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Old
03-12-2011, 09:58 PM
  #51
jflory81
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Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Try looking at his stats for the season a .912 save percentage. An okay goalie this year. I can name 10 goalies having a better year. Maybe more.
I'd rather watch the games.

A goalie's stats don't tell anywhere close to the whole story.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Try looking at his stats for the season a .912 save percentage. An okay goalie this year. I can name 10 goalies having a better year. Maybe more.
Don't be mad because you asked a dumb question and got an answer that blew up in your face.

Top goalies don't let in goals like Toronto's first? Watch more hockey. Did you see the three softies Thomas gave us the other night?

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03-12-2011, 10:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
If it's been said time and time again, I'm sure you can provide a source, right?
Remember when it was reported that Lindy took Darcy's advice and called up Ennis against the Flyers last year and that Darcy usually deferred to Lindy...

And Miller is clearly playing below the standard set by last year, but that's not even what I'm comparing him to. He's playing worse than he did in 08/09. I brought up his cost because it's relative to his importance to the team. When he's your second highest paid player and he's posted sub-900 save%s in 3 of his last 5, he's open for criticism.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I'd rather watch the games.

A goalie's stats don't tell anywhere close to the whole story.
It's funny. Everybody pointed to his stats last year but this year's don't count.
He's not horrible but it's been a very average. You think he'll get one vote for even 3rd for the Vezina. Don't think so. This is an off year for him. Face it.
You are going to tell me he's had a better year than Thomas, Rinne, Luongo, Hiller, Backstrom, Varlamov, Lunqvist, Vokoun, Cam Ward, Bryzgalov, Quick, Niemi?

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03-12-2011, 10:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Don't be mad because you asked a dumb question and got an answer that blew up in your face.

Top goalies don't let in goals like Toronto's first? Watch more hockey. Did you see the three softies Thomas gave us the other night?
Thomas and his .938 save percentage. Yeah he's let in tons of soft goals this year. I think Mr. Softie a little ahead of him at this point. Just a tad.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:09 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
It's funny. Everybody pointed to his stats last year but this year's don't count.
He's not horrible but it's been a very average. You think he'll get one vote for even 3rd for the Vezina. Don't think so. This is an off year for him. Face it.
You are going to tell me he's had a better year than Thomas, Rinne, Luongo, Hiller, Backstrom, Varlamov, Lunqvist, Vokoun, Cam Ward, Bryzgalov, Quick, Niemi?
I think it's very difficult to compare goaltenders on different teams. Any goaltender will tell you that the Vezina is impossible to achieve without strong team defense.

And I also don't think there's any doubt that last year's Sabres team was not only better defensively, but played a much more defensive style (especially over the first half of the season - I've posted team GF - GA stats on that a couple of times).

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Any goaltender will tell you that the Vezina is impossible to achieve without strong team defense.
Why don't you give Hasek a call. LOL.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:13 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Thomas and his .938 save percentage. Yeah he's let in tons of soft goals this year. I think Mr. Softie a little ahead of him at this point. Just a tad.
It's easy to save 93.8% of shots faced when they're all from the outside and/or non-dangerous shooting lanes.

As Flory said, watching the games gives you the true feel.

But there's a few on here who just don't seem to get that and just want to blame Miller for every loss.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:15 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Why don't you give Hasek a call. LOL.
Bet Hasek doesn't put up a .910 over the course of a season if he had to play in front of an AHL lineup every night.

A few of those Sabres teams were underrated defensively.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:17 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Thomas and his .938 save percentage. Yeah he's let in tons of soft goals this year. I think Mr. Softie a little ahead of him at this point. Just a tad.
Now you're trying to change the argument. High School Argument 101. You boldly asked when the last time Miller won a game for the team. You were quickly told by several posters. Embarrassed, you quickly retreated to season statistics to prove the point your earlier question about stealing games couldn't.

And then you tried to say that top netminders don't give up goals like Toronto's first. Another stupid statement, as demonstrated by the fact Thomas, a top netminder, gave up at least two the other night that were even worse than that goal tonight.

Keep grindin that axe.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:20 PM
  #61
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They really could have used Gausted in the circles tonight. I had a bad feeling about this one, but 9 points out of a possible 14 is a successful road trip.

They should rebound against the Sens just fine.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:21 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Bet Hasek doesn't put up a .910 over the course of a season if he had to play in front of an AHL lineup every night.

A few of those Sabres teams were underrated defensively.
The 1998-99 Sabres team? Really. Hasek carried them. Bunch of junk. Remember the Ottawa Series. Like 40-15 shots the first two nights.
Do people here actually think Miller is even close to Tim Thomas this year? I really hope not because I give up if someone is going to argue that.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:23 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
The 1998-99 Sabres team? Really. Hasek carried them. Bunch of junk. Remember the Ottawa Series. Like 40-15 shots the first two nights.
Do people here actually think Miller is even close to Tim Thomas this year? I really hope not because I give up if someone is going to argue that.
Funny, that shot total sounds a lot like what Buffalo faced against Ottawa in the 05-06 playoffs. Except that most were from the outside, and the team gave Miller a CHANCE to make the saves.

On many goals/nights this season, Miller hasn't even had a chance


Your quoting shot totals does not impress me one bit.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:25 PM
  #64
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Miller was poor tonight. Not bad, but closer to it than good. He had two spectacular saves, sure, but if the Leafs finished better they could have had 6 or 7.

E: Is Enroth starting tomorrow? I want to see a "Goaltender Controversy" thread if he plays well.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:28 PM
  #65
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Miller seems to be coming waaaayyyy out of the crease a lot more than seasons past, no? It scares me to death when he comes like 50 feet out to challenge the shooter during a 2-on-1 situation

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03-12-2011, 10:34 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I'd rather watch the games.
So would a lot of other people. God forbid those people also happen to come to different conclusions than you.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:36 PM
  #67
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Yeah, being derisive's much more noble.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
So would a lot of other people. God forbid those people also happen to come to different conclusions than you.
Exactly. I was at the game tonight. I've been to 10 this year and watched every minute of every other game on TV.
You can't criticize Miller ever. I'm not sure why. Hasek used to get ripped more often than him and Hasek was G-d-like in net, even though he stuck it to us in the end.
I'm not even saying Miller has been terrible this year. Just OK. I want more from him. I'm not sure why you are not allowed to say that.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:43 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Exactly. I was at the game tonight. I've been to 10 this year and watched every minute of every other game on TV.
You can't criticize Miller ever. I'm not sure why. Hasek used to get ripped more often than him and Hasek was G-d-like in net, even though he stuck it to us in the end.
I'm not even saying Miller has been terrible this year. Just OK. I want more from him. I'm not sure why you are not allowed to say that.
Perhaps people get sick of - after 70% of the goals against - certain posters saying "he should have had that". Even when the puck was deflected in off defenseman's skates, was at the end of a pretty passing play, whatever. It's always Miller's fault according to some people, and it's obvious bias, and it's tiresome.

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03-12-2011, 10:46 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Perhaps people get sick of - after 70% of the goals against - certain posters saying "he should have had that". Even when the puck was deflected in off defenseman's skates, was at the end of a pretty passing play, whatever. It's always Miller's fault according to some people, and it's obvious bias, and it's tiresome.
How many goals have gone in off of defensemen's skates this year? It's getting ridiculous. I swear Montador and Leopold have combined for about 20 goals against off of skates.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:47 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Perhaps people get sick of - after 70% of the goals against - certain posters saying "he should have had that". Even when the puck was deflected in off defenseman's skates, was at the end of a pretty passing play, whatever. It's always Miller's fault according to some people, and it's obvious bias, and it's tiresome.
It's not always his fault. I went more from him that's all. He's our star, our big contract. I want more. Granted they had crap players in the lineup tonite but I need Miller to dominate in that situation. Dominate. He didn't do that. I want the save on the first goal. I want that. I need that from him.

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Old
03-12-2011, 10:53 PM
  #72
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It's not always his fault. I went more from him that's all. He's our star, our big contract. I want more. Granted they had crap players in the lineup tonite but I need Miller to dominate in that situation. Dominate. He didn't do that. I want the save on the first goal. I want that. I need that from him.
WOW, if that was Vanek people would praise what a hell of a shot. But Miller needs to stop that! Holy moly.

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03-12-2011, 10:59 PM
  #73
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That's false equivalence. It's not Vanek shooting, and Miller's not Average Goalie #1.

That being said, Miller gets a lot of heat based on expectations people have of him that could be construed as unfair. He's probably not a top 5 goalie. But he's very talented, and at the time the Sabres had to pay him like a superstar to keep him. It's not Miller's fault he played out of his mind last year and became a star.

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03-12-2011, 11:08 PM
  #74
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And to add to what others are saying ... it is MUCH easier to look like a superstar when you have superstars playing with you, no not impossible, but MUCH easier. This team is MOSTLY average players. a few jems ... yes. To expect ANY goalie, forward or defenseman to play and have stats of a superstar player when most of the team he plays on is mediocre, is not realistic. yes it has happened, rarely.
direct effect - Miller looks better, plays better, has better stats when the team in from of him looks better, plays better and has better stats. Duh.
Hockey is a team sport, it's not Golf.

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Old
03-12-2011, 11:11 PM
  #75
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That's false equivalence. It's not Vanek shooting, and Miller's not Average Goalie #1.

That being said, Miller gets a lot of heat based on expectations people have of him that could be construed as unfair. He's probably not a top 5 goalie. But he's very talented, and at the time the Sabres had to pay him like a superstar to keep him. It's not Miller's fault he played out of his mind last year and became a star.
Let's play what if's, if Vanek sniped the top corner on the semi break away? Is Reimer at fault? Or is Vanek a better player than Clarke M?

This is the NHL, the excuse making for could of, should of's, is mind bobbling. Miller steals a goal from Lupul point blank, the d-coverage was average all game. Name a goalie that does not let in a soft goal.

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