Lalime was pulled off the Anaheim scrap heap. He was ok, he was even good at times, but he was horrible when we needed him the most.
It wasn't just the Nieuwendyk goal (there were actually 2 equally brutal goals by Nieuwendyk in the same period)
It was the Sundin OT goal, the McCauley goals, the Roberts OT goal. The whole team had problems finishing, that is not being disputed, and Jacques might have tried a different game plan once or twice, that might have helped too.
You can't blame everything on Lalime, but you sure can put a lot on him.
He was not a good goalie. He fell apart under pressure every time. Too bad the team had no money back then. Or the ability to draft as strong in net as we did everywhere else.
Might have a meaningful banner hanging from the rafters if that were the case.
His playoff numbers are out of this world. The best EVER of any goalie with more than 40 playoff games (or somewhere around 40 games).
He got 3 ****ing shutouts in a row in the playoffs. 1 bad season and TERRIBLE series doesnt change that.
His playoff numbers are out of this world. The best EVER of any goalie with more than 40 playoff games (or somewhere around 40 games).
He got 3 ****ing shutouts in a row in the playoffs. 1 bad season and TERRIBLE series doesnt change that.
Yea it does, he lost how many times to Toronto in the playoffs when it matter most & we were favoured to win & he also lost to Buffalo that knocked us out of the playoffs when we should have won. In each of those series he allowed terrible weak soft goals that should have been stopped by an NHL goalie. He choked & crumbled under the pressure as Holmes has described & for that reason we deem him to be a goalie who couldn't handle the pressure, best playoff stats aside. Sorry, but we want cups not great stats, stats are for geeks, not champions.
Yea it does, he lost how many times to Toronto in the playoffs when it matter most & we were favoured to win & he also lost to Buffalo that knocked us out of the playoffs when we should have won. In each of those series he allowed terrible weak soft goals that should have been stopped by an NHL goalie. He choked & crumbled under the pressure as Holmes has described & for that reason we deem him to be a goalie who couldn't handle the pressure, best playoff stats aside. Sorry, but we want cups not great stats, stats are for geeks, not champions.
Ottawa was the favorite to beat Toronto once out of all four series.
Patrick Lalime has never played the Buffalo Sabres in a playoff game in his life.
Lalime is barely an NHL goalie. He was minor league before Ottawa, and a backup after.
He benefitted from playing on an awesome team. He sucked then, and he sucks now. A hot streak against Philly, which I already gave him credit for, doesn't excuse the total collapse that followed.
If you want to remember him as something he wasn't, feel free.
Ottawa was the favorite to beat Toronto once out of all four series.
Patrick Lalime has never played the Buffalo Sabres in a playoff game in his life.
OOps your right we had Hasek & Emery who played & let in that crappy goal against Buffalo. Are you sure about Toronto being favourite three out of four series? Doesn't matter I still can't stand Lalemon & for a guy playing a game full of tough guys & intimidation why does he have a cartoon on his mask? Another thing I didn't like about him.
His playoff numbers are out of this world. The best EVER of any goalie with more than 40 playoff games (or somewhere around 40 games).
He got 3 ****ing shutouts in a row in the playoffs. 1 bad season and TERRIBLE series doesnt change that.
This. Lalime was our starter just as we became a great team. He contributed to that just as much as the great team did. Excluding his last year here, he actually elevated his game during the playoffs. Most of our problems were the result of being unable to score.
I think he declined because he lost confidence after the team dumped him to St.Louis for nothing. He's looked shaky to me, at least, since then.
Lalime is barely an NHL goalie. He was minor league before Ottawa, and a backup after.
He benefitted from playing on an awesome team. He sucked then, and he sucks now. A hot streak against Philly, which I already gave him credit for, doesn't excuse the total collapse that followed.
If you want to remember him as something he wasn't, feel free.
He was 24 yo before Ottawa and had a contract dispute with Pittsburgh after starting his career very well at 22 yo.
These might be some pertinent things to consider when discussing where Lalime's career has gone:
- April, 2004: missed last 4 games of regular season with sprained knee
- 2004-05 season: Did not play
- April, 2006: torn ACL
- Sept, 2006: back surgery
I guess I'm interpreting this ranking less on talent and more on impact.
I don't think Hasek had that great of an impact on the team. He could have, had he been healthy down the stretch for the playoffs.
This is so ******* true. Hasek had about as much impact on the team as Kovalev did. But worse- because you knew he wasn't going to be there for us when it counted, and he'd ruined us before from the other end of the rink. With Kovalev at least you knew the whole team wouldn't be there when it counted
Hasek contributed significantly to the team winning that year. Yeah, it was only half a regular season, which was far too short, but so what, he was still the best goalie we have ever had. The comparison to Straka/Demitra is poor, since those players were not very good on Ottawa, while Hasek was.
Trent - you do this all the time, you can throw out all the stats you want but I've been watching this team as long as you have, from day 1. I'm not a stats guy, I could care less what the stats say, Lalime couldn't win the big game PERIOD. I watched Lalime meltdown at the most critical time & cost us more than one series. So he won a lot of regular season games so what? I'm of the opinion with the team he had in front of him a lot of average goalies would have done well.
Lalime wasn't pulled because he was Martin's guy or who the coach trusted the most for whatever reason but I can tell you a lot of us wanted him pulled on more than one playoff game. What has lalime done since we traded him ... nothing he is a backup goalie & was lucky to stay in the NHL. IMO Holmes is right he had a pretty strong defence in front of him for yrs that probably made more saves than he did. You're not going to change my mind about him, I thought he was a classic choke artist.
Stats do lie sometimes, but in Lalime's case they do not. His playoff numbers are spectacular. Bob McCown '100 Hockey Arguments' book lays out very clearly how often the Sens scored 1 or 0 goals in front of Lalime in the playoffs. It's a significant %age. His playoff GAA and SV% are among the best of any goalie in NHL history.
Lalime's career was defined by that game 7 loss to Toronto, no question. Total meltdown. But he deserves way more credit than you are giving him.
It wasn't just the Nieuwendyk goal (there were actually 2 equally brutal goals by Nieuwendyk in the same period)
It was the Sundin OT goal, the McCauley goals, the Roberts OT goal. The whole team had problems finishing, that is not being disputed, and Jacques might have tried a different game plan once or twice, that might have helped too.
You can't blame everything on Lalime, but you sure can put a lot on him.
He was not a good goalie. He fell apart under pressure every time. Too bad the team had no money back then. Or the ability to draft as strong in net as we did everywhere else.
Might have a meaningful banner hanging from the rafters if that were the case.
Can you really blame him for the other OT goals you mentioned? Sundin? Roberts in triple OT? I was at that game - if I recall, Hossa had 3 separate breakaways in that game couldn't convert.
Fair to say that Lalime was outplayed by Joseph/Belfour in those years, but not fair to put significant blame on him for most of those losses. Look back at the number of times the team scored 1 or 0 goals with Lalime in net in the playoffs. Huge number.
Stats do lie sometimes, but in Lalime's case they do not. His playoff numbers are spectacular. Bob McCown '100 Hockey Arguments' book lays out very clearly how often the Sens scored 1 or 0 goals in front of Lalime in the playoffs. It's a significant %age. His playoff GAA and SV% are among the best of any goalie in NHL history.
Lalime's career was defined by that game 7 loss to Toronto, no question. Total meltdown. But he deserves way more credit than you are giving him.
You may be right, I just can't forget or forgive those losses to those stinking Leafs b ut the other promlem that has haunted this team for yrs has been their inability to score in the playoffs. The exception to that would be Heatley, he seemed to be the only guy on this team that could score when they needed it most, he was a significant loss to this team's scoring ability just ask Spezza & Alfredson.
Can you really blame him for the other OT goals you mentioned? Sundin? Roberts in triple OT? I was at that game - if I recall, Hossa had 3 separate breakaways in that game couldn't convert.
Fair to say that Lalime was outplayed by Joseph/Belfour in those years, but not fair to put significant blame on him for most of those losses. Look back at the number of times the team scored 1 or 0 goals with Lalime in net in the playoffs. Huge number.
I was there too, and the Roberts goal was horribly soft. I think Hossa had 2 breakaways, one of which Joseph saved the puck with the shaft of his stick if I remember right.
There is a lot of revisionist history when it comes to Hossa as well. He could NEVER get it done in the playoffs either.
The reason the Leafs beat us was that they had much better goaltending than we did. I know as a fan that it was terribly frustrating to watch Ottawa swarm the Leafs and then have some fluke BS chance end up in our net. I can only imagine the effect it had on the guys playing.
There were definitely other issues involved, but Lalime never gave us the goaltending we needed in the playoffs. We were beating the Flyers anyway. We completely dominated them in every series in every aspect of the game. I'm still waiting for the pain that JR promised to dish out before Chara integrated him in to the boards behind our net.
The past is gone. Maybe Lalime was a nice guy, I know Dave Schreiber could never say enough about him, and defended him so much it made me sick, but the facts are the facts.
He did not have the mental make up to succeed under pressure.
You may be right, I just can't forget or forgive those losses to those stinking Leafs b ut the other promlem that has haunted this team for yrs has been their inability to score in the playoffs. The exception to that would be Heatley, he seemed to be the only guy on this team that could score when they needed it most, he was a significant loss to this team's scoring ability just ask Spezza & Alfredson.
You mean the same Dany "I'm a ****ing allstar" Heatley who has gotten outscored in goals by both Alfie and Spez in the three playoffs where they played together? The reason we started to score in the playoffs was because of Spezza's arrival, and Alfredsson reaching another level.
Quote:
The reason the Leafs beat us was that they had much better goaltending than we did. I know as a fan that it was terribly frustrating to watch Ottawa swarm the Leafs and then have some fluke BS chance end up in our net. I can only imagine the effect it had on the guys playing.
There were definitely other issues involved, but Lalime never gave us the goaltending we needed in the playoffs. We were beating the Flyers anyway. We completely dominated them in every series in every aspect of the game. I'm still waiting for the pain that JR promised to dish out before Chara integrated him in to the boards behind our net.
The past is gone. Maybe Lalime was a nice guy, I know Dave Schreiber could never say enough about him, and defended him so much it made me sick, but the facts are the facts.
He did not have the mental make up to succeed under pressure.
One of the most ridiculous posts I've read. Lalime not getting it done? It's the team in front of him that couldn't get it done 99% of the time. Yes, the Sens peppered shots on the leafs, but when the team is getting shutout several times in the same series while your goalie is still posting up good numbers, goaltending isn't the problem. If you look back at those games, the Sens may have had the shot advantage, but the large majority of those shots were from the perimeter or the outside. That team was just unwilling to go to the dirty areas to get the goals needed to win. Finally, his "meltdown" in game 7 wasn't surprising given that he was having a terrible year to begin with, so it's not like he choked, he just played like he had been all year.
In terms of actual impact on the team...
1) Lalime (lights-out except for that one Leafs series)
2) Emery (brought us to our only SCF)
3) Rhodes (arguably our first truly reliable goalie)
4) Hasek (his flaking out still pisses off 90% of the fanbase)
5) Sidorkiewicz (1992 season. That is all.)
You guys must be too young to remember what really happened.
I think most of us remember, in fact i doubt anyone will forget it.
The fact is that i refuse to blame the goalie 100% when some of the goals you include were 1-0 ot and 3-2 double ot losses. If Ottawa would have changed their system even once during the 5 years we were contenders maybe we would have done something.
It was just as much the scoring and coaching as it was lalime ( - the two joe goals that was beyond sad)
good job.
