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What could we get for Anisimov+Wolski?

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Old
03-17-2011, 04:06 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
THANK YOU. Sick of everybody thinking "legit first liners" are only 75-80 pts+ and "second liners" 55-65 pts
I think that when people say that, they mean legit as in the level on great teams. At least that's the case when I say it. If the first liner on a cellar dweller is a 65 point player, then is he really a first liner, or is he just on a bad team?

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03-17-2011, 04:10 PM
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My biggest beef with trades involving AA is that, as much as we dont like to think this, the jury is still very much out on Stepan

we have plenty of reason to be optomistic, but lets not kid ourselves, just like all rookies he has things he needs to improve on before he can take his game to the next level

the same can be said about AA, but the point is this, dont trade away assets unless your pretty damn sure about what you have

i dont think we're at that point yet

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03-17-2011, 04:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
My biggest beef with trades involving AA is that, as much as we dont like to think this, the jury is still very much out on Stepan

we have plenty of reason to be optomistic, but lets not kid ourselves, just like all rookies he has things he needs to improve on before he can take his game to the next level

the same can be said about AA, but the point is this, dont trade away assets unless your pretty damn sure about what you have

i dont think we're at that point yet
The Rangers arent in a position to be trading assets, period.

Get a real #1 center like Richards, see how next years team operates, and then make a decision if you want to package prospects for that extra piece of we look like we can contend.

Makes less than zero sense to even entertain trading away the young players anytime in the next year or so.

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03-17-2011, 04:17 PM
  #29
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The Rangers are not trading Anisimov. Richards or no Richards.

Yes, Anisimov's and Stepan's roles would be reduced, and that's part of the point. They'll be able to develop in a more comfortable role.

And with Kreider, Thomas, Grachev, and Hagelin on the way, they're not trading for another winger.

Christensen, Wolski, Prospal, Fedotenko, Avery are after thoughts regarding this team's future. They're not part of it.

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03-17-2011, 04:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I think that when people say that, they mean legit as in the level on great teams. At least that's the case when I say it. If the first liner on a cellar dweller is a 65 point player, then is he really a first liner, or is he just on a bad team?
I wouldn't jump to say everybody thinks through it that much, but very fair point.

I just think people get caught up in what line # players slot into sometimes. I mean Pascaul Dupuis has been a 1st liner for an elite team no? Roles in this league are so varied by team.

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03-17-2011, 04:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The Rangers arent in a position to be trading assets, period.

Get a real #1 center like Richards, see how next years team operates, and then make a decision if you want to package prospects for that extra piece of we look like we can contend.

Makes less than zero sense to even entertain trading away the young players anytime in the next year or so.
yeah thats more or less what im trying to say

i honestly believe that this year from the very begninning was about seeeing what we had in our system and where we really need to improve

i think we learned quite a bit, and are closer to an answer, but we're not there yet....and its still not the time to trade anything away

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03-17-2011, 04:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
I wouldn't jump to say everybody thinks through it that much, but very fair point.

I just think people get caught up in what line # players slot into sometimes. I mean Pascaul Dupuis has been a 1st liner for an elite team no? Roles in this league are so varied by team.
generally, in the context in which its talked about here, you can assume line numbers as class levels

whats generally considered a "first liner" could be described as a 1st class NHLer and so on

when we're talking about birnging in richards or another "1st line center" i generally dont think people give a rats ass what actual line # he plays on, they're talking about a 1st class player who is int he top percentage of the league for his position

Malkin, for example, has played on the 2nd line...but he'd certainlly be classified as a "1st liner" while Dupuis, who happens to play on the 1st line, would not be classified as such

thats my take at least

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03-17-2011, 04:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
generally, in the context in which its talked about here, you can assume line numbers as class levels

whats generally considered a "first liner" could be described as a 1st class NHLer and so on

when we're talking about birnging in richards or another "1st line center" i generally dont think people give a rats ass what actual line # he plays on, they're talking about a 1st class player who is int he top percentage of the league for his position

Malkin, for example, has played on the 2nd line...but he'd certainlly be classified as a "1st liner" while Dupuis, who happens to play on the 1st line, would not be classified as such

thats my take at least
I think i mean moreso when somebody (admittedly probably not int he majority) slots someone like Dubi as a "3rd liner" when he'd be on at least the 2nd line of 27 out of 30 teams.

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03-17-2011, 04:54 PM
  #34
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Even if the Rangers sign Richards, you have to be careful and have depth; he's now prone to concussions. You have to sign him, but have to be careful.

I don't get people's beef with Ansimov at all. It's his SECOND year people and he's progressed in every way, shape, and form. Here's a kid who has done nothing but say and do the right thing since the day he was drafted in 2006 and has been a good sport in any role that he's been given. Plus he's still growing into his body and he's not non physical, his game is very similar to Jagr's where he uses his body and the boards to protect the puck.

Honestly, if your third line is eventually Dubi-Artie-Cally then that is very VERY good news.

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03-17-2011, 05:02 PM
  #35
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I'd try moving Boyle to wing. I think he'd be better there, offensively at least. I'm also very open to trading him while his value is high.

I'm not interested in moving Anisimov. If he's part of a package for a legit top line player, I'd obviously consider it. But who is that player?

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Old
03-17-2011, 05:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'd rather sell high with Boyle than AA, in your scenario. Anisimov would be a perfect 3rd line defensive center on a very good team, and he has more skill then Boyle - so keep that.

You probably could get about the same return back if you offered either of them considering Boyle scored 20 this year. Not sure hell duplicate that again.
Hockeybased
Normally I agree with you on a lot of points but anisimov is extremely overrated defensively. Watch the 2nd islander goal from the last game for a classic example. His backcheck was totally lackluster and he was behind. He easily could have taken a hooking penalty to stop that goal but he didn't as he didn't do anything. Remember that play he went down to block a shot a few games ago and it hit him and it ended up in the net. He was attempting to block that shot because dubinsky does the down low work a center does since AA is not strong enough. AA is not good on face-offs and Boyle is plus Boyle uses his size and plays a physical game this team is built around. Boyle is very very underrated on this board for his defensive play and AA is overrated because dubinsky does half his job for him. If we have to trade one of them i prefer AA as he will be exposed as a 3rd line center without solid defensive wingers like dubi and Callahan doing all the work.

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Old
03-17-2011, 05:23 PM
  #37
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No real reason to trade AA. But if I had to say what I thought we'd get for him and wolski I'd say a guy about the same skill level as AA maybe some1 who has already hit the 60 pt mark. but without the D. I just don't think Wolski has much value in the league tradewise.

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03-17-2011, 06:30 PM
  #38
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I think the first question should be, who's available to get? And then, what would the price be?
Well not anymore, but (as fans know) power play specialist Chris Stewart was. IMO, Sather really should have gone after him (maybe he did) and possibly let aa (or preferably Wolski) go as part of a package deal. The Rangers would have probably had to give up one of DZ, McDonagh, or Staal, but, like they say, you have to give up something too get something.

With that said, I'm not sure what I would do if I'm a Rangers G.M. and that kind of offer is on the table.
But at least you have a legit power forward (right handed shot as well) on a line with Gaborik who would probably score 30 goals or more per year, and, there would be absolutely no need to ever dress Boogaard again.

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03-17-2011, 06:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I think that when people say that, they mean legit as in the level on great teams. At least that's the case when I say it. If the first liner on a cellar dweller is a 65 point player, then is he really a first liner, or is he just on a bad team?
That's how I see it.

If your first line is putting up 80 and your second line is doing 55-60, your offense is contending for the cup.

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03-17-2011, 07:08 PM
  #40
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No, that's not the reason. I wrote a long post on why I think those two are the ones who should be packaged and if you won't read it, then my re-typing it won't help.

Nor did I say that AA+Wolski gets us a first liner. I said that it gets us someone better than either one of them.
I reread your post. It didn't change. Something better than a young, excellent defensive center with second line upside would have to be a first liner or star defenseman. In order to get something better than Anisimov back, we would have to land one or the other. That's not happening and there's no reason to trade a young, skilled center like Anisimov.

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03-17-2011, 07:18 PM
  #41
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The only part of this thread that makes any sense is trading Wolski. He doesent do it for me and i dont see any point of keeping a soft girl like Wolski on the ice. Plus no one will want Wolski, if u want to trade him try a 5th or 6th round pick thats the best wed get for a soft, inconsistent player whos played for 3 teams in 4 years and it always the same story with him. But KEEP ANISIMOV! Hes prob the most natural centerment we have and he plays the position to a tee. If he puts on more strength and size he can be a solid 2-3 line center for years. Ya sure Brad may be a good player in NY and im not saying dont aquire him but im saying enough with the trade Anisimov ****.

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03-17-2011, 07:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
At center, we'll have Brad, Stepan, Boyle and Christ. Unless you want to put AA on the third line and Boyle on the fourth, which would be a waste of both their talents, there really isn't space for him. With Brad, we'll have excellent centers without Anisimov.

Why not have Richards/Stepan/Anisimov/Christensen with Boyle moving to wing. Also Stepan may hit sophomore slump next season so it makes sense to have depth down the middle.

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03-17-2011, 07:25 PM
  #43
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Well not anymore, but (as fans know) power play specialist Chris Stewart was. IMO, Sather really should have gone after him (maybe he did) and possibly let aa (or preferably Wolski) go as part of a package deal. The Rangers would have probably had to give up one of DZ, McDonagh, or Staal, but, like they say, you have to give up something too get something.

With that said, I'm not sure what I would do if I'm a Rangers G.M. and that kind of offer is on the table.
But at least you have a legit power forward (right handed shot as well) on a line with Gaborik who would probably score 30 goals or more per year, and, there would be absolutely no need to ever dress Boogaard again.
Just mentioning Stall and Stewart is absolutely insane. IMO Stall has the same value as Eric in some cases more, anyone in their right mind would not consider him tradeable. Plus Gaborik injured or healthy, we make it sound like theres some guarantee that Stewart and Gaborik will be a 1st line and be successful. I would not trade AA for Stewart either, people can call me crazy but the grass always look grenner on the other side of the fence. There is flaws to everyones game.

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03-17-2011, 07:33 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Hockeybased
Normally I agree with you on a lot of points but anisimov is extremely overrated defensively. Watch the 2nd islander goal from the last game for a classic example. His backcheck was totally lackluster and he was behind. He easily could have taken a hooking penalty to stop that goal but he didn't as he didn't do anything. Remember that play he went down to block a shot a few games ago and it hit him and it ended up in the net. He was attempting to block that shot because dubinsky does the down low work a center does since AA is not strong enough. AA is not good on face-offs and Boyle is plus Boyle uses his size and plays a physical game this team is built around. Boyle is very very underrated on this board for his defensive play and AA is overrated because dubinsky does half his job for him. If we have to trade one of them i prefer AA as he will be exposed as a 3rd line center without solid defensive wingers like dubi and Callahan doing all the work.
WOW trade AA over Boyle. Lets see AA played with Shelly and Prust at the end of last year and that line was the most successful line down the stretch. People really have to take a better look at the game. Sure Dubi does a lot out there as does Cally, but AA creates space for them, hes consistent in his movement, always in position and allows both his wingers more freedom. Hes always hanging high, raraly get caught. Trust me Dubi and Cally arent perfect and both have moments esp Dubi at times, i still think hes a great player but he makes a fair share of mistakes. All i kno is AA has potential to be even better with added strength. Sure Boyle played well but cmon. What happens next year when Boyle struggles and AA picks up 60 points on another team. What then?

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03-17-2011, 07:36 PM
  #45
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Just mentioning Stall and Stewart is absolutely insane. IMO Stall has the same value as Eric in some cases more, anyone in their right mind would not consider him tradeable. Plus Gaborik injured or healthy, we make it sound like theres some guarantee that Stewart and Gaborik will be a 1st line and be successful. I would not trade AA for Stewart either, people can call me crazy but the grass always look grenner on the other side of the fence. There is flaws to everyones game.
MDZ then? yes or no?

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03-17-2011, 07:53 PM
  #46
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WOW trade AA over Boyle. Lets see AA played with Shelly and Prust at the end of last year and that line was the most successful line down the stretch. People really have to take a better look at the game. Sure Dubi does a lot out there as does Cally, but AA creates space for them, hes consistent in his movement, always in position and allows both his wingers more freedom. Hes always hanging high, raraly get caught. Trust me Dubi and Cally arent perfect and both have moments esp Dubi at times, i still think hes a great player but he makes a fair share of mistakes. All i kno is AA has potential to be even better with added strength. Sure Boyle played well but cmon. What happens next year when Boyle struggles and AA picks up 60 points on another team. What then?
Did you read the original post in the thread. It suggests that we sign Richards and need to move one of our centers. If i had to choose between Boyle or Anisimov for my 3rd line center its a NO BRAINER, Boyle. He is better defensively, better on faceoffs, a better PKER, and he is far more physical, something you want from a 3rd liner.

I don't want to trade either Artie or Boyle, I believe if Drury is bought out or retires Richards can be signed for a 5 year 6.5 million dollar cap deal and we go with Richards, Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle down the middle, essentially having 3 scoring lines and a 4th line checking line with Boyle as the center.

If we don't sign Richards then Anisimov should be the 1st or 2nd line center and Boyle as the 3rd line center. But as my post pointed out Anisimov is Not suited to be a 3rd line center, he is extremely overrated defensively as he barely is doing the down low work, he is not good on faceoffs, and he isn't physical.

When he played with Shelley and Prust, were they used as a checking line? Nope they were scoring goals and in a grind and cycle role, not a shut down defensive line as that is not Artie's game and you are kidding yourself if you think that.

If Artie gets 60 points next year I would be thrilled, I don't see him as anything more than a 45-50 point guy Tops, just my opinion.

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03-17-2011, 08:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'd rather sell high with Boyle than AA, in your scenario. Anisimov would be a perfect 3rd line defensive center on a very good team, and he has more skill then Boyle - so keep that.

You probably could get about the same return back if you offered either of them considering Boyle scored 20 this year. Not sure hell duplicate that again.

If you're choosing a 3rd line center I don't think it's close. If Boyle plays the way he has this year he's one of the better third line centers in the NHL. Anisimov is the best at nothing and it's debatable if he ever will be. He's a less talented enigma than Zherdev or Kovalev in the sense that he doesn't seem to fit into anyone else's style of play.

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03-17-2011, 08:37 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Just mentioning Stall and Stewart is absolutely insane. IMO Stall has the same value as Eric in some cases more, anyone in their right mind would not consider him tradeable. Plus Gaborik injured or healthy, we make it sound like theres some guarantee that Stewart and Gaborik will be a 1st line and be successful. I would not trade AA for Stewart either, people can call me crazy but the grass always look grenner on the other side of the fence. There is flaws to everyones game.
Quote:
anyone in their right mind would not consider him tradeable.
You wouldn't even consider Sidney Crosby? I'd throw in aa and not care if people think I'm insane! There's many players out there... Lets not over exaggerate. Especially for AA or Wolski.

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There is flaws to everyones game.
So I can make the same argument for Colorado. I'm sure there are holes in Johnson's game somewhere. The other team is looking too get better as well. They're probably not looking at Eminger or Gilroy.

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03-17-2011, 08:51 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'd rather sell high with Boyle than AA, in your scenario. Anisimov would be a perfect 3rd line defensive center on a very good team, and he has more skill then Boyle - so keep that.

You probably could get about the same return back if you offered either of them considering Boyle scored 20 this year. Not sure hell duplicate that again.
Boyle not only fits, but EMBODIES and EPITOMIZES the identity of this team a lottttt more than Anisimov does, in my opinion. I have more doubts about Anisimov becoming the player we all hope he will become than I do about Boyle scoring 20 again. Boyle has scored goals in so many different ways this year, that I don't think it's a fluke. He's a typical late bloomer. He's finally putting it all together, and he fits in perfectly here. He can play center or wing. He's got great chemistry with Prust and does a lot more than score goals. I think he's more valuable to this team's future than Anisimov is.

Anisimov just doesn't have the snarl / edge / go-all-out mentality that the leaders of this team do (Boyle fits in with Dubinsky, Callahan, Prust, Girardi, Staal moreso than Anisimov and I think that's an overlooked aspect of team identity / chemistry). I'm not saying Anisimov won't be successful here. I just think Boyle fits the type of gameplan and style we want to keep in the future, whereas Anisimov is a mostly non-physical, "safe" player who while smart and responsible defensively, often floats in all three zones. Boyle is more pro-active and initiates. He forces the issue. He's exactly the type of player Tortorella wants.

Ideally, I'd like to keep both of them, but if I had to choose between them, I'd choose Boyle (assuming he doesn't command a much larger cap-hit than Anisimov, of course. If that becomes the issue, then it makes too much sense to move Boyle while his value his high, but I doubt this happens. He'll be a Ranger for many years.)

I also don't see why getting Richards necessarily means that Boyle and Anisimov are forced to the third and fourth lines respectively. Anisimov can play third line center. Boyle can be moved to the wing and a guy like Werek can play 4th line C.

Wolski Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Stepan Callahan
Boyle Anisimov Zucccarello
Fedotenko Werek Prust
Avery
Christensen

However, if Kreider, Hagelin, or Thomas force their way onto this team, then there's a logjam in the top-9.

Wolski Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Stepan Callahan
Kreider Boyle Zuccarello
Fedotenko Anisimov Prust

The way Tortorella has rolled four lines this year, and given ice-time to Feds and Prust, I don't think Anisimov would be in danger of not getting enough ice-time, so I'd actually be fine with him playing on the "fourth" line if that becomes the reality of the situation. Boyle's done more than Anisimov this year. And for the vast majority, he's had less-skilled linemates.

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03-17-2011, 09:04 PM
  #50
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I'm not interested in moving Anisimov. If he's part of a package for a legit top line player, I'd obviously consider it. But who is that player?

We were once offered Heatley for Dubinsky and Zherdev (or at least that's my recollection).

Maybe we won't get a superstar for AA+WW, but it's not impossible that we'd get someone like Lucic (not necessarily him, just that caliber) for AA+WW, plus a prospect like Valentenko.

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