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What could we get for Anisimov+Wolski?

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Old
03-18-2011, 10:32 AM
  #76
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Huh? I don't see anyone in this thread claiming that Anisimov is done developing. Quite the contrary. I was arguing that Boyle isn't done developing just like Anisimov isn't, and that even though Boyle's 4 years older, this is both of their second NHL seasons, and 4th full pro seasons. They're both going to continue to develop. I just happen to think Boyle fits and will fit more naturally for the identity and direction this team is heading in.
Why, because he's more physical? One of the chief complaints about Boyle last year was that he didn't use his body enough. Artie has been more physical this year than he was last year. He'll probably never be a big banger, but he will get stronger, which will help him when fighting along the boards. He doesn't shy away from contact. He isn't a perimeter player.

Boyle is a lot closer to a finished product than AA is. Boyle's numbers this year are 5 times his previous career high, yet Artie is still outproducing him. He will continue to outproduce him in the years to come. Boyle in no way makes Artie expendable, because Boyle will never be more than a 3rd liner. Artie is already a borderline 2nd liner and still has a lot of room to grow.

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Old
03-18-2011, 10:50 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Why, because he's more physical? One of the chief complaints about Boyle last year was that he didn't use his body enough. Artie has been more physical this year than he was last year. He'll probably never be a big banger, but he will get stronger, which will help him when fighting along the boards. He doesn't shy away from contact. He isn't a perimeter player.

Boyle is a lot closer to a finished product than AA is. Boyle's numbers this year are 5 times his previous career high, yet Artie is still outproducing him. He will continue to outproduce him in the years to come. Boyle in no way makes Artie expendable, because Boyle will never be more than a 3rd liner. Artie is already a borderline 2nd liner and still has a lot of room to grow.
Sorry Gag
I have to disagree on both points. It is Boyle's second full season, to say he is closer to being a finished product makes no sense. What because he is a few years older? That is nonsense, he will continue to grow, players never stop developing. Lets look at Drury last season, the guy used to be captain clutch, someone you could rely on for clutch goals. Well his goal scoring declined and he became basically a defensive center assigned a defensive role and he was great in it, especially in the Olympics. This year was something different, but players never stop developing until it's time to hang them up. I personally like Boyle as a shutdown center, but he could clearly benefit if we did what we did with Dubinsky for him, Dubinsky is a completely different player as a winger and it shows. If we moved Boyle to wing his goals may only increase and he would have less defensive responsibility, so who knows what would happen to his numbers.

Also as for Anisimov being more physical... come on! The guy isn't hitting much of anyone or using his frame to his advantage, the only time I see him being remotely physical is on the cycle when he has the puck. I am not going to describe him as being more physical, not when we have guys like Fedotenko, Boyle, and Dubinsky who get little credit for their physical play. Seems the only forwards who get credit for physical play would be Prust and Callahan, Anisimov is about as physical as Christensen or Gaborik, and thats not saying much at all.

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Old
03-18-2011, 10:59 AM
  #78
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I just dont see us trading AA.

1) To much money/time invested in his development
2) Torts loves that he is so coachable and learns quick + quick turn around on mistakes.
3) 40pt center in his second full season without the soph. slump
4) If he can develop his offensive consistency over the next year like Cally/Dubi have in their 3rd/4th years we could have a minimum 180pt line for years to come.

I just dont think we get the value in return that we will receive if keeping that line & its chemistry together in a few years. Lest we forget we had a team of all stars from 1999-2002'ish and chemistry seems to out perform talent when wearing a blueshirt.

Also food for thought. How many guys are out there that are worth tdaing a big chunk of our future for, that may bail on their current teams? Weber? B.Ryan? Parise?

If our team is young enough, and talented enough, and given our locality, those playes will want to come to us like those types of players flocked to Detroit, Colorado, & Dallas in the late 90's-mid 2000's, without giving up anything but money.

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Old
03-18-2011, 11:40 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Except we can't afford to make deals like that. If we sign Richards, we aren't going to have the money to swap 3+ cheaper players for 1 expensive player. And truth be told, we really don't have the depth to do that either. We are a pretty deep team, but we are also very young. If we start trading players 3 for 1, that depth will disappear quickly.
Fair enough --- but only if that's too many times a repeating pattern!

If we dump guys like Avery, replacing them with, like Werek,
move guys like Gilroy (in the right deal of course, not a give away for nothing) for cheaper home growns,
and tweak some cap by moving our reasonably priced D Girardi for an even better trade up
we can retain enough player assets to maintain adequate depth

then you may have enough room to do this once or twice.
We should sign Richards, but but with aim to contract which safeguards us if he doesn't produce.

We still can look at something for Hedman, not that TB is looking to give him away, but they may be open to a good offer;

and possibly one more big deal.
Depending upon what is involved and how much cap is in the picture, a discounted Malkin might be worth the gamble.

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03-18-2011, 11:51 AM
  #80
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I don't know what we could get for AA and WW, but I do know that this thread and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee in some places...

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:04 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
I don't know what we could get for AA and WW, but I do know that this thread and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee in some places...
Is that you Mr. Pieterzak?

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:06 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Why, because he's more physical? One of the chief complaints about Boyle last year was that he didn't use his body enough. Artie has been more physical this year than he was last year. He'll probably never be a big banger, but he will get stronger, which will help him when fighting along the boards. He doesn't shy away from contact. He isn't a perimeter player.

Boyle is a lot closer to a finished product than AA is. Boyle's numbers this year are 5 times his previous career high, yet Artie is still outproducing him. He will continue to outproduce him in the years to come. Boyle in no way makes Artie expendable, because Boyle will never be more than a 3rd liner. Artie is already a borderline 2nd liner and still has a lot of room to grow.
In Artie's defense, you're right, he doesn't shy away from contact. He handles the beatings he gets along the boards and in front of the net like a professional, as he should. No complaints there. But Anisimov's forecheck is nothing like Boyles. He's constantly letting people off the hook. The ONLY time Anisimov ever finishes his check is if he thinks he can actually steal the puck directly. Boyle goes through people just to hurt them, just to finish his check, just to continue to apply pressure like the rest of his linemates do and hopefully cause a turnover for a teammate. I see Boyle as fitting in with our identity because like Cally and Dubi, he'll go through the wall for his teammates. In close games, Boyle has stepped up and tried to be a difference maker. Anisimov is usually invisible in these types of games. In fact, he's been invisible for much of the season. Then he'll score a goal on a really nice wrist shot and his fanboys will make a post about how he's developing into a Selke winner and is the next Datsyuk. I just don't see Anisimov having that edge / snarl / extra "it" that Dubi, Cally, even Stepan has shown on a more consistent basis. Boyle has this. Prust certainly has "it." Staal and Girardi have it. Sauer seems to have it. You know who else didn't hit, but also "didn't SHY away from contact?" Zherdev. He's certainly a better player than Boyle. He can try 50% of the time and outscore Boyle in points. Does that mean we should keep Zherdev over Boyle? Anisimov just doesn't do enough on a consistent enough basis for me to value him more than Boyle, right now. Anisimov will likely produce more points per season than Boyle. That doesn't mean he's a better fit for this team. And honestly, he simply hasn't done enough to separate himself from Boyle to the extent that some of you are reaching.

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Old
03-18-2011, 02:18 PM
  #83
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I'm completely on board with trading one of Brian Boyle/Artem Anisimov. They're both the same kind of mold. They're both not done developing...but at the end of the day, you think we can re-sign EVERYONE? We've got two more kids on the way that I think are solid bets to make the NHL in Kreider and Werek. Then we've got: Stepan, Dubinsky, Callahan, Zucarrello at forward out of the system, and guys that should probably stay in Prust, Gaborik, and Wolski.

Does it really pay to give Anisimov and/or Boyle their next contracts and keep both? I don't see either player becoming more than well-rounded forwards that peak around 50 points in a season, and maybe hit 60-65 if they get top line minutes with good linemates.

I like both, but sometimes you have to detach yourself and look at things with perspective. If any two players are expandable of all our young forwards, those two are it. Especially Anisimov, since he's younger.

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Old
03-18-2011, 02:29 PM
  #84
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What's with the obsession with trades on this board? We don't even know who this mystical player that we're trading for is. Trading two guaranteed 40 point guys who are 22 and 24, and both have high talent level, is not a good idea, unless you're getting back a young player who is a clear cut upgrade over either/or, and those trades RARELY happen in today's NHL. You develop your own 1st line talent. It's rarely available in outside sources.

And I do not want to trade either of these players period. What's wrong with having good center depth? If we Do sign Richards, that'd leave us with Richards, Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle down the middle, a foursome that could be top tier in a few years. Hell, it'd already be above average next year, with our 2nd and 3rd line centers being 21 and 23. Anisimov is not the type of player you move this early in his career, mostly due to his unclear upside. He obviously has bucket loads of talent and physical gifts, so he could break out at any time. Now do I expect him to turn into a PPG center? No, but with a player of his skill level, size, and intelligence, the sky is the limit for him.

As for Wolski, I don't get why people are so quick to trade this guy. He's a nice complimentary piece to the offense. Does he leave a lot to be desired? Yes, but not every player with talent is going to figure out. He's lacking a bit upstairs, but he can still be a solid 50-60 point 2nd line winger, who could turn into more if we're lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
They're not trading Anisimov.

They wouldn't trade him for Brad Richards.

They're not trading him for "a nice winger" that would be a lateral move at best.

Especially not with Kreider, Thomas, Hagelin, and Grachev in the system.

Anisimov is 22 and has more career points then 25 year old Boyle.

Not happening.
Completely and 100% correct.

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Old
03-18-2011, 02:42 PM
  #85
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It's not the time to trade either player. Might even be the worst time to move either.


Last edited by t3hg00se: 03-18-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old
03-18-2011, 05:27 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Why are you initially putting EC before AA? EC is just a stop gap until someone better comes along... in this case that someone would be Richards. AA on the third line won't kill him and it's not like he'd be stuck there. AA and Stepan are interchangable.
a 2yr going on 3 stop gap. smh

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Old
03-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #87
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In the 8 games since the trade deadline, Artie has 8 points.

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Old
03-19-2011, 12:35 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
At center, we'll have Brad, Stepan, Boyle and Christ
Any team that puts the allmighty to center the 4th line needs to.... erm... (sorry, i couldnt resist)

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Old
03-19-2011, 07:56 AM
  #89
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Nothing I want to keep them, and Sather would never move them.

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Old
03-19-2011, 08:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
No, that's not the reason. I wrote a long post on why I think those two are the ones who should be packaged and if you won't read it, then my re-typing it won't help.

Nor did I say that AA+Wolski gets us a first liner. I said that it gets us someone better than either one of them.
if someone better than them isnt a first liner then its not worth trading either one of them. WW has 2nd line wing upside. He even has the hands to be a 1st liner but hasnt put it all together. He might still be able to.

Same scenario for AA.

So its dumb to trade both if you're not getting a top notch player. And I dont think you're going to.

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Old
03-19-2011, 09:23 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
if someone better than them isnt a first liner then its not worth trading either one of them. WW has 2nd line wing upside. He even has the hands to be a 1st liner but hasnt put it all together. He might still be able to.

Same scenario for AA.

So its dumb to trade both if you're not getting a top notch player. And I dont think you're going to.
I agree there is no reason to trade both of them unless we are getting top line talent and the whole point of the thread was if we signed Richards and wanted to add a top line LW. But what top line LW would be available and cheaper than W2/AA combined? Guess it really depends on what Anisimov gets but at this point looking close to 2 million dollars a season and W2's cap hit is 3.8 so a top line LW that is available and makes less than 5.8 million...

Someone could always fall out of favor, demand a trade, or a team is looking to get younger, but overall unless we really have to I would prefer not to trade Anisimov. I love the thought of us signing Richards and having Richards, Anisimov, Stepan, Boyle down the middle. Wolski is a player I would like to retain as well as he has talent and if we get into the playoffs I would love to see what he brings. Time will tell if he makes it to next season, but his value is not all that high right now, think it would be odd to deal him before the season unless it is in a package.

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Old
03-20-2011, 02:30 AM
  #92
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To point out something else about Anisimov. Last year he was far and away our best player down the stretch in the push for the playoffs. Once again, down the stretch, he has been brilliant and has ten more games to prove it even moreso. Anisimov is a good player with the potential to be a special ranger for years to come.

He has proven to be reliable in pressure situations and is extremely responsible defensively. In a couple years he will likely be an ideal second line center. You don't trade that away unless its for an offer you can't refuse.

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