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Kings vs. Predators - 03/15/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
03-17-2011, 02:13 AM
  #176
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I dont mean to spam the board with another post.. but this is the funniest smiley Ive ever seen

wtf LOL


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03-17-2011, 09:20 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
IMO, he lost all credibility when DL tooled him out on the POS / Williams trade. His misleading may not be intentional, but it is disturbing.
I don't really understand this type of argument. We all know Hammond is what he is. He actively hates rumors and he reports what information he has. If his primary source is being disingenuous towards him how is that a fault of his?

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03-17-2011, 10:03 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
I don't really understand this type of argument. We all know Hammond is what he is. He actively hates rumors and he reports what information he has. If his primary source is being disingenuous towards him how is that a fault of his?
At the time of the Williams trade, Hammond was not an employee of the Kings so he had some sort of credibility at that point, although it was obvious he was being used as a PR tool for the Kings.

I actually think this "incident" helped move Hammond from an LBPT employee to an employee of the Kings for, if he is going to be the ultimate PR tool for the Kings, might as well just make it official and avoid anymore incidents like the Williams trade "fiasco".

His source is the LA Kings and its management. You read what the LA Kings want you to read. I've said it before but it is worth repeating: the blog has helped shape public opinion on many players. Management knows this and they use it to their advantage.

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03-17-2011, 10:11 AM
  #179
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But the question on Hammond is that is it right to accuse him of being intentionally dishonest and misleading with evidence to support the claim? I think its bush league to throw those sort of accusations around about a member of the Kings org without being able to provide concrete evidence that he is knowingly doing so.

Hammond has been wrong in the past but I don't see him as being intentionally misleading or dishonest.

That said I haven't any use for his reporting with the exception of occasionally using his blog as a secondary source of information after the fact.

That's all I see in it.

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03-17-2011, 10:12 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
At the time of the Williams trade, Hammond was not an employee of the Kings so he had some sort of credibility at that point, although it was obvious he was being used as a PR tool for the Kings.

I actually think this "incident" helped move Hammond from an LBPT employee to an employee of the Kings for, if he is going to be the ultimate PR tool for the Kings, might as well just make it official and avoid anymore incidents like the Williams trade "fiasco".

His source is the LA Kings and its management. You read what the LA Kings want you to read. I've said it before but it is worth repeating: the blog has helped shape public opinion on many players. Management knows this and they use it to their advantage.
What advantage is Kings' management getting by "shaping public opinion on many players"?

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03-17-2011, 10:17 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
At the time of the Williams trade, Hammond was not an employee of the Kings so he had some sort of credibility at that point, although it was obvious he was being used as a PR tool for the Kings.

I actually think this "incident" helped move Hammond from an LBPT employee to an employee of the Kings for, if he is going to be the ultimate PR tool for the Kings, might as well just make it official and avoid anymore incidents like the Williams trade "fiasco".

His source is the LA Kings and its management. You read what the LA Kings want you to read. I've said it before but it is worth repeating: the blog has helped shape public opinion on many players. Management knows this and they use it to their advantage.
I think this is a good post and basically right. I'll just add that it seems to me that credibility has a lot to do with the information that someone is trying to be credible about. Hammond is basically the Kings official mouthpiece. As such, when he posts someone's comments after a game or gives us lineup information, he seems to be extremely credible. He does have consistent access to that information. If he were posting rumors about locker-room arguments or trade rumors, that information would be extremely suspect coming from him--which is why he never posts that kind of thing! So in my view, he's extremely credible, largely because he sticks to the information that he has genuine sources for. He's not really a constantly-evolving op-ed piece on the Kings, as many other bloggers are, and I have no problem with either model. When I want lineup information or a report on who was skating with whom, I'll go to Hammond. When I want op-ed on coaching decisions, I'll go to Zad and JDM's blog or others like it. They all have their roles.

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03-17-2011, 10:31 AM
  #182
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Since I promised I'd go through it all, here it is:

{Sorry for its off topic nature}

Quote:
Originally Posted by s3machine View Post
ok. i'll try this without the name calling..

I dont like the fact that Cammalleri had so many wonderful things to say about the Canadian fanbase after he was traded to Calgary.. Mike said that it was a no brainer that he wanted to play in Canada and was probably going to sign with a Canadian team after his contract was done with the Kings. It wasnt more so that I didnt like the fact that he was saying good things about the Canadian fanbase because we all know that country bleads hockey.. but the way he said it made it seem as if us fans in LA werent passioniate, that we didnt know as much about the game as the fans up north did.. That we didnt deserve the caliber of player that he is...
Nothing Cammy said was in any way negative about the Kings, and even your perceptions admit that. He merely was showing the new fans how excited he was about playing in a new city. He may have implied that he was happy about being on a team where MANAGEMENT wanted him, which it was very clear that in LA managment thought he was unworthy. There can be NO DEBATE about THAT. DL didnt want him, thought he wasnt a team player and denigrated him personally. On this point I do have personal first-hand knowledge.

Next, Mike never said anything about wanting to sign with a Canadian team "after his contract was done with the Kings." MC wanted to stay, liked his teammates, had and still has an amazing house that he had fixed up to his liking, and loves the South Bay area. He spends time here in the summer.

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Originally Posted by s3machine View Post
What about all the times we packed Staples Center to watch a minor league hockey team play?

What about all the times we stood on the edge of our seats chanting GO KINGS GO at the top of our lungs almost ensuring we would have no voice left for the next couple days?

What about the fact that we kept coming back season after season knowing that we did not have the talent to compete with the elite in the NHL?

Thats not passion? Thats not a strong fanbase?
You are equating (mistaking?) your level of passion and commitment as a fan with a decision management made to jettison a player who gave his heart and soul to this team. Before Kopitar, he was the number one offensive threat. After Kopitar he was the number 2 guy, and up until the Penner acquisition, the team lacked what was traded away with MC: a player that had a shot first scorer mentality.

Look, I guarantee you, there are very few on this board , or in the rink, that are louder or more vociferous at games than I am in support of the Kings. But Cammy NEVER SAID A NEGATIVE WORD about fans in LA. I think you may have drank the DL mixed kool-aid that was swirling around at the time to justify DL's decision to jettison him. A position many on this board adopted with a full deep swig of the same kool-aid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s3machine View Post
...and I also dont like the fact that an oft injured one or 2 hit wonder was asking for 6+ mil per year.. and wasnt the rumor that as our NHLPA rep Mike was asking for that kind of money to drive up the average salary for players? Do we really need another lockout when the CBA expires because of salaries? Another lockout will all but ensure our league to be 6 feet under.
Ah, now you are at least getting to something that I can see actual merit in, and hopefully this bit of information will give you more to consider (or reconsider) in your views on MC. The 6MM per figure was based on two things, First and foremost it was a negotiating point set between MC and his agent. Did he expect to get 6MM from the Kings? Unlikely, No agent or busnessman or person with any bit of negotiating savvy opens negotiations at the number they are willing to accept. That number was, at least in part, a repsonse to being absolutely low-balled by a GM who categotically disliked the player AND the person.

Now, it is also NOT a rumor, but actual fact, that as the players rep, MC and his agent tried to use the 6MM figure to help boost the player salaries in the league, and the reasoning and facts were as follows: Vanek, who had scored 40+ goals the prior season was given an offer sheet that was matched by a desperate Buffalo team (that had in the then recent past had lost Drury and Briere) of 7MM a year for 7 years. The reasoning was that if Vanek, a similar player to Cammy, but with greater production was worth 7MM a year then Cammy was worth 6MM. The use of other players production and salaries in negotiating is called comparables, and Cammy saw that as a way to help maximize his salary while doing his job as a league rep also. The fact that his position brought him in conflict with a GM known for taking hard line stances in negotiations, a GM who didnt like him, neither as a player or a person, and a GM who took those points public, and then had to backpedal away from them when later questioned by fans foretold Cammy's demise as a King.

There are many on this board who think he is one dimensional and not worth what he is being paid. They have their opinion. But saying he is not a high claiber sniper is nor a good teammate is simply not true. Do recall that in his last year here Cammy got injured going to aid a teammate in a scrum. He was a leading scorer on the team at that point. His next year in Calgary where he was asked to provide offense he did just that with 39 goals. The next year he had 25 in Montreal, but tied for the league lead in goals (14) during Montreal's surprisiing run in the playoffs although he played six less games than Danny Briere. Sure they rode a hot goalie, but so too did MC score clutch goals that helped them win.

As I said all along, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine, on this subject, is based not only on my perceptions of MC as a player and a person, but on information gleaned from the GM himself, who made it abundantly clear what his opinion of MC was, and favorable or positive are words that in NO WAY could be confused with his opinion regardign MC.

That trade is long since done, the boat has sailed, and it can be said that MC ultimately netted us Dustin Penner, a far better result than the project that may(or may not) someday be known as the NHL player Colton Tuebert.


Quote:
Originally Posted by s3machine View Post
Hope this explains my stance on the Cammy situation.. If I came off as a jerk off myself.. I apolagize.. Theres a reason why I chose to post here and not LGK.. I like this site.. like all the posters here.. and gulp.. I like the mods here too.. theyre firm.. but fair... This is a great community...Im just tryin to be apart of the family.. Sometimes I have strong opinions on some subjects.. I promise I mean no harm.

Thanks for reading.
Hope all the above gives you a different view on the Cammy matter.

And Yes this is a great board, with many very intelligent, expressive and astutue posters from all walks of life, some with a good bit of real life hockey knowledge too. This isnt LGK. Some posters have tiffs with others, but it almost always stays topic related, factually based and somewhat calm, although barbs do fly now and then. You'll find you will be far more well received here with a factually supported argument or just a plain old opinion than one which attacks just for the hell of it. Again, your right to post how you wish.. Thats just my cent and half's worth.

{We now return control of your Channels back to you}

Last edit (for Butch 19) assist TG:

... "in Nashville...."


Last edited by DIEHARD the King fan: 03-17-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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Old
03-17-2011, 10:40 AM
  #183
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wow - this thread is still taking a (big) turn away from the Nashville game.

??

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03-17-2011, 10:46 AM
  #184
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Suddenly, I feel like Neville Chamberlain...
Nah, Neville would have given up the farm and Czechoslovakia too!

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03-17-2011, 10:46 AM
  #185
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Good point.

Add "in Nashville" to the end of my last few posts.


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03-17-2011, 11:18 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
At the time of the Williams trade, Hammond was not an employee of the Kings so he had some sort of credibility at that point, although it was obvious he was being used as a PR tool for the Kings.

I actually think this "incident" helped move Hammond from an LBPT employee to an employee of the Kings for, if he is going to be the ultimate PR tool for the Kings, might as well just make it official and avoid anymore incidents like the Williams trade "fiasco".

His source is the LA Kings and its management. You read what the LA Kings want you to read. I've said it before but it is worth repeating: the blog has helped shape public opinion on many players. Management knows this and they use it to their advantage.
I would like to offer once piece of information as a counterpoint to your argument.

When I had the opportunity to meet Hammond I asked him whose idea it was to hire him and I suggested Lombardi. His response was quite telling. He didn't quite scoff at the notion but he made it quite clear that if Lombardi wasn't outright against his hiring Lombardi was definitely NOT the guy who put the idea in the suggestion box.

This makes me question the whole idea that Hammond is being used as a mouthpiece. How could be if he management didn't want him there in the first place?

... in Nashville ...

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03-17-2011, 11:33 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
I would like to offer once piece of information as a counterpoint to your argument.

When I had the opportunity to meet Hammond I asked him whose idea it was to hire him and I suggested Lombardi. His response was quite telling. He didn't quite scoff at the notion but he made it quite clear that if Lombardi wasn't outright against his hiring Lombardi was definitely NOT the guy who put the idea in the suggestion box.

This makes me question the whole idea that Hammond is being used as a mouthpiece. How could be if he management didn't want him there in the first place?

... in Nashville ...
I think this was a media department decision, but that once in place, DL realized Hammond's potential usefulness.

ooops, I forgot.


"...in Nashville...."

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03-17-2011, 11:39 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I think this was a media department decision, but that once in place, DL realized Hammond's potential usefulness.

ooops, I forgot.


"...in Nashville...."
My counterpoint would be: How does what Lombardi say to Hammond differ, in either volume or message, from what he says in national TV appearances, on KingsVision, in other parts of the media(ie LA Times, espn.com, etc), or and this is the most important the Nashville press?

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03-17-2011, 11:51 AM
  #189
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I dont know that it does, but Hammond is volume, he's every day every minute while DL's voice is sparingly heard. Personally, I dont place much credence in Hammond except for injuries and lineups. He was milktoast before he was an employee, and he's even more bland now.

Whenever I think of him even this much I still remember the "deer in the headlights" look he had the first time he was on one of the TV broadcasts.

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03-17-2011, 12:09 PM
  #190
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once again, another post-win GDT turns into a ****storm - lol

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03-17-2011, 12:27 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
once again, another post-win GDT turns into a ****storm - lol
Of course!!! People only like to post when they're emotionally motivated and most people only get enough emotion to post when they're angry about something.

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03-17-2011, 12:29 PM
  #192
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once again, another post-win GDT turns into a ****storm - lol
you forgot ... in Nashville...."

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03-17-2011, 01:44 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
What advantage is Kings' management getting by "shaping public opinion on many players"?
Praise from the majority of the fanbase for trading away a 30-goal scorer for a pick.

A somewhat tragic indifference from the majority of the fanbase as a long-time King, one with the butt tat that DL loves, was allowed to just walk away.

Management can do whatever it wants with players, regardless of fan sentiment; however, management would prefer that the majority of the fanbase agree with the moves they make. When managment identifies someone who isn't in future plans, that player seems to be systematically marginalized via comments made in the blog.

While I am a banker, I earned my degree in journalism with an emphasis on public relations. I know a little bit about both topics here: journalistic credibility and public relations in general. Hammond lost his credibility as a journalist, as it relates to reporting about the Kings, when he became an employee. Prior to that, he simply reported what he was told by the Kings, same as now, but he was not on the payroll. Now that he is, he is basically management's official mouthpiece and, as such, is a public relations tool.

I don't have a problem with this, except that many buy-in 100% to what is said on the blog and allow this to shape their opinion on every player, the system and the "plan". When you say something to the contrary, many times the argument that comes back is something regurgitated from Hammond's blog.

Anyways, I appreciate the blog because it does have useful information; however, I have a problem with it being qouted as gospel. If at all possible, one must always consider the source of a story.

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03-17-2011, 02:38 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Since I promised I'd go through it all, here it is:

{Sorry for its off topic nature}



Nothing Cammy said was in any way negative about the Kings, and even your perceptions admit that. He merely was showing the new fans how excited he was about playing in a new city. He may have implied that he was happy about being on a team where MANAGEMENT wanted him, which it was very clear that in LA managment thought he was unworthy. There can be NO DEBATE about THAT. DL didnt want him, thought he wasnt a team player and denigrated him personally. On this point I do have personal first-hand knowledge.

Next, Mike never said anything about wanting to sign with a Canadian team "after his contract was done with the Kings." MC wanted to stay, liked his teammates, had and still has an amazing house that he had fixed up to his liking, and loves the South Bay area. He spends time here in the summer.



You are equating (mistaking?) your level of passion and commitment as a fan with a decision management made to jettison a player who gave his heart and soul to this team. Before Kopitar, he was the number one offensive threat. After Kopitar he was the number 2 guy, and up until the Penner acquisition, the team lacked what was traded away with MC: a player that had a shot first scorer mentality.

Look, I guarantee you, there are very few on this board , or in the rink, that are louder or more vociferous at games than I am in support of the Kings. But Cammy NEVER SAID A NEGATIVE WORD about fans in LA. I think you may have drank the DL mixed kool-aid that was swirling around at the time to justify DL's decision to jettison him. A position many on this board adopted with a full deep swig of the same kool-aid.



Ah, now you are at least getting to something that I can see actual merit in, and hopefully this bit of information will give you more to consider (or reconsider) in your views on MC. The 6MM per figure was based on two things, First and foremost it was a negotiating point set between MC and his agent. Did he expect to get 6MM from the Kings? Unlikely, No agent or busnessman or person with any bit of negotiating savvy opens negotiations at the number they are willing to accept. That number was, at least in part, a repsonse to being absolutely low-balled by a GM who categotically disliked the player AND the person.

Now, it is also NOT a rumor, but actual fact, that as the players rep, MC and his agent tried to use the 6MM figure to help boost the player salaries in the league, and the reasoning and facts were as follows: Vanek, who had scored 40+ goals the prior season was given an offer sheet that was matched by a desperate Buffalo team (that had in the then recent past had lost Drury and Briere) of 7MM a year for 7 years. The reasoning was that if Vanek, a similar player to Cammy, but with greater production was worth 7MM a year then Cammy was worth 6MM. The use of other players production and salaries in negotiating is called comparables, and Cammy saw that as a way to help maximize his salary while doing his job as a league rep also. The fact that his position brought him in conflict with a GM known for taking hard line stances in negotiations, a GM who didnt like him, neither as a player or a person, and a GM who took those points public, and then had to backpedal away from them when later questioned by fans foretold Cammy's demise as a King.

There are many on this board who think he is one dimensional and not worth what he is being paid. They have their opinion. But saying he is not a high claiber sniper is nor a good teammate is simply not true. Do recall that in his last year here Cammy got injured going to aid a teammate in a scrum. He was a leading scorer on the team at that point. His next year in Calgary where he was asked to provide offense he did just that with 39 goals. The next year he had 25 in Montreal, but tied for the league lead in goals (14) during Montreal's surprisiing run in the playoffs although he played six less games than Danny Briere. Sure they rode a hot goalie, but so too did MC score clutch goals that helped them win.

As I said all along, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine, on this subject, is based not only on my perceptions of MC as a player and a person, but on information gleaned from the GM himself, who made it abundantly clear what his opinion of MC was, and favorable or positive are words that in NO WAY could be confused with his opinion regardign MC.

That trade is long since done, the boat has sailed, and it can be said that MC ultimately netted us Dustin Penner, a far better result than the project that may(or may not) someday be known as the NHL player Colton Tuebert.




Hope all the above gives you a different view on the Cammy matter.

And Yes this is a great board, with many very intelligent, expressive and astutue posters from all walks of life, some with a good bit of real life hockey knowledge too. This isnt LGK. Some posters have tiffs with others, but it almost always stays topic related, factually based and somewhat calm, although barbs do fly now and then. You'll find you will be far more well received here with a factually supported argument or just a plain old opinion than one which attacks just for the hell of it. Again, your right to post how you wish.. Thats just my cent and half's worth.

{We now return control of your Channels back to you}

Last edit (for Butch 19) assist TG:

... "in Nashville...."


good man. thanks for sharing your side like you said you would.. I look forward to many more debates and celebrations during a good/deep post season run

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03-17-2011, 02:44 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Praise from the majority of the fanbase for trading away a 30-goal scorer for a pick.
DL traded away Cammalleri AND a 1st round pick for Colten Teubert. Horrific asset management.

If DL had actually offered Cammalleri a reasonable contract, and Cammy turned it down, then I wouldn't blame Dean at all here. But Dean never even attempted to lock up Cammalleri, and then traded him away when his value was at a low point.

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03-17-2011, 04:42 PM
  #196
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But Dean never even attempted to lock up Cammalleri.
You know this how?

Regardless, in hindsight (and granted, many fans complained when the move was made), Lombardi might have managed the asset better. Can't win them all, not even in Nashville.

On the whole, Lombardi appears to have done a bang up job.

@BigKing: Can't say I've noticed "systematic marginalization of players" coming from management at Hammond's or elsewhere. As for the balance, yes, one should always consider the source.

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03-17-2011, 04:55 PM
  #197
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I don't have a problem with this, except that many buy-in 100% to what is said on the blog and allow this to shape their opinion on every player, the system and the "plan".
Well that is just stupidity. Getting news from one source whether it be something as frivilous as professionaly hockey or something more serious like current events is just a bad idea. Especially when the source of news is getting paid by the organization he is reporting on. It doesn't seem like it would take a genius to figure that out. But then again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Anyways, I appreciate the blog because it does have useful information; however, I have a problem with it being qouted as gospel. If at all possible, one must always consider the source of a story.
Exactly.. the biggest problem with the blog is that it is the main source of Kings information on the web. I think by virtue of having few options and feeding frenzy for news/info among die hards results in people buying into what is written on there. Even still, people should be smart enough to take things at face value ever since the Williams/O'Sullivan trade and the subsequent hiring of Hammond by the Kings org.

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03-17-2011, 06:39 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
You know this how?
Regardless, in hindsight (and granted, many fans complained when the move was made), Lombardi might have managed the asset better. Can't win them all, not even in Nashville.

On the whole, Lombardi appears to have done a bang up job.

@BigKing: Can't say I've noticed "systematic marginalization of players" coming from management at Hammond's or elsewhere. As for the balance, yes, one should always consider the source.
So as not to risk boring you all with the long-winded version, I KNOW IT FROM THE WORDS SPOKEN BY THE MAN HIMSELF. And you've been around here long enough to have read it before. DL had no intention of keeping MC around.

Dammit, now you just made me do it again!

(I guess this is "soooo, today's thread" as well, Zad)

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