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Bettman 5 step plan against concussions

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:17 PM
  #51
Nashy
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
This doesn't bother Boston as their players still don't get suspended.
Gotta agree with you on that one. I still don't understand how a league that is apparently cracking down on headshots allows a blind side cross-check to the head. (Lucic on Moore).

or a penalized play that results in a broken vertebrae.

It's really bizarre.

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:20 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
From what you wrote, it looks like a team that accumulates a high number of suspensions (Not concussions) will be fined.

It's a start, atleast the NHL realizes that there are problems and are now working to solve them.

I'm not a Bettman fan, but I'll give him credit for this.
Smoke and mirrors.

If you don't suspend the players who cause the concussions, you cannot correctly fine the teams that get "lots of suspensions".

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
If you don't suspend the players who cause the concussions, you cannot correctly fine the teams that get "lots of suspensions".
It's obvious that the NHL's supplemental discipline process is a sad joke, but Bettman can't realistically be expected to write up a plan that acknowledges that.

That was the only one that directly addressed the root cause.

#3 relies on the thoroughly discredited NHL disciplinary process. #5 is a defer-until-later copout. The others are good ideas but don't address the root problem.

#1 and #4 live in the prancing-unicorns world where equipment causes concussions (or is likely to prevent them). Good to address, not going to make a significant difference.

#2 is a great idea, but it implies that a concussion hasn't been prevented. Needful, but again, not addressing the root cause.

Bettman's plan, as a transparent attempt of appeasement, is a complete failure. Or, and this is the scary part, it may actually address what he really thinks is the problem, in which case, it's still a complete failure.

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03-14-2011, 03:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I thought it was pretty clear. Teams that get a repeat history of having players suspended for causing a concussion to an opposing teams players will be investigated as a result.

No more Cooke in other words.
Part of the problem is some of those players don't get suspended in the first place...Cooke on savard, Richards on Booth, Chara on Pacioretty etc If the NHL had guts to begin with I'm sure there would be less concussions because players would be forced to respect other players due to lengthy suspensions...but instead they find excuses to NOT spenend players and put everybody in danger.

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Gotta agree with you on that one. I still don't understand how a league that is apparently cracking down on headshots allows a blind side cross-check to the head. (Lucic on Moore).

or a penalized play that results in a broken vertebrae.

It's really bizarre.
That's the crux of the situation right there. No need to reinvent the wheel.

The play was interference therefore not considered a legal hit.

Should've been a no-brainer for a suspension. No need to start inventing new rules, just apply the rules of the game that are in place.

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Smoke and mirrors.

If you don't suspend the players who cause the concussions, you cannot correctly fine the teams that get "lots of suspensions".
Could be BC, but until the next incident happens, we'll just have to wait and see what effect these 5 steps will have.

In the meantime, the fact that they are willing to make mandatory changes to arenas and players equipment is a step forward IMO.

This may all turn out to be a big joke. I'm willing to see what lies ahead though before jumping to conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Oh I don't disagree. I just think it's a slap in the face that he and the NHL make such a stupid decision, stand by it, then days later he posts this. So which is it Gary, do you agree with this type of stuff or don't you? Seems pretty reactionary to me and if it's the case it just shows he's getting a lot more pressure than fans of other teams like to lead on regarding this issue.

I don't think many habs fans would be happy with anything other than good news regarding Max at this point

But alas you are right, any step in the right direction is a step none the less, however if we're on the topic of conflicts of interest, probably shouldn't have current general managers as part of the committee.
I see your point, I'm just trying to look at the positive here. We're upset after the Pacioretty incident, and we want change. Well, they are giving us change. To what degree is yet to be seen.

As for the point I bolded, you know as well as I do that situation is closed. I don't like it, but we'll have to move on and hope that type of situation will be decreased or eliminated entirely in the future.

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03-14-2011, 03:59 PM
  #57
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It's a step in the right direction. A small one, but it's a start.

The problem is of course the "suspension" issue. Until the league develops a consistent standard, players will continue to take risks.

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03-14-2011, 04:09 PM
  #58
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Well I'm not a Bettman fan, to say the least, but this five step program is a step in the right direction. Will it take head-shots/concussions out of the game completely? I doubt it. As a matter of fact, I doubt anything will, as long as hockey remains a contact sport.

With that said, seeing steps such as possible reduction of equipment size, plans to evaluate hockey rinks and make possible changes, and the committee of Shanahan and Co.

I always thought the protocol of sitting a player if a concussion is suspected was always there. Then it brings me back to MAB getting bulldozed and looked like he wasn't all there, only to stick in the game.

The one I don't agree with so far is the fines after several suspensions. I think the league first needs to address their lack of suspensions first, before they start fining teams. Teams that get away with too much, will continue to get away with things, while others that get called for everything will sit there, paying the fines and continue to get frustrated as other teams get away with far worse.

I think the league should finally decide what exactly is a head shot and what isn't. When I see Lucic cross-checking Moore in the head and no receive any suspension or fine, then see Kubina do the same thing to Bolland and receive three games, it speaks volumes to me about how the league still hasn't made up their mind yet.

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:12 PM
  #59
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The phrase "never happy" comes to mind when I read all the responses.

First, these are steps to address concussions, not headshots, so responses like "I don't see how this will reduce the number of headshots" just show you're not reading anything, you just want to complain.

Second, just because this came from Gary Bettman doesn't mean it's stupid. There is some solid stuff in here, including the need to properly examine players after a concussion is suspected, equipment reform and facilty safety standards specifically related to reducing concussions.

As for the team penalties and "blue-ribbon" panel...well, we'll have to see. I still think it's the players responsibility and saying a team should be penalized seems to suggest teams want their players to head hunt, which I don't think is correct or fair of the NHL to imply. And the blue-ribbon panel is the sort of thing that could end up meaning nothing but at least they have former players who are familiar with today's game involved.

Everyone wants to blame the NHL and Bruins but it's long been reported that the glass in the Bell Centre is the hardest, least forgiving glass in the league. And it's now been well documented that the Bell Centre is one of only 2 NHL rinks to have that piece of glass there. Clearly, the team can do more to increase player safety, and they should.

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:14 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I thought it was pretty clear. Teams that get a repeat history of having players suspended for causing a concussion to an opposing teams players will be investigated as a result.

No more Cooke in other words.
That is if the guy who give suspension is doing his job... and it is not the case.

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by goman View Post
First, these are steps to address concussions, not headshots, so responses like "I don't see how this will reduce the number of headshots" just show you're not reading anything, you just want to complain.
The problem is that headshots cause concussions. If you're not addressing headshots, you're not really addressing the root cause.

There's nothing wrong with the list (except the over-reliance on the discredited supplemental discipline process) except for the fact that the list seems to be "it". All of these would be excellent measures if you were also including a comprehensive set of disciplinary measures to prevent headshots. If it's all you have, however, it looks more like an appeasement for the scrutiny the NHL is under, or else a misaimed set of measures.

Every measure on the list can help with the concussion problem. But addressing headshots will, IMO, have more payoff than the lot of them combined.

So the list is good, but it can't be everything. It can't even be the main thing.

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:41 PM
  #62
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Sidestepping the issue, AGAIN.

This will not deter players from throwing reckless and dangerous hits. Only systematic suspension will do the job. But obviously, this league doesn't have the guts to take this leap.

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:54 PM
  #63
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I just hope the fines and suspensions won't be ridiculous as it is right now, and that it would be somebody else than Campbell's gang doing the judging... fines that would be so big the player in question will think twice before doing anything stupid...

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Old
03-14-2011, 04:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Sidestepping the issue, AGAIN.

This will not deter players from throwing reckless and dangerous hits. Only systematic suspension will do the job. But obviously, this league doesn't have the guts to take this leap.
Bettman is just doing this to keep as many sponsors as possible.
$$$$$$$.

Headshots (ex: Cooke on M.Savard, and Chara on Pacioretty): automatic 20-30 games and/or way more.
Violent Knee on knee: automatic 20-30 games and/or way more.
Hitting from behind: same thing as the above...
And if this doesn't improve the NHL, then make it 30-40 games...etc,etc...


Players who injure others have got to pay the price. 20-30-40 game suspensions and more, and also missing playoffs is what is needed. These players are known throughout the league. Pronger, Carcillo, Cooke, Chara (gets away with a lot), Gillies, Lucic (gets away with a lot)...


Bottom line:
players cannot go for the knees anymore. No more headshots. no more hits from behind. No crosschecks. Or...pay the price.

The NHL also has to be aware of players who are seeking REVENGE:
Bertuzzi wanted revenge.
Chara wanted revenge on Pacioretty (2-3 months now).

Cooke will continue doing what he does.
Chara will get away with it again.

Boston will keep losing and then injuring players as revenge, and...they'll get away with it.

The NHL can suspend players for making comments about ''sloppy seconds'', but find excuses to let criminals like Cooke and Chara continue without strict suspensions. Doesn't ****ing make any sense whatsoever.





Even if someone dies on the ice the NHL will say ''it was a tragic accident...we don't believe the other player was intentionally trying to injure or kill the player... this is just an unfortunate accident...''.


And enough with Colin Campbell: his time is up...get 10 ex-players (Lady Byng winners like Ron Francis) to hand out lengthy suspensions to all the animals out there. Clean up this game.
Let the hockey players play hockey and get rid of the 3-4 wild animals on each team.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 03-14-2011 at 05:07 PM.
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Old
03-14-2011, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Hot air and empty rhetoric Bettman style. Basically what this means is when you're hit on the head, it's now mandatory that you see a doctor before resuming play. How progressive!

It's like re-arranging chairs on the Titanic. There's is nothing that deals with prevention of injury in any way, shape or form beyond some nebulous threat to punish some teams in a fashion that has yet to be clearly determined or even agreed on. The approach is still arbitrary punishment after the act instead of prevention and we can see how well that works. That philosophy is unlikely to change soon when almost half the GMs want to maintain status quo, a nepotistic former goon is still firmly in charge of discipline and the commissioner feels "extraordinarily comfortable" despite the fact a player just had his neck broken and the league's top player is suffering from a head injury.

It'll take someone dying on national TV before any serious change is considered. Till then, it's merely lip service.
Good Points...

Shame so few people realize that these 5 steps are soooo weak it is an insult to NHL players and their families, the problem with this whole issue is that the voice of the minority of headshot victims is so minute since the amount of victims of headshot are so very little considering how many NHL players are playing today...

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03-14-2011, 05:04 PM
  #66
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I just returned from 2 weeks vacation and so I immersed myself in the outrage of this topic before viewing the clip. To tell you the truth I expected a more blatant infraction by Chara given HFboard's general tone on it's brutality.

It's times like this when it's tough to take the National Hokey League serious. The owners have taken obstruction out of the game to the point you can't even lift an opponent's stick off the puck without being sent to the sinbin. They've made 2 changes to the rule governing goals scored off skates, in a so-called interest of safety, and I don't recall ever seeing anyone cut by an errant blade at the net.

So the league is great at creating solutions that have no corresponding problem, but it seems it can't muster any ideas on how to fix problems that actually exist. Players are dropping like flies to concussions and they have been for a while, it takes fan outrage and the weighing in of players for a committee to get formed.

I have said it before I don't see any significant change coming to hockey until there's a fatality on the ice, or a fatality on Coaches Corner.

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Old
03-14-2011, 05:20 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Bettman is just doing this to keep as many sponsors as possible.
$$$$$$$.

Headshots (ex: Cooke on M.Savard, and Chara on Pacioretty): automatic 20-30 games and/or way more.
Violent Knee on knee: automatic 20-30 games and/or way more.
Hitting from behind: same thing as the above...
And if this doesn't improve the NHL, then make it 30-40 games...etc,etc...


Players who injure others have got to pay the price. 20-30-40 game suspensions and more, and also missing playoffs is what is needed. These players are known throughout the league. Pronger, Carcillo, Cooke, Chara (gets away with a lot), Gillies, Lucic (gets away with a lot)...


Bottom line:
players cannot go for the knees anymore. No more headshots. no more hits from behind. No crosschecks. Or...pay the price.

The NHL also has to be aware of players who are seeking REVENGE:
Bertuzzi wanted revenge.
Chara wanted revenge on Pacioretty (2-3 months now).

Cooke will continue doing what he does.
Chara will get away with it again.

Boston will keep losing and then injuring players as revenge, and...they'll get away with it.

The NHL can suspend players for making comments about ''sloppy seconds'', but find excuses to let criminals like Cooke and Chara continue without strict suspensions. Doesn't ****ing make any sense whatsoever.





Even if someone dies on the ice the NHL will say ''it was a tragic accident...we don't believe the other player was intentionally trying to injure or kill the player... this is just an unfortunate accident...''.


And enough with Colin Campbell: his time is up...get 10 ex-players (Lady Byng winners like Ron Francis) to hand out lengthy suspensions to all the animals out there. Clean up this game.
Let the hockey players play hockey and get rid of the 3-4 wild animals on each team.
Bettman will not let it happen, Campbell is part of the clique... omerta reign... even Molson cannot do anything.

The only way and it is impossible is a huge boycott of everything NHL... we boycott the Habs it will hurt Molson and he do not deserve it.

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Old
03-14-2011, 05:34 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by goman View Post
The phrase "never happy" comes to mind when I read all the responses.

First, these are steps to address concussions, not headshots, so responses like "I don't see how this will reduce the number of headshots" just show you're not reading anything, you just want to complain.

Second, just because this came from Gary Bettman doesn't mean it's stupid. There is some solid stuff in here, including the need to properly examine players after a concussion is suspected, equipment reform and facilty safety standards specifically related to reducing concussions.

As for the team penalties and "blue-ribbon" panel...well, we'll have to see. I still think it's the players responsibility and saying a team should be penalized seems to suggest teams want their players to head hunt, which I don't think is correct or fair of the NHL to imply. And the blue-ribbon panel is the sort of thing that could end up meaning nothing but at least they have former players who are familiar with today's game involved.

Everyone wants to blame the NHL and Bruins but it's long been reported that the glass in the Bell Centre is the hardest, least forgiving glass in the league. And it's now been well documented that the Bell Centre is one of only 2 NHL rinks to have that piece of glass there. Clearly, the team can do more to increase player safety, and they should.
Drinking KoolAid is what comes to mind when i read your post.

The purpose of the discussions are to find consensus on reducing concussions not how to ascertain the gravity of them after the fact. Although that is commendable regadless.

The content of the 5 year plan is full of hot air. That you see solid stuff in there means you are buying the "glass hurt Patches not Chara" spiel. Sorry to blow your bubble but I can't remember the last time somebody nailed the stanchion at the Bell Centre and broke his neck. Blaming Bell Centre glass and the stanchion is juvenile and ridiculous. Our players play there 41 games per season and they seem fine. Besides, they were changing the glass anyway so why do people focus on this so much?

If I wasn't already convinced that the 5 point plan was meaningless you just convinced me of its uselessness.

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Old
03-14-2011, 05:47 PM
  #69
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Why is the Nhl always reactive but never proactive? Most of this should have been implemented many years ago.

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03-14-2011, 06:04 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaix View Post
As per BobMckenzie twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie

Bettman outlines 5 step plan:

1. Brendan Shanahan working with NHLPA to expedite equipment modifications.

2. Revised concussion protocol. If player is suspected to have had one, must be removed from the bench for assessement in quiet
That assessment must be done by a medical doctor, not the team therapist, using standardized SCAT testing.

3. Fines and/or suspensions for clubs and coaches of players/teams that rack up high number of suspensions. No details yet.

4. Safety engineers to make sure all NHL arenas conform to safe standards and to come up with ideas to "soften" environment.

5. Special committee of Shanahan, R Blake, Yzerman, Niuewendyk to continue investigating this issue.
This plan is designed to lower our expectations from something that we were hoping for to something we will have to settle for. The focus has moved from "prevention" to "treatment".

Point #1 clearly demonstrates this: it wasn't equipment that broke Patches neck it was being directed into an immovable object. Therefore, replacing the armor these guys wear isn't going to stop this type of injury. Savard would still have been concussed. Same for Crosby, Bergeron and countless others. Focusing on equipment is a distraction to the real issues.

Point #2 what's to ague with that? Of course we should ascertain the extent of the injury; my question is why haven't they done that already? Shouldn't it have been standard procedure? And shouldn't it have been the NHL together with the NHLPA that did this years ago?

Point #3 what's the point? Suspensions would remain a question of history, intent, the aggressors version of events, the players charitable work, his character references, his team mates statements of innocence. In short, somebody like Campbell would have to make a judgment call. A team could realistically be the worse offenders yet have cleaner records than others. Kosto and Lappy got suspended for very little cause and Chara gets nothing. If this became policy we'd be closer to getting fined than the B's. Does that make sense?

Point #4 if it applies to all rinks hard to see why this would be discarded. If it's used to indicate even partial culpability in the Patches incident it's unacceptable. The rink had nothing to do with the incident, it was all on Chara.

Point #5 why is the committee limited to former players? McGuire said it should include more than just players and for once...I agree with him! Why not include a larger sample that could get results. I don't have faith that 4 guys could solve all these issues. When you want results you put the proper people in place to find a viable binding solution. When you need to put out fires you form committees.

It seems so simple that a given action gets you a given punishment. Puck over boards defensive zone=delay of game. stick in opponents face=2 or 4 minutes depending. No intent, no history of the player or his take on events just a penalty. Why do we need a committee to figure this one out? Action X=suspension X. Simple!

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03-14-2011, 06:18 PM
  #71
Nashy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaix View Post
As per BobMckenzie twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie

Bettman outlines 5 step plan:

1. Brendan Shanahan working with NHLPA to expedite equipment modifications.

2. Revised concussion protocol. If player is suspected to have had one, must be removed from the bench for assessement in quiet
That assessment must be done by a medical doctor, not the team therapist, using standardized SCAT testing.

3. Fines and/or suspensions for clubs and coaches of players/teams that rack up high number of suspensions. No details yet.

4. Safety engineers to make sure all NHL arenas conform to safe standards and to come up with ideas to "soften" environment.

5. Special committee of Shanahan, R Blake, Yzerman, Niuewendyk to continue investigating this issue.

Sniff...sniff...smells like a whole of nothing.

1. Even Grandpa Cherry was complaining about the equipment a few years ago.

2. How many fingers am I holding up? Okay, you're good.

3. Fines and/or suspensions will be talked about, and either won't
happen or will be so small as to be meaningless.

4. Safety engineers will make all the rink evironments softer, just
like the NHL Brass' heads.

5. Special committe will keep on investigating and conclude that
the NHL is a fast-paced, violent game and **** happens.


Next....

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03-14-2011, 07:18 PM
  #72
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how about:

1. no biased judgement?
2. increased fine $$? 10,000$ is peanuts to them

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Old
03-14-2011, 07:32 PM
  #73
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I wonder what the NHL has against an all out ban of head shots intentional or not?

Is it that they think a star player will be penalized and suspended therefore not having a Marquee attraction. Hmm....
Crosby
Green
Richards
All missed games because of "accidental head shots". Which is the lesser evil.
Let's not even go in the direction of Lindros whose career was never what it could be because of concussions.

Is it that they think the game won't be exciting?
The Olympics I think we will all agree is pretty exciting hockey. They play under IIHF rules that have a zero tolerance head shot rule.

Is it that the think the talent pool is to shallow to fill the teams?
There are literally thousands of talented players who never had the opportunity to play at a high level because they were told repeatedly they wouldn't make it because they're too small. The ones like DD who make it are exceptional not only because of their size, but because of all the obstacles placed in front of them by the establishment.

What could the impediment be?
Is it the fact that in spite of Bettmann's insistence that our game needed less fighting to be successful in the states that he knows that violence is the one thing that actually sells our game in non traditional markets.

If players know they'll get called for any head shot, I GUARANTEE head injuries will decrease by at least 50%.

As for supplemental discipline. How come the injured players team is not represented at these disciplinary hearings. It seems to me kind of like going to the principals office, he either likes you or not. You may or may not be able to convince him you're an angel. Maybe if Campbell or Murphy actually had to deal with a representative from the offended team they wouldn't find it as easy to let players walk.

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03-14-2011, 07:38 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goman View Post
The phrase "never happy" comes to mind when I read all the responses.

First, these are steps to address concussions, not headshots, so responses like "I don't see how this will reduce the number of headshots" just show you're not reading anything, you just want to complain.

Second, just because this came from Gary Bettman doesn't mean it's stupid. There is some solid stuff in here, including the need to properly examine players after a concussion is suspected, equipment reform and facilty safety standards specifically related to reducing concussions.

As for the team penalties and "blue-ribbon" panel...well, we'll have to see. I still think it's the players responsibility and saying a team should be penalized seems to suggest teams want their players to head hunt, which I don't think is correct or fair of the NHL to imply. And the blue-ribbon panel is the sort of thing that could end up meaning nothing but at least they have former players who are familiar with today's game involved.

Everyone wants to blame the NHL and Bruins but it's long been reported that the glass in the Bell Centre is the hardest, least forgiving glass in the league. And it's now been well documented that the Bell Centre is one of only 2 NHL rinks to have that piece of glass there. Clearly, the team can do more to increase player safety, and they should.
Headshots lead to what exactly?..Broken legs?

Headshots and Concussions go hand in hand, I really don't understand how you defer both.

Those set of rules are good, but they don't touch the issue at hand.
If you need a test from a Doctor before stepping on the ice when having symptoms of a concussion, well, you already HAVE a concussion. So, there's no prevention.
Fixing the equipment seems a lot more like a joke than anything. Even in the NFL with much better helmets, they don't prevent concussions.
Fixing the arenas?..Well, that still doesn't touch all of the many situations that resulted in open ice. Also, many teams already have better hit-absorption glass.
Fining the coaches and owners for repeat offenders sounds like a rule that will be left for interpretation again, which seems to be the biggest problem revolving around the hits leading to concussions. How Savard, Richards and Chara escape suspensions made absolute no sense. It was actually contradictory when looking at other players that did get suspended for similar hits.

Having a small committee to ''further address the issue'', whatever that means, isn't reassuring either.

As many said, this seems a lot more like a ''let's do the minimum to appease the masses''.

To me it was simple. Give clear and strict punishments for hits involving the head. Make it extra clear so that it will never be left for interpretation. No matter the intent, you get a clear suspension. The players will have to start using their heads and be more careful, ya, boohoo. When someone crosses the street without looking at incoming traffic or the lights, people will slow down regardless because nobody wants to kill a jaywalker. So, if someone skates with his head down, down aim the head. Doesn't mean you can't deliver a good shoulder to shoulder hit, but make sure the head is not the prime target. Simple and clear.

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03-14-2011, 08:02 PM
  #75
sXe
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As useless as those proposals are, it's nothing compared to the insult of seeing the inertia of Pierre Gauthier. What happened to the Habs organization leading the way ? Our DG goes there and then becomes a sheep and just repeats the party line.

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