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Old
03-16-2011, 01:30 AM
  #101
TonySCV
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Coming in peace...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
You guys are hilarious, we lose a game after winning two in a row and the sky is falling again. Oh no, there's no way we can make the playoffs, we're 1 point out of 8th with two games in hand, it's impossible.
You are absolutely right.

1. You have a VERY favorable schedule down the stretch.
2. Dallas has a BRUTAL schedule down the stretch.
3. Anaheim is in deep trouble without Hiller (vertigo).
4. Calgary is artificially high in the standings.
5. You have Rinne.

Assuming the law of averages comes through yet again, you're making the playoffs. You're effectively in 8th already if you look at points blown vs. points earned, which makes the standings far easier to digest: http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/20...real-standings

You just need to win your share of games... Calgary will fall to 9th soon enough and Dallas will likely fall further as well. Stay ahead of Anaheim and you're golden.

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Old
03-16-2011, 01:40 AM
  #102
Broom of the System
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Coming in peace...



You are absolutely right.

1. You have a VERY favorable schedule down the stretch.
2. Dallas has a BRUTAL schedule down the stretch.
3. Anaheim is in deep trouble without Hiller (vertigo).
4. Calgary is artificially high in the standings.
5. You have Rinne.

Assuming the law of averages comes through yet again, you're making the playoffs. You're effectively in 8th already if you look at points blown vs. points earned, which makes the standings far easier to digest: http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/20...real-standings

You just need to win your share of games... Calgary will fall to 9th soon enough and Dallas will likely fall further as well. Stay ahead of Anaheim and you're golden.
Exactly. At this point, I think we have an excellent shot to make the playoffs. Advancing past the first round is another story of course, but barring a collapse from us, I say we're in. Probably in the 7th or 8th spot, but I feel pretty confident that we'll be there.

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03-16-2011, 01:56 AM
  #103
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Suter says grab the rope and pull.

http://blogs.tennessean.com/predator...g-on-the-rope/

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03-16-2011, 02:41 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
You guys are hilarious, we lose a game after winning two in a row and the sky is falling again. Oh no, there's no way we can make the playoffs, we're 1 point out of 8th with two games in hand, it's impossible.
Ain't that the truth!

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03-16-2011, 07:39 AM
  #105
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I didnt get to watch or listen but it sounds like we played a decent game, limited their shots pretty well, and just had a bad night for pekka to be ordinary.

calgary doing us a favor by sucking wind.

Hiller has vertigo? seriously? hmmm....

Not a disaster, but now we really must beat Boston or Detroit.(or preferably both)

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:25 AM
  #106
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I would love to drink the Kool Aid Trotz spewed forth in his post game last night. I don't know what game he was watching and some of you were watching. Sure, we outshot them 10-1 at one point but we were getting one shot and no second chances. You're not going to win many games doing that unless that first shot is pretty damn good. If that's the intensity we're going to bring with a dozen or so games remaining and fighting for a playoff spot, we have no business going. We had a moment or two last night where the crowd was into the game but for the most part, it was boring as hell to watch.

1. We played a dump and chase against a team that is bigger than us and once they get the puck, move it quickly and efficiently nullifying our forecheck. When we did carry the puck into the zone, we had some success. Don't know why we didn't make that sort of adjustment.

2. When we are playing well as a team we roll 4 lines one after another and it's seamless in our approach. We had 4 totally different lines playing last night. Not everyone was buying into the program. Can't have that. It's all or nothing.

3. After we got it to 3-2, we lost momentum, IMO, but putting out Spaling, Smithson and Spaling. Trotz went for the "matchup" as opposed to getting a more offensive unit out on the ice to capitalize on the momentum from scoring a goal. When you're down in a game by a goal with 7 or 8 to go, you have to roll your offensive lines more. Putting out a grind/defensive line cost us some momentum.

4. Why does Trotz continue to put Fisher and SK on the same line? While they get some decent opportunities together, they are not producing. That combo needs to be broken up. Opportunities are not scores and that's what we need.

5. For that matter, most of the night I don't think the lines were really clicking all that much. The one time I think Trotz should shuffle his lines more he leaves them alone.

Like I said earlier, 12 games or so left in the season, fighting for the playoffs and not everyone bringing their "A" game. Time for everyone to look in the mirror and realize if we're gonna make it, 18 guys on the ice that play D and F are going to have to bring it.

The other thing that annoys me is Willy talking about our youth. Sure we have a few young players but they are being shielded for the most part and the other ones have a fair amount of experience already. Hornqvist, SK, Spaling and Wilson are getting big minutes but all have played at this level for a while now. While not seasoned vets, Horn and SK have a few seasons under their belts and Bam Bam and Hali are getting limited minutes. Blum is fine even with his inexperience. Franson and SOB are still liabilities out there.

I'm glad they spent a lot of time at practice on Monday paying attention to detail because it really paid off last night.

To take a quote from Trotz, I didn't see enough urgency or guys going to the hard areas last night. How often do I watch and see three guys playing down low with no one in front of the net. We need to learn to park someone there at all times, even strength and the PP. That way if we do win a battle along the boards, we have someone out front causing havoc and occupying a defenseman creating space for the other guys on the ice.

Three tough opponents ahead. I hope we're up for the challenge.

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:47 AM
  #107
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Where did the physical play go?

I felt like we dominated the first period. They got the one goal off the face-off but really didn't have much sustained pressures. I thought part of that was we were playing a really clean, but really physical brand of hockey. Tootoo laid a couple of big checks, and Weber absolutely destroyed Ponackerovsky (I think), and the crowd was going absolutely nuts.

But after the first intermission, I don't think we laid another big hit. Why? Think Trotz told them to play nice lest the other team "take numbers?"

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:50 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobears19 View Post
I felt like we dominated the first period. They got the one goal off the face-off but really didn't have much sustained pressures. I thought part of that was we were playing a really clean, but really physical brand of hockey. Tootoo laid a couple of big checks, and Weber absolutely destroyed Ponackerovsky (I think), and the crowd was going absolutely nuts.

But after the first intermission, I don't think we laid another big hit. Why? Think Trotz told them to play nice lest the other team "take numbers?"
I ultimately think we don't play a physical game because it would effect our forecheck. If we finish checks, guys would get tied up with the man they're checking instead of being able to peel off of them and get back defensively. That's the only thing I can figure. It's funny because Tootoo was playing physical in the first and hardly laid a check after that as you noted. When Tootoo is playing like a little ball of hate, he's much more effective and the other team is looking over their shoulder. If they know he's not going to lay a hit, they have that extra second to make a play without any consequence.

Come playoff time physical play is going to get amped up and we're not going to know how to play that style, yet again.

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:55 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I would love to drink the Kool Aid Trotz spewed forth in his post game last night. I don't know what game he was watching and some of you were watching. Sure, we outshot them 10-1 at one point but we were getting one shot and no second chances. You're not going to win many games doing that unless that first shot is pretty damn good. If that's the intensity we're going to bring with a dozen or so games remaining and fighting for a playoff spot, we have no business going. We had a moment or two last night where the crowd was into the game but for the most part, it was boring as hell to watch.
Gotta disagree. I thought we had some glorious chances but we couldn't bury our 2nd chances. And then we were stopped on our initial chances quite a bit. There is no telling how many times our guys carried the puck into the slot and didn't finish. I'd say 9 times out of 10 we win this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
3. After we got it to 3-2, we lost momentum, IMO, but putting out Spaling, Smithson and Spaling. Trotz went for the "matchup" as opposed to getting a more offensive unit out on the ice to capitalize on the momentum from scoring a goal. When you're down in a game by a goal with 7 or 8 to go, you have to roll your offensive lines more. Putting out a grind/defensive line cost us some momentum.
Also disagree. Spaling-Smithson-Tootoo gave us energy ALL NIGHT LONG. Everytime they were out there they forechecked hard and caused turnovers and caused the LA guys to get stuck in their zone for a while. Teams are most vulnerable at allowing goals on the shift after they score. I would have done the same thing if i were trotz (especially since our 2nd and 4th lines i thought got outplayed last night)

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The other thing that annoys me is Willy talking about our youth. Sure we have a few young players but they are being shielded for the most part and the other ones have a fair amount of experience already. Hornqvist, SK, Spaling and Wilson are getting big minutes but all have played at this level for a while now.
Horn is 24, SK is 23, Spaling is 22, and Wilson is 21. If those are our experienced guys... We are young man.

Fisher, Legwand, Erat, Tootoo, and Smithson are the only true vets that I see on this team (outside of JP who rarely plays). This is a young team. I actually think I read somewhere we are the 2nd youngest in the NHL behind NYI.

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:59 AM
  #110
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I'm usually a Franson supporter but last night he was awful, completely lost in his own zone.

Legwand, who I'm also a fan of was completely mandhandled, he obviously was oversized in the match-ups last night.

From top to bottom we didn't handle their size well.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:02 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Horn is 24, SK is 23, Spaling is 22, and Wilson is 21. If those are our experienced guys... We are young man.

Fisher, Legwand, Erat, Tootoo, and Smithson are the only true vets that I see on this team (outside of JP who rarely plays). This is a young team. I actually think I read somewhere we are the 2nd youngest in the NHL behind NYI.
Youth and NHL game experience are two different things. SK has been in the league how long now? I know what you're saying about the actual age but I'm going on game experience.

Funny thing is you watch guys like Blum and Spaling and you don't note their age because of the maturity in their games but then I watch Franson and Wilson and shudder. Heck, even SOB who is somewhat of a seasoned vet I cringe at.

I don't know, I watched this game and felt the team was pretty uninspired for a large part of the game and in a playoff race, you can't take your foot off the pedal for more than a few seconds or the other team will pass you by. It's a 60 minute game this time of year and I think we may have played hard for about 25-30 minutes of it. The first period and from when we scored the second goal til the end of the game. That's not going to get it done, regardless of youth, experience or skill. Have to have the effort for a full 60.

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03-16-2011, 09:03 AM
  #112
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couple of things....

1. after the physical flurry we had at the end of the first, you could see both refs talking to shea as he skated to the bench. then the first shift of the second both talk to tootoo. I don't think trotz had anything to do with it, I think the refs took control of the game before the hits got real dirty. Sucks for us since we were the ones banging real well, but the refs did their job for once. kudos to them.

2. if ward is out any length of time, kostitsyn needs to skate with legwand and erat. ward and hornquist, while we want to put on blinders and think they play the same game because both are found around ur net, don't. Ward is tough on the boards and is smart about when to go to the net. Hornquist is not. It is either take a weak slapshot from the top of the faceoff circle that is unscreened or go to the front of the net and get mugged. He is terrible on the boards. And he is slower than ward, which doesn't help things either. Kostitstyn is much quicker, and sadly, stronger on the boards. I think i think those three would be solid. I would like to see smithson-spaling-halischuck on a line and fisher-hornquist-tootoo. for some reason I just have a feeling those three could work together.

3. I think the loudest pop anything got last night was the weatherman for his beautiful forecast.

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03-16-2011, 09:05 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I'm usually a Franson supporter but last night he was awful, completely lost in his own zone.

Legwand, who I'm also a fan of was completely mandhandled, he obviously was oversized in the match-ups last night.
From top to bottom we didn't handle their size well.
we noticed where we were how easily he was rubbed off the puck last night, especially early in the game. he was terrible. didn't seem to have the legs. didn't know if it was having to deal with kopitar, handzus and the rest of behemoths LA has. He seemed to get better as the game wore on, but skated nothing like he has the past few weeks.

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03-16-2011, 09:09 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
couple of things....

1. after the physical flurry we had at the end of the first, you could see both refs talking to shea as he skated to the bench. then the first shift of the second both talk to tootoo. I don't think trotz had anything to do with it, I think the refs took control of the game before the hits got real dirty. Sucks for us since we were the ones banging real well, but the refs did their job for once. kudos to them.

2. if ward is out any length of time, kostitsyn needs to skate with legwand and erat. ward and hornquist, while we want to put on blinders and think they play the same game because both are found around ur net, don't. Ward is tough on the boards and is smart about when to go to the net. Hornquist is not. It is either take a weak slapshot from the top of the faceoff circle that is unscreened or go to the front of the net and get mugged. He is terrible on the boards. And he is slower than ward, which doesn't help things either. Kostitstyn is much quicker, and sadly, stronger on the boards. I think i think those three would be solid. I would like to see smithson-spaling-halischuck on a line and fisher-hornquist-tootoo. for some reason I just have a feeling those three could work together.

3. I think the loudest pop anything got last night was the weatherman for his beautiful forecast.
If that's the case then Trotz needs to be on the refs and be like, those were good clean hits and you can't have the refs saying we can't play that way. That's BS. It seems to happen every game though. While I don't want to see cheap hits, both the hits at the end of the first were good clean hits. Other teams play physical and get away with that, why do we have to accept that? It's a physical game. The refs certainly let Hornqvist get pummeled night after night without warning to the opposition so why does it only pertain to us? Trotz needs to send a message to the refs if they're going to regulate our play, the opposition needs to have the same warning.

What was it, last game that Hornqvist gets crosschecked into the air on a PP and no call? The inconsistency of the refs is unbearable sometimes. They let a lot of interference plays go by the way side last night. We had guys dumping and going for the puck and getting held up physically with no calls.

I agree on points 2 and 3 wholeheartedly.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
we noticed where we were how easily he was rubbed off the puck last night, especially early in the game. he was terrible. didn't seem to have the legs. didn't know if it was having to deal with kopitar, handzus and the rest of behemoths LA has. He seemed to get better as the game wore on, but skated nothing like he has the past few weeks.
No open ice for him and Erat to operate in. For whatever reason, Ward with those two works and it opens up the ice. With Horny, the ice never opened up.

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03-16-2011, 09:15 AM
  #116
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Not sure exactly what Sutes meant. Is he saying some guys aren't playing within the system or performing? Or that some guys aren't giving effort?

I was more than a little surprised by his statement. Since we unloaded Arnott, I never thought lack of effort would present itself with this group. Maybe he meant guys are trying to do too much because they're frustrated.

I'm going to look at this positively. Suter is a leader and veteran presence on this team. Maybe with a little prodding, he (and Weber) can get these guys to shift into a higher gear down the stretch.

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03-16-2011, 09:20 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Not sure exactly what Sutes meant. Is he saying some guys aren't playing within the system or performing? Or that some guys aren't giving effort?

I was more than a little surprised by his statement. Since we unloaded Arnott, I never thought lack of effort would present itself with this group. Maybe he meant guys are trying to do too much because they're frustrated.

I'm going to look at this positively. Suter is a leader and veteran presence on this team. Maybe with a little prodding, he (and Weber) can get these guys to shift into a higher gear down the stretch.
I took it to mean that some guys were not playing the team game, which is understandable considering how many times, kostitsyn, hornquist, erat, wilson, etc all tried to stickhandle around 2-3 kings players and either get a pathetic shot off or turn it over into an odd man rush

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03-16-2011, 09:24 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Youth and NHL game experience are two different things. SK has been in the league how long now? I know what you're saying about the actual age but I'm going on game experience.

It's a 60 minute game this time of year and I think we may have played hard for about 25-30 minutes of it. The first period and from when we scored the second goal til the end of the game. That's not going to get it done, regardless of youth, experience or skill. Have to have the effort for a full 60.
On your first point. I still disagree about NHL experience. There is a reason why these guys go to the AHL for a while before they get to the NHL. They have to learn to be a professional and be consistent -- whether that is at the NHL or AHL level it takes time. They are still young. You can't just "skip" youth by adding NHL experience.

On your 2nd point, I agree that we didn't play a 60 minute game. But I felt like we played at least a 40-45 minute game. At what point do you give it to LA? Their size and forecheck KILLED our wingers on the boards in the d-zone all night long. It wasn't because of effort. The effort was there... LA had their legs churning and we didn't (because we were trapped in our d-zone and chasing the puck) at that point.

Calm down guys. It is one flipping game. One point out of 8th with 12 games to go. Let's try and take one (I say take one because I give us the underdog against Boston) point or win on Thursday.


Token: I agree about Horn. He killed that line all night long. Leggy and Erat need someone to go into the dirty areas and fish the puck out from the corners and go to the net. I wish Wilson would sharpen his game so that he could do it. I even think Fisher might could do it for these guys. But we know Fisher and Leggy wouldn't ever be on the same line. So I agree, I do think it should be SK. They would at least be good at passing and puck possession in the O-zone.


Last edited by utmfisher19: 03-16-2011 at 09:37 AM. Reason: 12 games and not 11 games left
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Old
03-16-2011, 01:56 PM
  #119
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Lots of good discussion about the game.
One things is for certain: Preds do NOT match up well against LA. We better hope if this team sniffs the post-season we don't draw them. I am afraid it would be all too much like those series vs. SJS. Must be a combination of their physical size/strength and system. Did you notice how wide open the flow was thru most of the game? This is not how this team usually plays. I felt the Kings forced us to play their style instead of the Preds imposing their style on the game. And I agree Horny killed the mojo of Legwand and Erat. He is not a good fit for those two.

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03-16-2011, 03:07 PM
  #120
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What has changed so much from last year (us beating them basically every time)?

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03-16-2011, 04:07 PM
  #121
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What has changed so much from last year (us beating them basically every time)?
the difference is a few things from last to this year.

1. Sadly, Jason arnott played the big bodies well-the Thorntons, etc. We have no center that does that well. Legwand can keep up with the datsyuks, sedins, etc, because he doesn't have to use his body. for whatever reason Arnott was effective when he wanted to be.

2. Frolov is gone. dude is a cancer. better lockerroom

3. doughty and Johnson a year older (so are our guys, difference is their forwards are getting better too, and ours are not better than last year) Also include guys like Simmonds and Bernier being older and more mature.

4. Added some nasty to their D. two years ago added Scuderi, last year mitchell.

5. Penner makes them better too. aniother big body to go along with what they already have.

6. On the pred side, our skill is declining-dumont, sullivan, arnott. Sure, SK, wilson, and franson all have fancy hands, but they stickhandle right into trouble.



We can overanalyze last night all we want, but bottom line is they are just as fast as we are, much heavier, and worked hard. We always say when a more talented team works just as hard as us, we lose. That sums up last night

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03-16-2011, 04:18 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
the difference is a few things from last to this year.

1. Sadly, Jason arnott played the big bodies well-the Thorntons, etc. We have no center that does that well. Legwand can keep up with the datsyuks, sedins, etc, because he doesn't have to use his body. for whatever reason Arnott was effective when he wanted to be.

2. Frolov is gone. dude is a cancer. better lockerroom

3. doughty and Johnson a year older (so are our guys, difference is their forwards are getting better too, and ours are not better than last year) Also include guys like Simmonds and Bernier being older and more mature.

4. Added some nasty to their D. two years ago added Scuderi, last year mitchell.

5. Penner makes them better too. aniother big body to go along with what they already have.

6. On the pred side, our skill is declining-dumont, sullivan, arnott. Sure, SK, wilson, and franson all have fancy hands, but they stickhandle right into trouble.



We can overanalyze last night all we want, but bottom line is they are just as fast as we are, much heavier, and worked hard. We always say when a more talented team works just as hard as us, we lose. That sums up last night
How long will it take us to get bigger more talented forwards onto our current team ? ... we don't have any big bodies that are skilled on our current roster or in our system

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03-16-2011, 08:02 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
How long will it take us to get bigger more talented forwards onto our current team ? ... we don't have any big bodies that are skilled on our current roster or in our system
Colin Wilson and Taylor Beck say Hi.

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03-16-2011, 08:05 PM
  #124
predfan24
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Also being big in hockey is completely overrated. As long as you have a very strong core and lower body if you of at least decent size it won't make a huge difference. Look at Sidney Crosby. 5'11 200 pounds but an absolute beast the guy has legs like tree trunks and dominates.

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03-16-2011, 08:31 PM
  #125
don28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Also being big in hockey is completely overrated. As long as you have a very strong core and lower body if you of at least decent size it won't make a huge difference. Look at Sidney Crosby. 5'11 200 pounds but an absolute beast the guy has legs like tree trunks and dominates.
I disagree. Crosby is a once in a generation type of talent. The average and above average NHL player can use their size to leverage an advantage. The Preds have a dearth of players who actually use their size to their advantage. It's why those big, physical team like San Jose and L.A. can outmuscle the Preds when they're motivated.


Last edited by don28: 03-16-2011 at 09:30 PM. Reason: spelling error
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