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Tortorella may not like the shootout...

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03-17-2011, 08:51 AM
  #1
aslim240
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Tortorella may not like the shootout...

But with an 8-2 record in the shootout, at this point it is the difference between the Rangers being in the playoffs and out.

I am curious if people think shootout skills are undervalued or overvalued.

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03-17-2011, 08:59 AM
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Rangers are also tied with the Devils for the least "Loser Points" (losing in OT and getting a point for it) in the league...by far. So it kind of evens out.

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03-17-2011, 09:06 AM
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It's what's got us in at this point but it could be what keeps us out at the end of the day.

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03-17-2011, 09:08 AM
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It's what's got us in at this point but it could be what keeps us out at the end of the day.
This.

If we have the same amount of points as the Devils when the season is over, and they keep up with their non-shootout wins, they make it, we don't.

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03-17-2011, 09:08 AM
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It's also the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year

4 on 4 --> 3 on 3 ----> Shootout and change the points system.

Maybe 3 for a win in regulation?? (just a thought)

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03-17-2011, 09:30 AM
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darrenturcotte#8
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Of course it SHOULD be 3 points for a regulation win but that would create more separation between the teams. The NHL wants every team to be "in the race" as long as possible because then fans keep coming through the gates. Between the salary cap and the loser points, there has never been such parity in the NHL. I think the league is worse off for it, but I'm sure its great from a greed factor... which apparently is the only thing that matters these days in sports.

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03-17-2011, 09:53 AM
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I think shootout skills are undervalued. One of the big "nerd-metrics" for evaluting baseball players is wins over replacement players. Christensen and Zuccarello (lately) haven't done much in regulation, but where would the Rangers be if they were average in shootouts??

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03-17-2011, 09:57 AM
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Interesting is that a lot of the NHL's best players are mediocre or worse in the shootout.

Nothing wrong with putting a solid lineup out there, it gets you points. If we had our full lineup in all year we could be 10-0.

Christensen has like 9 points the last 7 games. He has been very good.

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03-17-2011, 10:00 AM
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mullichicken25
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i dont think shootout skills alone is a reason to keep one player in the line up over another

you want the guys who are going to give you the best chance to win the game in the 60 minutes of real hockey

any individual shooter is at best 1/3 of your shootout effort....the goalie is far more important in my opinion

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03-17-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Of course it SHOULD be 3 points for a regulation win but that would create more separation between the teams. The NHL wants every team to be "in the race" as long as possible because then fans keep coming through the gates. Between the salary cap and the loser points, there has never been such parity in the NHL. I think the league is worse off for it, but I'm sure its great from a greed factor... which apparently is the only thing that matters these days in sports.
No doubt. I called in to Bettman's radio show on XM to voice my opinion on that but never got the chance as I had to get to a meeting and had been on hold for like 10 mins.

The result is an artificially manufactured close playoff race and they are not going to let go of that.

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03-17-2011, 11:29 AM
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It's nice, but Shoot Wins get tossed out the window when deciding tie breakers.

Wins and OT wins are the only ones that matter and the Debbies have us beat in that area.

We better hope we do not tie

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03-17-2011, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
any individual shooter is at best 1/3 of your shootout effort....the goalie is far more important in my opinion
I do sorta agree, but has it mattered which goaltenders Christensen has faced?

Henrik, Quick and Hiller the SO standouts in net, yet you've got Kipper in there with 7 wins despite a .714 SV%. Tanguay's (8) SO goals have probably been the difference in some of those wins.

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03-17-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I do sorta agree, but has it mattered which goaltenders Christensen has faced?

Henrik, Quick and Hiller the SO standouts in net, yet you've got Kipper in there with 7 wins despite a .714 SV%. Tanguay's (8) SO goals have probably been the difference in some of those wins.
When you're 6th in the league in SO goals over your career, 7th in game deciding SO goals, and 9th overall in SO% it is highly unlikely that is because you tend to face weak goalies...

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03-17-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Of course it SHOULD be 3 points for a regulation win but that would create more separation between the teams. The NHL wants every team to be "in the race" as long as possible because then fans keep coming through the gates. Between the salary cap and the loser points, there has never been such parity in the NHL. I think the league is worse off for it, but I'm sure its great from a greed factor... which apparently is the only thing that matters these days in sports.
I agree. I hate that 75% of the time if I am watching a game not involving the Rangers, all I am hoping for is the game ends in regulation. So stupid that some games award 2 points and some award 3.

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03-17-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by aslim240 View Post
But with an 8-2 record in the shootout, at this point it is the difference between the Rangers being in the playoffs and out.

I am curious if people think shootout skills are undervalued or overvalued.
If players ever start getting signed to more than they are worth just because of what they do in the shootout, then I would say it is overvalued. Haven't seen it happen yet. A guy like Christensen should never be kept over someone like Prust (just for arguments sake) because of the shootout, but if he gets signed over a similar player and the deciding factor is what he brings in a shootout, I would say that is fine.

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03-17-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i dont think shootout skills alone is a reason to keep one player in the line up over another

you want the guys who are going to give you the best chance to win the game in the 60 minutes of real hockey

any individual shooter is at best 1/3 of your shootout effort....the goalie is far more important in my opinion
I'm sure the debate most teams would have is "OK these guys are just as good in 5-5, and whatnot...Same D same O skills." In that case the SO becomes a decider. Just one of many factors teams consider now I'm sure

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03-17-2011, 11:36 PM
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If it comes down to a repeat of last season, I'd prefer the Rangers being on the winning end of the shootout. But for now, I'd prefer that they win their games in regulation so they don't allow thier opponents any progress, the last thing the Rangers need right now is any more competition for that playoff spot.

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03-17-2011, 11:44 PM
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I hate the shutout, its totally a waste of time and has nothing to do with the game. 3 on 3 for 4 mins than 2 on2 etc would be way more exciting and actual hockey. To answer your question i think the most important part if the goalie, if hes good at this game like Lundy, you will be successfull.

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03-18-2011, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
I hate the shutout, its totally a waste of time and has nothing to do with the game. 3 on 3 for 4 mins than 2 on2 etc would be way more exciting and actual hockey. To answer your question i think the most important part if the goalie, if hes good at this game like Lundy, you will be successfull.
For like the first 60 games of the regular season I don't mind it, after that I can live with it I guess...

But when you see like the avg pretty not so spectacular regularseason game in like early december, against like a West Cost team, I definitely have to admit that a SO ups the excitement level for me, as opposed to walking away with a tie.

In the SEL, I hated it most of the time. Like with only 12 teams there are more rivalty, and it sucked tremendously every time you walked away with a loss against rival -- so I can definitely understand your concern.

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03-18-2011, 04:34 AM
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Its alright. Can be fun to watch at times, but I dont like the idea of an individual being the reason the team wins. The team fighting tooth and nail to keep the game close and then have most of the "glory" go to an individual just does not feel like hockey to me.

I would not mind having ties back in the game to give some space to the teams that deserve to be in the top 8. But if it stays I am not going to lose any sleep over it either.

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03-18-2011, 04:44 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by aslim240 View Post
But with an 8-2 record in the shootout, at this point it is the difference between the Rangers being in the playoffs and out.

I am curious if people think shootout skills are undervalued or overvalued.
Undervalued I think. Many refer to it as a lottery, but still it's quite obvious that some are better than others at it=not lottery.

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03-18-2011, 06:59 AM
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I would not mind having ties back in the game to give some space to the teams that deserve to be in the top 8. But if it stays I am not going to lose any sleep over it either.
While the shootout may not be perfect, games ending in ties is so much worse.
Perfect solution would be wins & losses instead of the point system, but that will never happen.

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03-18-2011, 02:11 PM
  #23
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He may not like it, but clearly he's not stupid and has made it a point to factor who his shooters will be into his gameplan, rather than just pick 3 random guys.

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03-18-2011, 02:12 PM
  #24
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I think they need to extend it to 5 rounds...the 3 round shootout really puts the SUDDEN in sudden death when it only goes 2 and a half rounds.

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03-18-2011, 02:38 PM
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I think they need to extend it to 5 rounds...the 3 round shootout really puts the SUDDEN in sudden death when it only goes 2 and a half rounds.
I'm not sure my portable defibrilator would last five rounds every shootout...it sometimes takes a minute or two recharge

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