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Has Avery Just Played Himself Off This Team?

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Old
03-15-2011, 11:44 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
John Tortorella obviously has a vendetta against Avery. He even said it on TSN a few years ago. Tortorella has essentially destroyed Sean Avery. He was a very effective player.

And Tom Renney ruined Petr Prucha!

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The two other calls in this game were BS. The Islanders player turned his back a split second before the hit.
I'll call B.S. right now because if that same hit happened to one of our forwards you know all us Ranger fans would have thought there should have been a penalty and you can't deny that... He crunched a player face-first into the boards from behind and from a good distance away from the boards... It's a dangerous situation and one that can be easily avoided...

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Everyone here has cried about Avery not being the same. Well that player takes penalties, and bad ones at times. Tonights penalty would have been bad if it was a 1 goal game. But it was a 4 goal game.
Did all 3 penalties he was called for tonight occur while it was a 4 goal game?

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Also, if Tortorella did not want anything to happen towards the end of the game, why even put Avery on the ice? Im sure he should understand that players are more likely to do stupid things when they have a big lead.
So now we find a way to blame the coach for even putting Avery on the ice??? What was he thinking putting Avery out there knowing in advance he was going to take a stupid penalty! This is taking the excuse making to a whole new level.


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03-15-2011, 11:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Honestly, I think its bull ****. I said it in the other thread. The roughing penalty at the end wasnt great, but it was essentially meaningless. It was a 4 goal game inside 5 minutes. Tortorella just looked like a hot head.

John Tortorella obviously has a vendetta against Avery. He even said it on TSN a few years ago. Tortorella has essentially destroyed Sean Avery. He was a very effective player.

The two other calls in this game were BS. The Islanders player turned his back a split second before the hit. Incidental contact caused the goalie interference.

Everyone here has cried about Avery not being the same. Well that player takes penalties, and bad ones at times. Tonights penalty would have been bad if it was a 1 goal game. But it was a 4 goal game.

Also, if Tortorella did not want anything to happen towards the end of the game, why even put Avery on the ice? Im sure he should understand that players are more likely to do stupid things when they have a big lead.

The main point is that John Tortorella obviously overreacted. If it had been ANY other player, would he have flipped out like such? I say no.
i still think it was a stupid penalty in the 3rd but i agree torts overreacted. when the game got tied at 2 he showed zero emotion. but avery takes a stupid penalty in a 4 goal game and he freaks out like that? its rediculous, he really doesnt like him at all.

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03-16-2011, 12:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I'm pretty sure the exact quote was "that ****ing mother ****er." I only point it out because it's indicative of a lot more disgust with Avery himself than just the isolated penalty.
Yeah it looked like Tortorella not only has issues, but has some serious hate for Avery. Looks like Avery has no future under Tort. Maybe they trade him to Edmonton.

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03-16-2011, 01:01 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Yeah it looked like Tortorella not only has issues, but has some serious hate for Avery. Looks like Avery has no future under Tort. Maybe they trade him to Edmonton.
Why will Avery ever accept a trade to go to Edmonton?

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03-16-2011, 01:29 AM
  #30
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You will want Avery come playoff time... The refs put their whistles in their pockets more often, and Avery is a gamer when it's on the line and in the spotlight he will do anything to win.... But I'm in favor of playing Wolski over Avery next game.

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03-16-2011, 01:44 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NYRAvery16NYR View Post
You will want Avery come playoff time... The refs put their whistles in their pockets more often, and Avery is a gamer when it's on the line and in the spotlight he will do anything to win.... But I'm in favor of playing Wolski over Avery next game.
His PIM/game average in the playoffs is only 20 seconds less than in the regular season.

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03-16-2011, 01:53 AM
  #32
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I hope so and I've been an Avery supporter and backer for a long time.

I don't hope so because I don't like him or I've soured on his game. I hope so because his main purpose has become redundant. That purpose? To bring emotion and fire into the game. This team doesn't need that from him. Prust, Callahan and Dubinsky do that just fine and do it with more on the scoresheet and more utility off the scoresheet. He's become obsolete.
Exactly. Back when he first came here we had a soft team. Now we don't. We don't need one guy to be extra hard nosed when the whole team is.

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03-16-2011, 02:15 AM
  #33
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The problem with avery is the bad penalties aren't isolated incidents that happen in blowout games. If you look through the game logs, you'll find plenty of times where he's done it in a close game.

I got nothing against the guy, but you'd have to be nuts to not see he does indeed have a problem with self control, and that's something a coach HAS to deal with.

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03-16-2011, 02:26 AM
  #34
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he's been awful for about 75-80% of this season. my patience is at its breaking point. he needs to step up and be the sean avery of old. the old sean avery pissed off the other team so bad that they were tryign to kill him on every shift. now he just takes stupid penalties and is a turnover machine. raise your game or GTFO.

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03-16-2011, 02:29 AM
  #35
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I certainly think Tortorella, in that situation, with a four goal lead in the 3rd, overreacted to Avery's penalty. But at the same time, you have to figure that Torts was thinking, "Damn, I took a big risk by scratching Wolski to give Avery a shot to show me something, and he goes out and takes three bad penalties in eight minutes of play?". I have a feeling Torts' reaction was really more so displaced disappointment than outright frustration with Avery's overall game. He wouldn't have put him in the lineup (and taken a legit offensive weapon out of it) if he didn't believe Avery could provide something positive to the team last night.

And you know what? As frustrated as the coach was, I can guarantee you that Avery is just as frustrated with himself for not stepping up to the opportunity. Avery, by virtue of his on-the-edge style of play, definitely has a tendency to do some bonehead things on the ice, but he's also a very savvy guy. He fully understands the difficult situation he's in with Tortorella in terms of his future with this team and the city he has adopted as his home. He's seen his minutes slowly drop, and his role on the team has slowly diminished. Since Torts has taken over, Avery has gone from being an everyday 3rd line pest with great speed and hidden offensive skills to being a neutered utility player who hasn't really taken advantage of the opportunities given to him. The guy has 3 goals in 69 games this year. Last year, in the same amount of games, he had 11. And I know his game isn't really about scoring, but that's a legit dropoff for a guy who for the majority of his career has displayed a decent ability to put the puck in the net and create chances.

But even offense aside, if you just look at his energy presence this year compared to years past, it just hasn't been there as much. Remember the times we used to hear "Avery!" chants at least two or three times a game at the Garden? I can't even remember the last time I heard his name chanted. I think he's pushing too hard and thinking too much, partly because his offensive confidence isn't there this year, and partly because he knows he's at a crossroads in his career and with this team and with his coach.

The best thing for him to do right now is not sulk or feel down. If he wants to get back in Tortorella's good graces and be a contributor on this team, he needs to practice hard and simply work his way back in. There's no other way to do it. Work hard at practice, first one in last one out. And when he's given another shot, whether it's two games from now or two weeks from now, he needs to translate that hard work into production on the ice.

I don't know. I get the feeling that if Avery doesn't bounce back from last night's performance, he will be shopped around or simply dumped in the offseason. In the long run, I could see him riding out the one year left on his contract (whether it's here or elsewhere), and then calling it quits with hockey.

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03-16-2011, 02:50 AM
  #36
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I too, believe he will probably retire after next season. Someone somewhere on the Rangers HF board said a few months ago that Avery has better things to do. It's true. He has a bar, clothing line, works with Vogue, starting a restaurant with Lundqvist, also he probably has other investments that he would want to be more active in.

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03-16-2011, 05:43 AM
  #37
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I believe Avery will stand at a crossroad this summer. Either he gives up on hockey, or he does a Boyle. Hires a figure skating coach, extra workout, extra shooting practices, everything.

Heck, just becoming a better skater would help him out immensely.

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03-16-2011, 06:51 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Yeah it looked like Tortorella not only has issues, but has some serious hate for Avery. Looks like Avery has no future under Tort. Maybe they trade him to Edmonton.
That would mean that Edmonton take the full cap hit right? 4mil, can't see that happening!

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03-16-2011, 07:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Honestly, I think its bull ****. I said it in the other thread. The roughing penalty at the end wasnt great, but it was essentially meaningless. It was a 4 goal game inside 5 minutes. Tortorella just looked like a hot head.

John Tortorella obviously has a vendetta against Avery. He even said it on TSN a few years ago. Tortorella has essentially destroyed Sean Avery. He was a very effective player.

The two other calls in this game were BS. The Islanders player turned his back a split second before the hit. Incidental contact caused the goalie interference.

Everyone here has cried about Avery not being the same. Well that player takes penalties, and bad ones at times. Tonights penalty would have been bad if it was a 1 goal game. But it was a 4 goal game.

Also, if Tortorella did not want anything to happen towards the end of the game, why even put Avery on the ice? Im sure he should understand that players are more likely to do stupid things when they have a big lead.

The main point is that John Tortorella obviously overreacted. If it had been ANY other player, would he have flipped out like such? I say no.
Take your blinders off man, that first penalty was a very dangerous play. He could have seriously injured that guy (forget who it was). The second call, the goaltender interference was a deserved penalty also. We would have been screaming if it happened to Hank. No one even pushed Avery. He took down the D, then looked like he was jumping out of an airplane right on top of Montoya. It looked like he was trying to save him from a mortar blast or some ish. I don't even hate Avery, but he was really bad last night.

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03-16-2011, 07:42 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Honestly, I think its bull ****. I said it in the other thread. The roughing penalty at the end wasnt great, but it was essentially meaningless. It was a 4 goal game inside 5 minutes. Tortorella just looked like a hot head.

John Tortorella obviously has a vendetta against Avery. He even said it on TSN a few years ago. Tortorella has essentially destroyed Sean Avery. He was a very effective player.

The two other calls in this game were BS. The Islanders player turned his back a split second before the hit. Incidental contact caused the goalie interference.

Everyone here has cried about Avery not being the same. Well that player takes penalties, and bad ones at times. Tonights penalty would have been bad if it was a 1 goal game. But it was a 4 goal game.

Also, if Tortorella did not want anything to happen towards the end of the game, why even put Avery on the ice? Im sure he should understand that players are more likely to do stupid things when they have a big lead.

The main point is that John Tortorella obviously overreacted. If it had been ANY other player, would he have flipped out like such? I say no.
I think you're blowing this out of proportion way more than torts blew the penalty out of proportion. how does everyone keep forgetting that when Torts first came here and avery was playing well he was constantly on our top two lines? He's playing bad, he doesn't seem to do much anymore, he doesn't even draw penalties like he used to. He just never seemed to learn how to make smart plays unless he was also making dumb plays and I can't blame Torts for not tolerating it. Even this year when he's played well he got rewarded with top ice time and first line minutes with gabs. It's unreasonable to claim there's some agenda against avery when he's a player for this team and gets good ice time when he plays well. Avery has been a fav of mine for years. He's just lost a lot of whatever made him, him and you can thank Bettman, the refs and the POS front offices for that not Torts.

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03-16-2011, 07:48 AM
  #41
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I think he's making a case for himself in a bad way, he'll be upstairs for the next few games for sure idk if he's done for the season. If sather can flip him for like a 3rd/4th somehow I'd be ecstatic because as long as he's on this team he's a guy that can play and brings something most dont, if he wasn't on the team we wouldn't have that dilemma. But he's not garbage he's a good player just not win any consistent style.

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03-16-2011, 07:48 AM
  #42
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Avery will be important in the POs. (If we make it) He's a PO's player. But, if Torts doesn't play him, then yea he's done.

There's plenty of guys in this league who do jack **** in the reg. but show up in the POs.

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03-16-2011, 07:51 AM
  #43
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first penalties he's taken in the last 12 games and this is the reaction?

Or should I say over reaction.

Holy crap the expectations some of you have for this guy.

Last game in which Avery has been penalized was back on February 11th against Atlanta (killed off)

He's a physical player that is going to sometimes cross the line. I for one have no issue with it in the sense that it happens to our guys often enough, to me I see it as an eye for an eye.

I liked that he bumped Montoya, I have no issue with the hit on Haley either as he is someone that is prone to doing that to our team as evidenced by his hit on Dubinsky later in the game.

Avery and his style have a place on the Rangers, no doubt in my mind.


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03-16-2011, 07:56 AM
  #44
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i think he held up a little bit on the boarding, bad penalty tho. He took okposo with him on the goalie interference which is a trade I'll take any day.

the third one....meh, game was over anyway although we could have done without it.

I really think the rangers need a good agitator, like the Avery that shows up every few games or so. Wish he could do it more consistently tho.

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03-16-2011, 08:08 AM
  #45
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He's played his way off this team. But it has nothing to do with last night. He's invisible and ineffective — which in a large part is because of Torts. If he's not playing with an edge, on the edge he doesn't add a lot to any team.

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03-16-2011, 08:25 AM
  #46
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Avery was a dummy last night, no doubt about it.

I was saying i could live with Wolski being out last night, but it turned out they could have used him in such a high chance game. As always, Avery stunted the flow of the game for the Rangers.

But like SBOB said, it isnt one game thats going to spell his demise, its the whole season.

I've said a hundred times if theres one player who single-handedly ruins the possession and offensive flow of this team on a nightly basis - its Avery. The giveaways, the bone-headed penalties (always at the worst times), the constant offsides and icings, the unnecessary scrums... and every time hes guilty of something, he has that look like he is shocked at the call - its really getting annoying. Everyone on the team, for the most part - keeps the game moving in the right direction for the Rangers - not him. He tried to stir it up last night and he failed miserably.

Love Torts reaction when he was on his way back to the bench after that Islander goal - LOL priceless.

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03-16-2011, 08:29 AM
  #47
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Avery was a dummy last night, no doubt about it.

I was saying i could live with Wolski being out last night, but it turned out they could have used him in such a high chance game. As always, Avery stunted the flow of the game for the Rangers.

But like SBOB said, it isnt one game thats going to spell his demise, its the whole season.

I've said a hundred times if theres one player who single-handedly ruins the possession and offensive flow of this team on a nightly basis - its Avery. The giveaways, the bone-headed penalties (always at the worst times), the constant offsides and icings, the unnecessary scrums... and every time hes guilty of something, he has that look like he is shocked at the call - its really getting annoying. Everyone on the team, for the most part - keeps the game moving in the right direction for the Rangers - not him. He tried to stir it up last night and he failed miserably.

Love Torts reaction when he was on his way back to the bench after that Islander goal - LOL priceless.
The first penalty was terrible and he looked ridiculous arguing the call.

But the larger issue is, he has a definite target on his back so I fail to see what playing safe does for him.

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03-16-2011, 08:31 AM
  #48
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I don't think Torts hates Avery because if he did he would never put him on the 1st line through the yr and also he would not bench him for 1 game and then put him back in

the pt was to wake him up and instead he ran around like a dummy and took stupid penalties so with that put Wolskii back in and let Avery learn a lesson

Regardless he has a yr left on his deal so say hi to your 4th line LW who can slide up on other lines when needed. After that he's a goner for sure

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03-16-2011, 08:50 AM
  #49
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I think you're blowing this out of proportion way more than torts blew the penalty out of proportion. how does everyone keep forgetting that when Torts first came here and avery was playing well he was constantly on our top two lines? He's playing bad, he doesn't seem to do much anymore, he doesn't even draw penalties like he used to. He just never seemed to learn how to make smart plays unless he was also making dumb plays and I can't blame Torts for not tolerating it. Even this year when he's played well he got rewarded with top ice time and first line minutes with gabs. It's unreasonable to claim there's some agenda against avery when he's a player for this team and gets good ice time when he plays well. Avery has been a fav of mine for years. He's just lost a lot of whatever made him, him and you can thank Bettman, the refs and the POS front offices for that not Torts.
was about to post almost the exact same thing

the whole "vendetta against Avery" thing makes perfect sense, unless you think about it

he hasnt played good....thats all there is to it

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03-16-2011, 08:59 AM
  #50
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Not sure I see the big deal. Michael Haley may be a bigger version of Avery--in any case going off with Okposo the second time was no big deal. The dumb penalty at the end wasn't going to make a difference in the outcome of the game. Torts can overdo it at times. In any case he can sit Avery next game and bring back Wolski.

The other issue is Avery's ability to effect games in a positive sense for the Rangers and we're not seeing a lot of that. A few years ago there were people complaining about him because of his habit of turning games into wars--with teams actively trying to hunt him down and/or taking out their frustrations on collateral individuals on our team. A lot of them hated Avery back then for that but back then was when his place in our lineup meant a much higher winning %. The Avery we have now is not much of a difference maker. Hard to say why exactly that is--I can think of several things--1. Tort's reining him in--2. physical abuse to Avery's body over the years slowing him down--3. Avery's outside interests getting in the way of his game--4. much more intelligent coaching around the league centering on not getting players to react as much--5. the referees and the league signalling him out for special treatment.

He's not tradeable for a variety of reasons. No one wants to pay $4 mil for even one year for a 3rd line--4th line player. And there are not too many teams that Avery would be happy going to and gm's around the league know this. I can definitely see that next year may be Avery's last year. To continue on after that he will probably have to go somewhere else and take a big pay cut.

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