of the season I was all for trading Carle this coming offseason, but now I'm against it. He's by far the best passer amongst Philly d-men. Hell, Visnovsky is the only d-man that has more ESP than him.
Yeah, his 50 giveaways hurt, but the team would definitely miss his offense.
This. Before the season I was the same way, but with Pronger's injury problems lately, his value to the team has skyrocketed.

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