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March 17: Conference call update (post #236); Pronger, hand surgery, out 3-4 weeks

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Old
03-13-2011, 11:41 PM
  #101
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by DMadd View Post
We are talking about the Flyers not team Canada, two different teams, two different situations, on Canada Pronger probably had more say then Richards, but on the Flyers Richards has more say over Pronger.

Edit.
And when Prongers screwining things up it is just as noticeable, the only reason people haven't said it is because he is a future HHOF
What's different about the situations? It's a group of the best possible players put together trying their damndest to win the biggest prize possible. Even if Pronger's got less stroke in the Flyers locker room than Richards, nothing ever came from last year's "problems" between the two, and it's only continued conjecture on your part.

Pronger hasn't been Pronger night-in, night-out this year. For most players, that's still a damn high ceiling. And, given his experience, he does have some precedent in calling out younger players. The only reason anyone's upset about it is because there's a hard-on for Giroux that's lasted more than four hours (they say to call the doctor for those), and Pronger's a big meanie.

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03-13-2011, 11:51 PM
  #102
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If Giroux gave it back to Pronger good for him. Hopefully this will wake the team up because no one wants to lose. The main goal for both of those players is winning and if this brings out more emotion in the games then it could be what the team needed.

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03-13-2011, 11:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
What's different about the situations? It's a group of the best possible players put together trying their damndest to win the biggest prize possible. Even if Pronger's got less stroke in the Flyers locker room than Richards, nothing ever came from last year's "problems" between the two, and it's only continued conjecture on your part.

Pronger hasn't been Pronger night-in, night-out this year. For most players, that's still a damn high ceiling. And, given his experience, he does have some precedent in calling out younger players. The only reason anyone's upset about it is because there's a hard-on for Giroux that's lasted more than four hours (they say to call the doctor for those), and Pronger's a big meanie.
I dont know. I like Pronger, but here the hardon for him here is also alot.

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03-13-2011, 11:58 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I dont know. I like Pronger, but here the hardon for him here is also alot.
Pronger can get criticized without folks coming from all over to call you a hater... bit of a difference there (as is usually the case with non-drafted veteran players).

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03-14-2011, 12:12 AM
  #105
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Pronger can get criticized without folks coming from all over to call you a hater... bit of a difference there (as is usually the case with non-drafted veteran players).
In my experience thats not the case.

They throw in that "he's a HOF so it doesnt matter" argument... which is laughable. Pronger gets more protected due to his past then his actual play.

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03-14-2011, 12:29 AM
  #106
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In my experience thats not the case.

They throw in that "he's a HOF so it doesnt matter" argument... which is laughable. Pronger gets more protected due to his past then his actual play.
I was called a hater (by you, as I recall) for saying that Giroux would have a Scott Gomez like career... more than a few lost their **** at the suggestion that Giroux isn't likely to hit 100 pts in a season. The Giroux love fest (dating back to all of last year) has gotten completely out of control.

The reality is that Pronger has been here all of a year and a half... last year, outside of a run of bad play in December, Pronger was an absolutely BEAST for this team (he should have won the Norris, IMO). You would have a hard time criticizing much of anything that he did outside of a select few games... This year, he's clearly struggled with the knee early on in the year, and now he's got the whole hand thing going on.

He's still clearly been the best defenseman on the team on the whole.

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03-14-2011, 12:37 AM
  #107
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Nobody here has the slightest idea what the locker room situation is.
I dont know what happened. I was just responding to the "nose to nose confrontation" rumor. I honestly dont care. Guys hang around each other for 8 or 9 months out of the year things can happen. Its human nature.

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03-14-2011, 07:51 AM
  #108
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Nobody here has the slightest idea what the locker room situation is.
Obviously, we're not there.

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03-14-2011, 08:53 AM
  #109
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Yeah, which is why I don't see the point in speculating about divisions/ bad blood.

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03-14-2011, 08:58 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Pronger hasn't been Pronger night-in, night-out this year. For most players, that's still a damn high ceiling. And, given his experience, he does have some precedent in calling out younger players. The only reason anyone's upset about it is because there's a hard-on for Giroux that's lasted more than four hours (they say to call the doctor for those), and Pronger's a big meanie.
What about the woody everybody gets for Pronger, he hasn't played to his ability at all this season, I know hes been hurt, but if your hurt and playing you will only hurt the team if he is to hurt to play in the playoffs.

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03-14-2011, 09:15 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
Great, Carle will be paired with the Waiver Hack...

Also, for as much as we all love Pronger, his contract is going to kill us. He is beyond slow and has nagging injuries already and his contract just kicked in this year. I don't see him being able to play at the NHL level beyond 2013. Visions of Kyle McLaren appear in my mind. It's going to be brutal. Hopefully we win a Cup this year to pay for the future misery...
Come, you cannot be serious? Did you watch the playoffs last year?

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03-14-2011, 09:18 AM
  #112
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What's different about the situations? It's a group of the best possible players put together trying their damndest to win the biggest prize possible. Even if Pronger's got less stroke in the Flyers locker room than Richards, nothing ever came from last year's "problems" between the two, and it's only continued conjecture on your part.

Pronger hasn't been Pronger night-in, night-out this year. For most players, that's still a damn high ceiling. And, given his experience, he does have some precedent in calling out younger players. The only reason anyone's upset about it is because there's a hard-on for Giroux that's lasted more than four hours (they say to call the doctor for those), and Pronger's a big meanie.
If this team was run by the "core" and not influenced by guys like Carter the recent run of inconsistent, complacnet play is what you would get from this group all season long. I would not be surprised if Laviolette just packed up his bags if they lose in either the 1st or 2nd round this season.

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03-14-2011, 09:38 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If this team was run by the "core" and not influenced by guys like Carter the recent run of inconsistent, complacnet play is what you would get from this group all season long. I would not be surprised if Laviolette just packed up his bags if they lose in either the 1st or 2nd round this season.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd there it is.....

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03-14-2011, 09:50 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DMadd View Post
What about the woody everybody gets for Pronger, he hasn't played to his ability at all this season, I know hes been hurt, but if your hurt and playing you will only hurt the team if he is to hurt to play in the playoffs.
He hasn't played to his ability because he had the issue with his knee, and now his hand. Chris Pronger as a torso a la the Black Knight in Monty Python would still be doing this team favors on the ice. If at all, that's why people would defend him.

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03-14-2011, 09:52 AM
  #115
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I don't know how you're supposed to define "core", but I'm pretty damn sure Jeff Carter fits that bill. He just signed an 11-year deal and is an assistant captain on our team, not to mention the fact that he's been one of our best forwards this year and pretty much ever year he's been here.

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03-14-2011, 10:19 AM
  #116
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March 2010 --> 2010 Regular Season End: 9-10-3
March 2011 --> Current Place in the Season: 2-3-1

But yes, we were successful in the postseason last year because we were just a "hot" team rolling into the playoffs.

People need to calm down. This funk is just a funk. We have guys who are hurt, others playing banged up, and we're at a nice little lull in the season. I missed the last game, but before that game it looked like we were trending to pull out of this slump.

And if we don't then what? Well then it's time to make sure that Lavi has this team woken up for the playoffs.

Panicking when in first place in mid-March is stupid. Maybe if we're a first-place freefaller in December or January. March? My god.

As for the bad blood in the locker room, it's always something right?

Didn't I just make a joke about the media feeding and overhyping the Richards vs. Pronger hatred when the team was in a slump? Well even if they didn't go back to that, they certainly went for Pronger vs. top-end core forward. So predictable regardless of what events took place to make them post such a story.

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03-14-2011, 10:28 AM
  #117
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March 2010 --> 2010 Regular Season End: 9-10-3
March 2011 --> Current Place in the Season: 2-3-1

But yes, we were successful in the postseason last year because we were just a "hot" team rolling into the playoffs.

People need to calm down. This funk is just a funk. We have guys who are hurt, others playing banged up, and we're at a nice little lull in the season. I missed the last game, but before that game it looked like we were trending to pull out of this slump.

And if we don't then what? Well then it's time to make sure that Lavi has this team woken up for the playoffs.

Panicking when in first place in mid-March is stupid. Maybe if we're a first-place freefaller in December or January. March? My god.

As for the bad blood in the locker room, it's always something right?

Didn't I just make a joke about the media feeding and overhyping the Richards vs. Pronger hatred when the team was in a slump? Well even if they didn't go back to that, they certainly went for Pronger vs. top-end core forward. So predictable regardless of what events took place to make them post such a story.
While I agree to a point, I don't think it's entirely reasonable to dismiss it all out of hand either.

Losing games isn't the problem I have with the team; it's the way they're losing. Only playing hard for small portions of games, making stupid plays defensively that aren't characteristic of the guys we have, etc, etc.

It's one thing to be playing decent hockey but losing; it's another thing entirely to be playing terrible hockey and causing yourself to lose games.

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03-14-2011, 10:45 AM
  #118
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As for the bad blood in the locker room, it's always something right
It's bizarre how we never hear of turmoil in the locker room when they are winning.

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03-14-2011, 10:51 AM
  #119
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I was called a hater (by you, as I recall) for saying that Giroux would have a Scott Gomez like career... more than a few lost their **** at the suggestion that Giroux isn't likely to hit 100 pts in a season. The Giroux love fest (dating back to all of last year) has gotten completely out of control.

The reality is that Pronger has been here all of a year and a half... last year, outside of a run of bad play in December, Pronger was an absolutely BEAST for this team (he should have won the Norris, IMO). You would have a hard time criticizing much of anything that he did outside of a select few games... This year, he's clearly struggled with the knee early on in the year, and now he's got the whole hand thing going on.

He's still clearly been the best defenseman on the team on the whole.
Again man, I called you a hater due to other reasons. ANY time Giroux was brought up, you came in saying something negative...always. Not saying you have to say something positive, but its very hard to find a positive remark by you on Giroux. I think alot will agree also.

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03-14-2011, 10:54 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Again man, I called you a hater due to other reasons. ANY time Giroux was brought up, you came in saying something negative...always. Not saying you have to say something positive, but its very hard to find a positive remark by you on Giroux. I think alot will agree also.
It probably just feels that way because he's one of the few people here who isn't balls deep on the hype train.

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03-14-2011, 10:56 AM
  #121
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It probably just feels that way because he's one of the few people here who isn't balls deep on the hype train.
I like how if you like a player its:

"You have a hardon for him"

or

"balls deep on the hype train"

etc etc.

I guess I should just agree and say I do? Giroux has his flaws, I agree, but damn, people get pissed off by how other people like him. Like example, he leads our team in points, and I havent read through this thread but some people are probably throwing out all his flaws this season.

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03-14-2011, 10:58 AM
  #122
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Again man, I called you a hater due to other reasons. ANY time Giroux was brought up, you came in saying something negative...always. Not saying you have to say something positive, but its very hard to find a positive remark by you on Giroux. I think alot will agree also.
Again, while consistently comparing him to a player with a legit shot at a 1,000 point NHL career. It's very easy to see the positive commentary, but for much of last year Giroux wasn't worthy of the collective orgasm. Even this year, the orgasm is out of control for what he's done. He's a good player, and performing to a level right in line with what I've suggested I expected from him...

Do you not see the disconnect here?

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03-14-2011, 11:01 AM
  #123
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Again, while consistently comparing him to a player with a legit shot at a 1,000 point NHL career. It's very easy to see the positive commentary, but for much of last year Giroux wasn't worthy of the collective orgasm. Even this year, the orgasm is out of control for what he's done. He's a good player, and performing to a level right in line with what I've suggested I expected from him...

Do you not see the disconnect here?
But in the end, whats wrong with liking him more then other players of the team? See that's where the disconnect is. I dont understand why people get mad when some fans have favorites.

Oh and being honest, maybe you did, but I dont remember you said he would lead our team in points this season. If by how you approach things, I would probablly guess who would have laughed at the individual who would have suggested that Giroux would be 1st on our team this season.

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03-14-2011, 11:02 AM
  #124
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But in the end, whats wrong with liking him more then other players of the team? See that's where the disconnect is. I dont understand why people get mad when some fans have favorites.
There is nothing wrong with favorites, but people preaching that Giroux is going to hit 100+ points have no basis for that.

Giroux is one of my favorite Flyers, after Richards, but I don't think he'll ever break ~88 points at his peak.

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03-14-2011, 11:05 AM
  #125
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There is nothing wrong with favorites, but people preaching that Giroux is going to hit 100+ points have no basis for that.

Giroux is one of my favorite Flyers, after Richards, but I don't think he'll ever break ~85 points.
Isnt that the same as saying JVR will be a force in a few years, or Bobrovsky will be our legit #1 in a few years? I see people saying Giroux will hit 100 points like that. Could it happen? I think so. It has yet to happen though, but its not out of the realm. I think its more people HOPING it will happen vs basis that it will.

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