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Has Avery Just Played Himself Off This Team?

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:13 AM
  #51
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The good news about Avery's penalties was that was 6 minutes we gained on-sides.

And I don't think Tortorella overreacted at all. There was still a good chunk of time left and the Isles can score goals. I was nervous as hell when he got that last penalty. Haley definitely helped out that boarding call, but Aves should know better especially with recent events and how sensitive a play this is anymore.

I don't know what to think of Aves now. I've always liked the guy. When he's on, he's real effective, but those games seem few and far between these days. He just doesn't seem in it 100%.

What do I know though? I just watch the games.

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03-16-2011, 09:22 AM
  #52
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Its hard to believe how people dont remember the facts. When Tortorella arrived, one of his major points was to keep Avery on a leash. If you deny this fact, you are wrong. Regardless of his performance on the ice, which is a little below statistical average for Avery, the most important part of Avery's game, why every one like him was the edge that he brought each and every night. He would get in guys faces and talk a whole lot of ****. The longer Tortorella has coached him, the less involved Avery has gotten in the games. Sean Avery needs to play that crazy, in your face style to be worth keeping in the NHL. He has his moments now, but he largely stays away from the confrontations. Without the scrums and **** talking, he is just a 30 point scorer, who's 'hockey IQ' is below average. Now whether you want to think that its because of the coach or not is up to you. But last night's 'Torts' explosion pretty much proves that he is giving Avery absolutely no chance to mix it up at all.

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03-16-2011, 09:34 AM
  #53
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Time for Avery to sit for a while. He is not getting under the other team's skin, he is not contributing to the offense, he is not sticking up for teammates and he is taking dumb penalties. Would rather see Wolski play or even Gilroy as a 7th dman/4th line forward hybrid.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:00 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Three moronic penalties in an otherwise good game. Instead of cruising to a win the Rangers now have to fight through the rest of the game for no reason except Avery's stupidity.

I've usually been an Avery defender because I don't think he's nearly as dirty as he's made out to be. And at his best he's a pretty good player. But he has this infantile need to be the center of attention which has become too detrimental.
Torts and everyone here needs to cut him some slack. Mucking it up and creating havoc is his game and sometimes he will end up in the box. Dibenedetti (or however you spell it) is an agitator as well. If you cannot take a shot at a guy with a four goal lead with 5 minutes left in the 3rd when can you? We don't know what happened during the game that led Aves to going after this guy.

I know when we are down three or up three late in games I want to see us settle scores if they exist. I have no problem with that penalty and the other two were him crashing the crease which I'm fine with as well. He needs to play on the edge to be effective and he did. So what?

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03-16-2011, 10:07 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Torts and everyone here needs to cut him some slack. Mucking it up and creating havoc is his game and sometimes he will end up in the box. Dibenedetti (or however you spell it) is an agitator as well. If you cannot take a shot at a guy with a four goal lead with 5 minutes left in the 3rd when can you? We don't know what happened during the game that led Aves to going after this guy.

I know when we are down three or up three late in games I want to see us settle scores if they exist. I have no problem with that penalty and the other two were him crashing the crease which I'm fine with as well. He needs to play on the edge to be effective and he did. So what?
But Torts isn't going to cut him slack. As a result, Avery has become marginalized and really doesn't do much to help the team win.

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03-16-2011, 10:09 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
first penalties he's taken in the last 12 games and this is the reaction?

Or should I say over reaction.

Holy crap the expectations some of you have for this guy.

Last game in which Avery has been penalized was back on February 11th against Atlanta (killed off)

He's a physical player that is going to sometimes cross the line. I for one have no issue with it in the sense that it happens to our guys often enough, to me I see it as an eye for an eye.

I liked that he bumped Montoya, I have no issue with the hit on Haley either as he is someone that is prone to doing that to our team as evidenced by his hit on Dubinsky later in the game.

Avery and his style have a place on the Rangers, no doubt in my mind.
Exactly. the hit on Haley was not that dangerous and he was going to hit him in the shoulder and at the last second he turned. Watch the replay. The goalie interference was borderline; he made contact with the D and fell into Montoya; he didn't run him. And the third one might have been payback with a 4 goal lead late in the game. Torts has to have more confidence that his team can hold a lead late and let that penalty slide off his back. In a one or two goal game different story but c'mon.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:13 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Exactly. the hit on Haley was not that dangerous and he was going to hit him in the shoulder and at the last second he turned. Watch the replay. The goalie interference was borderline; he made contact with the D and fell into Montoya; he didn't run him. And the third one might have been payback with a 4 goal lead late in the game. Torts has to have more confidence that his team can hold a lead late and let that penalty slide off his back. In a one or two goal game different story but c'mon.
The hit on Hailey was a clear penalty and it was dangerous. Only question was whether it was boarding or interference as Hailey never touched the puck. It was a stupid play and the exact kind of hit that's under scrutiny these days.

The second penalty is the kind he's going to get called for — right or wrong. That's why I fail to see why Torts is trying to get him to play safer as he's going to get penalties called on him anyway.

The third penalty was completely avoidable.

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03-16-2011, 10:16 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But Torts isn't going to cut him slack. As a result, Avery has become marginalized and really doesn't do much to help the team win.
that is true. In the third he crashed the net redirected a puck and came within a millimeter of scoring (the puck hit the edge of the goalie's skate and went just wide). If he scores does everyone's mood change? Last night one of the Penguins kicked the puck into the net and it counted similar to Avery's disallowed goal where the puck hit his skate in the air (although it did look like he kicked it). If Toronto gives him the goal is he cut more slack?

He is unique especially in a long series where the hate builds up. Prust is a tough guy but he's not an agitator. Aves is really our only agitator and every team needs one. Zucc has the potential to drive people crazy as well. Guys are always going after him after the whistle.

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03-16-2011, 10:18 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The hit on Hailey was a clear penalty and it was dangerous. Only question was whether it was boarding or interference as Hailey never touched the puck. It was a stupid play and the exact kind of hit that's under scrutiny these days.

The second penalty is the kind he's going to get called for right or wrong. That's why I fail to see why Torts is trying to get him to play safer as he's going to get penalties called on him anyway.

The third penalty was completely avoidable.
I disagree on the Haley hit. You could argue (and they used to more often before this focus on hits to the head and from behind) that Haley turned his back to Avery at the last second when he was already committed to the hit. Watch the replay, he didn't see his back until the absolute last second. If you're going to play physical, these types of hits will happen from time to time. They used to swallow the whistle and say the player turned and therefore was responsible for the hit being from behind.

The last penalty was avoidable but with a 4 goal lead I'll assume he had a reason to go after that pest.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:19 AM
  #60
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Great post..wrong forum..this forum does not like chippy play or aggressive play..up by 4 with 5 minutes to play,whats wrong with a high stick to the face or a cheap shot? that stuff has been going on forever but the new fans..the VN's dont approve..its not part of NHL 2K11 or whatever its called...in the old days when playing Philly you didnt want to be up by 4 or losing by 4 at the end of the game..because all hell would break loose..lots of clubs played that way..now you cant even take a "mean" or "tough" penalty at the end of a blowout because it will blow up these message boards calling for a lifetime band of Avery..welcome to the new NHL..





Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Torts and everyone here needs to cut him some slack. Mucking it up and creating havoc is his game and sometimes he will end up in the box. Dibenedetti (or however you spell it) is an agitator as well. If you cannot take a shot at a guy with a four goal lead with 5 minutes left in the 3rd when can you? We don't know what happened during the game that led Aves to going after this guy.

I know when we are down three or up three late in games I want to see us settle scores if they exist. I have no problem with that penalty and the other two were him crashing the crease which I'm fine with as well. He needs to play on the edge to be effective and he did. So what?

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03-16-2011, 10:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
that is true. In the third he crashed the net redirected a puck and came within a millimeter of scoring (the puck hit the edge of the goalie's skate and went just wide). If he scores does everyone's mood change? Last night one of the Penguins kicked the puck into the net and it counted similar to Avery's disallowed goal where the puck hit his skate in the air (although it did look like he kicked it). If Toronto gives him the goal is he cut more slack?

He is unique especially in a long series where the hate builds up. Prust is a tough guy but he's not an agitator. Aves is really our only agitator and every team needs one. Zucc has the potential to drive people crazy as well. Guys are always going after him after the whistle.
If scores last night does my mood change? No. Like I said, last night didn't change a lot in my mind about him. He's had a bad season. He's had an ineffective season. There are any number of reasons for that, but at this point he didn't bring much to the ice. He's a bit like Lindros was at the end — in order to be effective he needs to play in a way where there are risks and concerns. What I don't understand is he's getting called for penalties regardless of the way he's playing.

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03-16-2011, 10:22 AM
  #62
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Great post..wrong forum..this forum does not like chippy play or aggressive play..up by 4 with 5 minutes to play,whats wrong with a high stick to the face or a cheap shot? that stuff has been going on forever but the new fans..the VN's dont approve..its not part of NHL 2K11 or whatever its called...in the old days when playing Philly you didnt want to be up by 4 or losing by 4 at the end of the game..because all hell would break loose..lots of clubs played that way..now you cant even take a "mean" or "tough" penalty at the end of a blowout because it will blow up these message boards calling for a lifetime band of Avery..welcome to the new NHL..

Of course what Avery did was neither chippy nor aggressive.

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03-16-2011, 10:24 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I disagree on the Haley hit. You could argue (and they used to more often before this focus on hits to the head and from behind) that Haley turned his back to Avery at the last second when he was already committed to the hit. Watch the replay, he didn't see his back until the absolute last second. If you're going to play physical, these types of hits will happen from time to time. They used to swallow the whistle and say the player turned and therefore was responsible for the hit being from behind.
Agree to disagree on the Hailey hit. That said, it was a penalty regardless as Hailey never touched the puck.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:24 AM
  #64
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Exactly. the hit on Haley was not that dangerous and he was going to hit him in the shoulder and at the last second he turned. Watch the replay. The goalie interference was borderline; he made contact with the D and fell into Montoya; he didn't run him. And the third one might have been payback with a 4 goal lead late in the game. Torts has to have more confidence that his team can hold a lead late and let that penalty slide off his back. In a one or two goal game different story but c'mon.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to defend Avery. How you could possibly defend the first penalty, is beyond me. The third penalty was something even worse, stupidity.

You can try to justify his antics at the end of the game all you want, but I think Torts' reaction was pretty cut and dry in regards to how he felt.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:27 AM
  #65
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Let me make myself clear..I do not favor hits from behind along the boards..
No room in Hockey for that..Other than that..bring it.

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03-16-2011, 10:34 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
first penalties he's taken in the last 12 games and this is the reaction?

Or should I say over reaction.

Holy crap the expectations some of you have for this guy.

Last game in which Avery has been penalized was back on February 11th against Atlanta (killed off)

He's a physical player that is going to sometimes cross the line. I for one have no issue with it in the sense that it happens to our guys often enough, to me I see it as an eye for an eye.

I liked that he bumped Montoya, I have no issue with the hit on Haley either as he is someone that is prone to doing that to our team as evidenced by his hit on Dubinsky later in the game.

Avery and his style have a place on the Rangers, no doubt in my mind.
That place is in the stands. He has been garbage except for his first visit here. That and dancing in front of Brodeur endeared him to some fans. Ever since his meltdown against the Caps I have hated him.

Good to see that most are agreeing with me now. Prust is what Avery supporters wish he was. Time for the sideshow to close.

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03-16-2011, 10:44 AM
  #67
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Lets go to his bar or whatever and let him know how bad he is making the team play lol

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03-16-2011, 10:54 AM
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The first penalty was a little dumb, but if (and i may be a big "if") Haley then boarded Dubinsky as payback, which gave us a powerplay - that i think we scored on (iirc?), then Avery's actions could be credited with causing the opposing team to react in a way that benefits us.

the second penalty cannot be looked at without the resulting Okposo penalty. A great trade off in my opinion. Even if it is, taking a chance to bump, knock, or rattle a young, unproven goalie can have a positive result.....or it can backfire.

as stated already, the third penalty .... inconsequential in a game that was already over. may have been payback, who knows.

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03-16-2011, 11:11 AM
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The first penalty was a little dumb, but if (and i may be a big "if") Haley then boarded Dubinsky as payback, which gave us a powerplay - that i think we scored on (iirc?), then Avery's actions could be credited with causing the opposing team to react in a way that benefits us.

the second penalty cannot be looked at without the resulting Okposo penalty. A great trade off in my opinion. Even if it is, taking a chance to bump, knock, or rattle a young, unproven goalie can have a positive result.....or it can backfire.

as stated already, the third penalty .... inconsequential in a game that was already over. may have been payback, who knows.
Your post is what annoys me about pro avery spins. They never include how he helps. They are usually saying things likw what he did was not hat bad. Talk about backhanded compliments.

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03-16-2011, 11:13 AM
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I didn't see the whole game but I did see Avery's first penalty on Haley. It was a boneheaded play and Avery should know the league is sensitive about those types of hits and he knows his reputation that he is going to get called on that.
I think the Sean Avery "era" was over, Game 4 against Washington 2 seasons ago when Torts benched him for taking a penalty in the last minute. Since that time it seems as though Avery stopped playing with the right kind of edge for fear of being a scratch and just became a regular grinder.
When he's on his game, look at the Devils series from the 2008 playoffs, or even the Thrashers and Sabres series from the 2007 playoffs. If we can get that Avery back, and the 2009-2010 Gaborik back we could do some damage

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03-16-2011, 11:15 AM
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The good news about Avery's penalties was that was 6 minutes we gained on-sides.

And I don't think Tortorella overreacted at all. There was still a good chunk of time left and the Isles can score goals. I was nervous as hell when he got that last penalty. Haley definitely helped out that boarding call, but Aves should know better especially with recent events and how sensitive a play this is anymore.

I don't know what to think of Aves now. I've always liked the guy. When he's on, he's real effective, but those games seem few and far between these days. He just doesn't seem in it 100%.

What do I know though? I just watch the games.
I can't believe you are serious. Up by 4 goals with less than 5 minutes remaining and you were actually nervous? You honestly thought for a second that the game wasn't over even if the Isles scored a pp goal?

Torts wasn't worried about losing the game, he was worried about stupid play. Had this been any other night (unless we were playing washington) we wouldn't be up by 4 goals and a dumb play like that could mean the difference between a win and a loss. The game at hand was over and done and everyone knew that.

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03-16-2011, 11:22 AM
  #72
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Your post is what annoys me about pro avery spins. They never include how he helps. They are usually saying things likw what he did was not hat bad. Talk about backhanded compliments.
I guess my point was that in the first penalty, it could be argued that Haley took the boarding penalty in response to the one Avery took on him. Haley is not a skilled player, more of a banger that maybe prone to acting on emotion. We scored on the ensuing PP. Avery does things that cause reactions.

The second penalty would help our team by removing a far superior player, in Okposo, from the ice in exchange for Avery. Again, his action caused the opposition action that put us at an advantage.

not to much of a stretch, IMO

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03-16-2011, 11:27 AM
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I guess my point was that in the first penalty, it could be argued that Haley took the boarding penalty in response to the one Avery took on him. Haley is not a skilled player, more of a banger that maybe prone to acting on emotion. We scored on the ensuing PP. Avery does things that cause reactions.

The second penalty would help our team by removing a far superior player, in Okposo, from the ice in exchange for Avery. Again, his action caused the opposition action that put us at an advantage.

not to much of a stretch, IMO
i got run over by a car once

but when i was on the ground i found $20 under a parked car next to me

score...i should thank that dude for running me over...he clearly had my best interest in mind

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03-16-2011, 11:32 AM
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i got run over by a car once

but when i was on the ground i found $20 under a parked car next to me

score...i should thank that dude for running me over...he clearly had my best interest in mind
Fair enough for the first one penalty, although when Haley took the penalty on Dubinsky, i immediately thought it was pay-back.

but you wouldn't welcome an Okposo - Avery trade-off? I would. And that is the fact of what happened. If Okposo didn't take the call, i would feel differently.

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03-16-2011, 11:41 AM
  #75
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A few posters here have very strange defense mechanisms when it comes to Avery. Folks don't like chippy, physical hockey? Here are the recent NYR players I have disliked greatly;

Boogaard
Brashear
Avery
Zherdev
Wolski
Lisin

Here are my favorite players;

Callahan
Prust
Dubinsky
Lundqvist
Anisimov

Notice anything? The players I like are both physical, and can play hockey. Guys I dislike take dumb ass penalties, can't play hockey, or like to dangle around the place and turn the puck over.

It has nothing to do with Surf's agenda against "Video game nerds" rather, it has to do with getting a player 29 other teams in the league wanted nothing to do with, off of the ice in key situations.

How many of "Averys antics" can anyone say legitimately won us a playoff series? 0. We swept Atlanta, steamrolled over them, and Avery only scored one goal. We beat New Jersey in five, so Avery's contributions were hardly a turning point there. He almost lost us a crucial game in the Washington series, if anyone recalls, by pulling similar stunts when we were only up a goal.

He is gone after this year hopefully, and rightfully so. Tortorella loves his physical players. What he doesn't like is a guy who leads the league in minor penalties on a consistent basis.

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