The team was stacked but not ready for real playoff hockey vs a good team because they did not respect opponents as was stated above. With Hasek they could have got away with it, without him they were screwed.
Emery was very good that season, and he should not be blamed for the playoff loss. But Hasek in 05/06 was magnitudes better than Emery in 05/06 or 06/07. Hasek was still playing near the peak he was at in Buffalo despite his age. He was possibly the best goalie in the NHL the first half of the season, despite Ottawa's lower shot totals they were giving up breakaways like there was no tomorrow. They were running and gunning like crazy. Hasek was astounding.
They TRIED to change once Emery was going to be the starter. It was not very effecitve. They lost some of their offence and their confidence (in Hasek) and swagger. It was so obvious they did not trust Emery. Despite this Emery played rather well for a rookie or for any goalie but Hasek he was not nor will he ever be.
It is like Ryan Shannon replacing Alfredsson. Shannon might have good games but he is not going to ever be Alfie.
I don't think it's fair to say that the team wasn't playoff ready. They advanced to the second round, and even though they were eliminated, all of those semifinal games were 1 goal games. Emery was very much average, hovering around a .900 Sv%. But he was a rookie and was supposed to be a backup, not starter. I'd imagine that with any experienced starter, not just Hasek, the team would have gone deeper in the playoffs.
Basically, even though Hasek was the most talented goalie to ever play for Ottawa, he did not have the impact of Emery or Lalime because:
1) He did not have an impact on a playoff run
2) The Sens continued to post a great regular season record without him
How much impact did either of Hasek or Barrasso have on this franchise? ... Or were their stays as trivial as Demitra, Straka, Stillman, etc?
Until the Olympics Hasek made a profound difference to this team, they were a cup contender with him, Alfredson begged him to play. If healthy he would have made a huge difference that yr, it was very dissapointing that it played out the way it did.
Barasso IMO also played well, if I remember correctly is was another case where our offence dissappeared & they just couldn't score for him. He played well enough for this team to contend if they would have been able to score some goals, it wasn't goaltending that cost them but their lack of scoring, again.
In both cases these guys were past their prime when Ottawa got them but they still could have helped if it wasn't for the "GOALIE CURSE".
Until the Olympics Hasek made a profound difference to this team, they were a cup contender with him, Alfredson begged him to play. If healthy he would have made a huge difference that yr, it was very dissapointing that it played out the way it did.
Barasso IMO also played well, if I remember correctly is was another case where our offence dissappeared & they just couldn't score for him. He played well enough for this team to contend if they would have been able to score some goals, it wasn't goaltending that cost them but their lack of scoring, again.
In both cases these guys were past their prime when Ottawa got them but they still could have helped if it wasn't for the "GOALIE CURSE".
With Hasek, he played only 43 games, and didn't play in the playoffs. Was he a great starter? Yes. However, the team still closed the season 17-7-4 without him. Had he played in the playoffs, he would have had a greater impact. Because he didn't, it's justifiable to say his impact was marginalized.
Barrasso played a whole 7 games for us, with a .879 Sv%. How did he have any impact?
Until the Olympics Hasek made a profound difference to this team, they were a cup contender with him, Alfredson begged him to play. If healthy he would have made a huge difference that yr, it was very dissapointing that it played out the way it did.
Barasso IMO also played well, if I remember correctly is was another case where our offence dissappeared & they just couldn't score for him. He played well enough for this team to contend if they would have been able to score some goals, it wasn't goaltending that cost them but their lack of scoring, again.
In both cases these guys were past their prime when Ottawa got them but they still could have helped if it wasn't for the "GOALIE CURSE".
Barrasso played ok. Nothing earth shattering by any means.
Hasek merely equaled Tugnutt's career half season in Ottawa, then never played again.
I don't think it's fair to say that the team wasn't playoff ready. They advanced to the second round, and even though they were eliminated, all of those semifinal games were 1 goal games. Emery was very much average, hovering around a .900 Sv%. But he was a rookie and was supposed to be a backup, not starter. I'd imagine that with any experienced starter, not just Hasek, the team would have gone deeper in the playoffs.
Basically, even though Hasek was the most talented goalie to ever play for Ottawa, he did not have the impact of Emery or Lalime because:
1) He did not have an impact on a playoff run
2) The Sens continued to post a great regular season record without him
Ottawa in 05/06 was likely the most talented team in the entire NHL since the lockout. For what they had going for them they were not playoff ready.
With Hasek, he played only 43 games, and didn't play in the playoffs. Was he a great starter? Yes. However, the team still closed the season 17-7-4 without him. Had he played in the playoffs, he would have had a greater impact. Because he didn't, it's justifiable to say his impact was marginalized.
Barrasso played a whole 7 games for us, with a .879 Sv%. How did he have any impact?
I guess I interpretted the question differently, I didn't think it meant impact but simply who were the best goalies to ever play in Ottawa. Those two for my money were the best, they didn't play or win the most games but because of their reputations & history they gave me the most hope to win it all. Unfortunately I was disappointed again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Barrasso played ok. Nothing earth shattering by any means.
Hasek merely equaled Tugnutt's career half season in Ottawa, then never played again.
Barasso had the best quote in franchise history when asked about shots that hit the post, "do you want me to stop the ones going wide too". Right up there with, "are you an expert"? I like Tugnutt, he lives about ten minutes from me but when I think of great goalies he doesn't come to my mind but Hasek & Barasso do. Tugnutt may have played more games in Ottawa & maybe he is more liked in Ottawa but Hasek & Barasso provided much more hope to go farther in my mind than any other goalie we have had in Ottawa but it's just my opinion. A lot of people like Lalime but his classic meltdowns to me puts him last on my list & a notch above Tugnutt, never cared for him as a goalie & he holds most of Ottawa's goalie records. Everybody has their favourites & not so favourite.
Lalime
Emery <- maybe more in talent, but lalime carried us (reg season)
Hasek <- the best, but not for us
Tugger<- he should be #1 cause his name is Tug Nuts but, he gets 4th from me
Rhodes
Think this is the same as someone else mentioned. I am however prepared to slot Anderson into the second slot IF he can play like he is, or anything close to it for a 3 year period.
I guess I interpretted the question differently, I didn't think it meant impact but simply who were the best goalies to ever play in Ottawa. Those two for my money were the best, they didn't play or win the most games but because of their reputations & history they gave me the most hope to win it all. Unfortunately I was disappointed again.
Barasso had the best quote in franchise history when asked about shots that hit the post, "do you want me to stop the ones going wide too". Right up there with, "are you an expert"? I like Tugnutt, he lives about ten minutes from me but when I think of great goalies he doesn't come to my mind but Hasek & Barasso do. Tugnutt may have played more games in Ottawa & maybe he is more liked in Ottawa but Hasek & Barasso provided much more hope to go farther in my mind than any other goalie we have had in Ottawa but it's just my opinion. A lot of people like Lalime but his classic meltdowns to me puts him last on my list & a notch above Tugnutt, never cared for him as a goalie & he holds most of Ottawa's goalie records. Everybody has their favourites & not so favourite.
Yeah, there seem to be basically two ways to approach this thread, by impact or by talent. If I had to do raw talent, then my list looks like:
1. Hasek
2. Emery
3. Lalime
4. Anderson
5. Barrasso/Tugnutt
1.Ray Emery - Had his flaws but made good saves to keep his team in the game. Stanley Cup finals best result.
2.Patrick Lalime - We all remember the Nieuwendyk goal but Lalime was very steady for a large part of his career and shut down the Flyers in the playoffs a few times. Confence finals best result.
3.Ron Tugnutt. As reliable as they got, he also posted a ludicrous GAA of 1.79 and was a fan favourite. Second round best result.
4.Dominic Hasek. Gave the team an incredible amount of confidence and allowed it to open it up, creating the Pizza Line. Did not play in post-season.
5.??? Insert any of Jani Hurme, Tom Barrasso, Pascal Leclaire, Brian Elliott, Craig Anderson, etc. etc. None of them really played enough in the post-season to make a good judgment, but they were efficient in their own way. Guess Barrasso should get a nod here at 5.
Barasso was playing with a broken finger.
Hasek was easily the best we ever had. He was lights out that year until he got hurt.
I can't believe anyone has Lalime anywhere near the top of the list.
Hasek and Barrasso barely combined to play 1 season as a starting goalie in Ottawa. What difference does it make how they played or what they did elsewhere? ... If Martin Gerber won 10 Vezina Trophies outside of Ottawa, my opinion that he was the worst goalie this franchise has ever attempted to call a #1 still stands.
Lalime was the teams #1 goalie for 4 full years around the team's peak. 4 full years and I'm having trouble naming anybody else who was this teams undisputed starter for even 2 years in a row.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn
A lot of people like Lalime but his classic meltdowns to me puts him last on my list
Through 4 seasons (41 playoff games) as the starter, how many times was Lalime pulled in a playoff game for one of his back-ups (Hurme or Prusek)?
... Once. 2004, Game 7 vs. the Leafs consituted the entire 40 mins that Prusek ever played in the playoffs. Hurme never got a second of postseason action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan
3.Ron Tugnutt. As reliable as they got, he also posted a ludicrous GAA of 1.79 and was a fan favourite. Second round best result.
5.??? Insert any of Jani Hurme, Tom Barrasso, Pascal Leclaire, Brian Elliott, Craig Anderson, etc. etc. None of them really played enough in the post-season to make a good judgment, but they were efficient in their own way. Guess Barrasso should get a nod here at 5.
I think Rhodes is Ottawa's forgotten good goalie. He and Tugger combined for a 1a/1b system, yet most credit the success to Tugger, who had worse stats and played fewer games.
Thats it. Everything else is garbage. Hasek is the only time we had a bonafide star back there. He would have EASILY won the Vezina had he not gone to the Olympics, and this despite a team that just didnt play D....at all. There were multiple breakaways and odd man rushes a game because they knew he was back there and it didnt matter.
Thats it. Everything else is garbage. Hasek is the only time we had a bonafide star back there. He would have EASILY won the Vezina had he not gone to the Olympics, and this despite a team that just didnt play D....at all. There were multiple breakaways and odd man rushes a game because they knew he was back there and it didnt matter.
I think you neglect the talent Emery had. He played a big role in the team making the SCF in 07, while playing with an injured glove hand. His ego got the better of him, but he was a legitimate starting goalie talent-wise.
I'd also like to point out that if you are arguing that the team played no D in front of Hasek, then you should consider that this same team went 17-7-4 without him to end the season, playing the same style of hockey as they had when Hasek was injured, but with a rookie goalie in net - Emery.
Lalime didn't carry anything. He was carried by a strong D.
I completely agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Hasek and Barrasso barely combined to play 1 season as a starting goalie in Ottawa. What difference does it make how they played or what they did elsewhere? ... If Martin Gerber won 10 Vezina Trophies outside of Ottawa, my opinion that he was the worst goalie this franchise has ever attempted to call a #1 still stands.
Lalime was the teams #1 goalie for 4 full years around the team's peak. 4 full years and I'm having trouble naming anybody else who was this teams undisputed starter for even 2 years in a row.
Through 4 seasons (41 playoff games) as the starter, how many times was Lalime pulled in a playoff game for one of his back-ups (Hurme or Prusek)?
... Once. 2004, Game 7 vs. the Leafs consituted the entire 40 mins that Prusek ever played in the playoffs. Hurme never got a second of postseason action.
Playoffs:
Rhodes = 12 GP (5-7-0), 2.19, 0.918 ... (series W vs. NJ in 1998)
Tugnutt = 11 GP (3-7-0), 2.53, 0.900
Trent - you do this all the time, you can throw out all the stats you want but I've been watching this team as long as you have, from day 1. I'm not a stats guy, I could care less what the stats say, Lalime couldn't win the big game PERIOD. I watched Lalime meltdown at the most critical time & cost us more than one series. So he won a lot of regular season games so what? I'm of the opinion with the team he had in front of him a lot of average goalies would have done well.
Lalime wasn't pulled because he was Martin's guy or who the coach trusted the most for whatever reason but I can tell you a lot of us wanted him pulled on more than one playoff game. What has lalime done since we traded him ... nothing he is a backup goalie & was lucky to stay in the NHL. IMO Holmes is right he had a pretty strong defence in front of him for yrs that probably made more saves than he did. You're not going to change my mind about him, I thought he was a classic choke artist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfieghetti
In terms of impact on the franchise - Leclaire has to be up there.
And Elliott ... we have been winning since he was traded & Colorado has been losing.
Lalime was pulled off the Anaheim scrap heap. He was ok, he was even good at times, but he was horrible when we needed him the most.
It wasn't just the Nieuwendyk goal (there were actually 2 equally brutal goals by Nieuwendyk in the same period)
It was the Sundin OT goal, the McCauley goals, the Roberts OT goal. The whole team had problems finishing, that is not being disputed, and Jacques might have tried a different game plan once or twice, that might have helped too.
You can't blame everything on Lalime, but you sure can put a lot on him.
He was not a good goalie. He fell apart under pressure every time. Too bad the team had no money back then. Or the ability to draft as strong in net as we did everywhere else.
Might have a meaningful banner hanging from the rafters if that were the case.
and was a fan favourite. Second round best result.
