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The Deflections Issue: Torts? The D? Henrik?

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Old
03-14-2011, 03:14 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Girardi is becoming quite the pro at kicking the puck into our net as well. And these past two seasons, with all the grazing deflections...it's not so much looking for a scapegoat, but simply the boiling over of frustrations regarding a maddening trend.
Not all people just some people. I just think a few in order to vent are searching for scapegoats which makes it easier to take than admitting we have horrendous luck and there's nothing that can be done. I;m sure there are a few small tweaks can be made...perhaps an angling issue or wahtnot but overall we've had just terrible luck. Prob highlighted with the Fla goal off Artie

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03-14-2011, 05:56 AM
  #27
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Hopefully our bad bounce karma will swing now and some will start to go our way. It can't keep going like that. The 3 in a row game was hard to take.

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03-14-2011, 07:34 AM
  #28
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No one is to blame. It happens, it just so happens that we had 4 in the last 2 games.

Prior to that, this is not an issue.

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03-14-2011, 07:41 AM
  #29
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The last 2 games have been crazy, but I don't think they are scoring many own goals like they did with Ulanov, Hatcher, Popovic, etc.

Besides the deflections and screens, the other problem with blocking shots is when they do get a piece of the puck, but then it goes straight to an opponent who then has an easy open net. That game against the Isles on Columbus Day comes to mind, the 5-on-3 goal the Isles scored to tie the game.

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Old
03-14-2011, 08:49 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post


1) Torts' system -- I really can't blame him for this but it's his job as the coach to make adjustments and order the players to accomplish tasks. One suggestions is make it mandatory for players to dive to block shots instead of standing straight up.
Of course the system has a lot to do with it. But it has to do with the personnel he too. The Rangers have to collapse down towards the net, and that means that an opposing player is there too. Its easy to say that if you stop and move those guys away, that the deflection goals will cease. But the traffic in front is just a standard in this league, its very difficult to stop that - especially when teams KNOW Henrik can be beaten that way. Thats the book on him. So a guy like McIlrath may help in the future clearing space. But nothing thats going to be ground breaking.

As far as diving, instead of standing up to block shots? I see no correlation there. Anisimov went downand it knocked off his stick hit the ice and deflected in the air. You just dont know where the pucks going to go. Besides, if you have guys diving and going to the ice every time they block a shot, good defenders on the other team will recognize this, walk around them and then score clean goals instead.

I think the Rangers have to concentrate on one thing. PREVENTING SHOTS, not blocking them. How do you do that? Stay closer to the pointmen, and take away the passes to the points. The Rangers seem to face a lot more point shots then most teams imo, and I cringe everytime one is released. Compared to the Rangers its gotta be a 4:1 ratio of shots from the point, with the Rangers seldom getting any off. But concentrating on keeping closer to the point man opens you up in the middle of the ice. Its a double-edge sword there as well. More skill on the team would help too, because the puck would be in the OTHER END OF THE RINK instead.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
2) The Defense -- They are the bigger culprits. For example, on the Clowe goal, why in the world was Staal in the faceoff dot for a shot taken 10 feet above the circle? Moreover, he didnt dive paralle to the ice, but kinda half-hearted his block attempt. In stead of clearing the shooting lane, he actually provided a partial screen with no Shark even near the front of the net. Staal should have been well below the dot and given Henrik a clear line of sight.

Same with the second goal. Henrik had a clear line of sight, but Staal with just a weak attempt to check Eager and Anisimov with a really weak attempt to get in front of the shot.
Staal was highsticked in the face, had the puck stripped from him and then sent to the other side. Staal was right for going back towards the net to and the middle of the ice to close the PK square. He just didnt have enough time to recover to get back into the perfect position. That was a ******** goal to begin with, the Rangers should have gotten a
PP out of that, so not a good example imo.

Weak attempt? The game moves so fast, sometime all you can do is throw your leg out to try and block the shot. There are very few times in a game where you can actually decide how you want to block a shot. The game isnt played in slow-motion. You do what you can do at that spit-second. Unfortunately players dont have 5 replays to think about how they are going to block a shot before it happens, you just try to get in the way, anyway you can. Not buying the blocking-the-shot-better argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
3) Henrik -- I can understand why he plays deep in his cage on breakways and with traffic in front. I have no idea why he plays deep in his net on long shots from any angle when it's been mathematically and scientifically proven that as you go further and further away from the crease, the shooter has less and less to shoot at.

It's the only flaw in his game and teams know it. It truly is an Achilles Heel. I personally thought the Federov goal in Game 7 would have forced him to change but to no avail. The situation gets compounded when his defenders are screening him and not properly getting in the way of shots he would normally stop with ease.
You want the reason? This is probably the biggest one. Henrik has problems with deflected shots, he plays deep in the net, and teams know this so they try to exploit it. Simple. The other night Henrik stopped everything he saw that wasnt deflected. Its like that most nights. How do you beat a goalie like that? Deflections and odd-man rushes. Take your pick.

But one thing i disagree with is that its his only flaw in his game. I'm going to go off the subject here for just a second, when i say that Henrik Lundqvist is most likely the worst puck handler in the league. Hes really bad and makes it so much worse on himself and the team because of it. PLEASE, do NOT discount this fact. Watch the good puckhandlers like Brodeur and Turco (even Biron) - When the puck goes behind the net, they get to it quickly, are decisive and get it to the right place to move it out of their zone. Henrik does the exact opposite about 90% of the time. He stutters, hesitates, (because he knows he sucks) confuses his defenseman, and gives it away in the process. Staal and Girardi must HATE when he gets to it. The Rangers would be better off just demanding he stay in the net.

And dont give me this garbage that Henrik isnt bad because he has 4 assists - that has nothing to do what i am talking about. What i am talking about is possession and giving it away. Hank will send it up the boards and just about everytime he does that its a perfect giveaway on the half-boards. What does that lead to? More pressure in the zone, more point shots, more goals against. It might not be a direct result of give-away to goal, but do that enough times during the game and its about 4-6 minutes of time in your own zone you can avoid. If Henrik ever fixed this part of his game i GUARANTEE the Rangers would give up less goals, win more games and his numbers would be sparkling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
I don't know what Torts is doing to fix the problem, but he gets paid a lot of money to do so. As a fan, especially one of this team, it kills me to think that this season and the ones thereafter are going to painfully end because of some wobbly, fluttering wrist shots that pinballs off 10 people.
There is a lot of things you can do, but some of it is just plain bad luck.

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03-14-2011, 11:41 AM
  #31
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OP: HockeyBasedNYC "I think the Rangers have to concentrate on one thing. PREVENTING SHOTS, not blocking them. How do you do that? Stay closer to the pointmen, and take away the passes to the points. The Rangers seem to face a lot more point shots then most teams imo, and I cringe everytime one is released. Compared to the Rangers its gotta be a 4:1 ratio of shots from the point, with the Rangers seldom getting any off. But concentrating on keeping closer to the point man opens you up in the middle of the ice. Its a double-edge sword there as well. More skill on the team would help too, because the puck would be in the OTHER END OF THE RINK instead."

I agree with this.

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Old
03-14-2011, 01:54 PM
  #32
vipernsx
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This makes no sense at all. Question the system because of bad bounces, this is foolish. I guess the team should play along the boards and make sure they don't get between the play and the goalie just in case the puck touches them or they screen Henke...c'mon, this is Hockey, it happens. It just so happens, it happened a lot lately.

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Old
03-14-2011, 01:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think the Rangers have to concentrate on one thing. PREVENTING SHOTS, not blocking them. How do you do that? Stay closer to the pointmen, and take away the passes to the points.
That's fine but if are down a man, if you're going to stay close to the point man, you're leaving a man open and that's usually open down low. You can't play man to man and passing the puck is way faster than anyone can skate.

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Old
03-14-2011, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
That's fine but if are down a man, if you're going to stay close to the point man, you're leaving a man open and that's usually open down low. You can't play man to man and passing the puck is way faster than anyone can skate.
I believe i touched on that in the next line or two...

You're right, which is why you cant blame the system really. Positioning is very key and i believe for the most part the Rangers defenseman and forwards have been very diligent in this area the whole season. You dont want to start cheating because then youll start leaving some lanes open.

When you watch the good teams, like Detroit and the Sharks - they have a lot of skill in their lineup and their players have the ability to throw some quick behind the back passes and saucers up to the point with pinpoint accuracy, exploiting the open lane from the half boards diagonally to the weak side point. So those types of teams will find a way no matter how you approach the defensive setup...

The Rangers have to continue to block shots, you cant abandon that just because there have been some bad bounces along the way here.

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Old
03-14-2011, 08:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NYRfan89 View Post
The increase in deflections has been the result of us experiencing some very bad luck.

...

The puck deflected in off Staal last night because he was out of position -- but he was out of position because he had just been high sticked and moron ref Bill McCreary missed it (and it should've been 4 minutes, no less). Can't fault Staal for trying to get back into the play and inadvertently deflecting the puck in in the process.

Most of the other deflections off Rangers players have just been freak things.

...
I concur here. The deflection off of Staal was a result of him still reeling from the high stick. Watch the play again. He gets whacked in the face and barely gets back into the play before the puck goes in. He's out of position because of the high stick. He's reeling because of the high stick and as a result, out of position and half ***** the blocked shot attempt. I don't blame him. He probably was too bleary eyed from the high stick to even attempt to block that shot. Kudos to him for having the sack to get in front of it. A lot of the other ones I agree are just bad luck. There are plenty of other teams that make tons of attempts to block shots (a lot less successfully than NYR I might add) and don't see as many deflections. Bad luck. Period.

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Old
03-15-2011, 07:53 AM
  #36
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I think the entire thread is 100 percent invalid.

The OP wrote a good post and made a lot of good arguments.

But a big percentage of all goals in hockey are scored after deflections. And in every single case can you look at them and say "if the D did X or Y" or if the goalie did X and Y, the deflection would not have gone in. I mean, a puck hits something, and goes into the net. Shift the angle of what the puck hits just a few degrees, and its simple math that it does not go in. Still its impossible without any single doubt to prevent all deflections to go in. The players hit do not see the puck. Oh some genius will think, can't he then go into the corner instead? Come on...

My point is just, sure, we have probably given up more deflections then usual. There are probably smaller marginals in our game that makes us give up more.

If anything, Hank saves everything else. Would he have given up more 2 on 1's maybe the issue that we give up a ton of odd man rushes would have been a bigger issue.

But now its a topic every time a goal is deflected into the net. I mean, if we give up the blueline, falls into Hank's lap, and let the other team fire 50 pucks at the net, then its a issue.

But when there is a FO, we looses it, two players swings at a loose puck, it hits our D and goes in, why is that a issue? It happeneds. And I think that is good. Otherwise we would see 82 0-0 games per season...

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