HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Flyers have worst farm system in NHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-18-2011, 12:19 PM
  #26
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sort of sounds like it... but wouldn't be shocked if he does a year-to-year thing.
I think I remember him saying that after his current contract, he will retire a Flyer. Only problem is, who replaces him after that. Only guy farm wise will prob be Gustafsson. I guess Homer will have to overpay a free agent of some sort.

Phantoms have a couple role players. Thats about it. Only one I seeing having a chance to be more then that is Gus. Ranford and Eriksson are outside chances at the current moment.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 12:22 PM
  #27
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I highly doubt it. And if so, it won't be nearly to the same extent or for the same reasons.

Chicago did what it did because they had no other choice merely to be cap complient. If we do anything, it would be entirely by choice. The only real issue heading into next season is Leino.
I wouldn't push it past them, especially if management feels that they can get better players through free agency. I can see them moving both Carle and Coburn if they can get a better defenseman or two. And right now, with James Wisnewski and Christian Ehrhoff set to become UFAs, I'd say that could certainly factor in Carle and Coburn being moved.

As for the forwards, I think it's very possible that someone like Hartnell gets asked to waive his NTC if they can move him elsewhere. A guy like Brooks Laich, who is also set to become a UFA would fill Hartnell's role very nicely. As well, next season is a pivotal year for JVR and moving Hartnell should mean a huge increase in ice time for the coveted former 2nd overall choice, especially when you consider he's going to count significantly against the cap. It's put up or shut up time for JVR.

So, if Coburn, Carle and Hartnell all get moved, there's no reason to believe that the Flyers can't get decent to excellent packages back for them. I mean, if Cam Barker can land Nick Leddy, there's no reason to believe that a player like Carle can't land someone like John Moore from Columbus or Hartnell couldn't land someone like Scott Glennie. I know that it's all hypothetical, but if the Flyers could make moves like that and still be active in free agency while young prospects bide their time until they're ready, then yeah, I can absolutely see them going in that direction.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 12:57 PM
  #28
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
I highly doubt we'll see any of Wisniewski, Ehrhoff or Laich on our roster next year. I like Laich (heh), the other two not so much (at least not for what I think Ehrhoff will command as a UFA).

As for our poor farm system, that's not really news, is it? We all know we have a few long shots and they are most likely role players at best down with the Phantoms. Ranford is intriguing, but still quite a few years away. That's what you get when trading 1st and 2nd rounders away for multiple seasons.

Wellwood and Holmstrom has had some decent showings this year however, maybe they can push for a spot next year.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:02 PM
  #29
infidelappel*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think I remember him saying that after his current contract, he will retire a Flyer. Only problem is, who replaces him after that. Only guy farm wise will prob be Gustafsson. I guess Homer will have to overpay a free agent of some sort.

Phantoms have a couple role players. Thats about it. Only one I seeing having a chance to be more then that is Gus. Ranford and Eriksson are outside chances at the current moment.
I don't recall him ever saying he's done after his current contract.

What was said, though, is that he wants to hit a few more personal goals before he hangs em up that would require him playing out his current contract.

So he never (to my knowledge) outright said he's gonna retire after his current deal...but reading between the lines certainly sounds like it.

However, as others have said it wouldn't be surprising in the least if he decided to take it year by year after this one, even if it doesn't seem likely right now.

infidelappel* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:04 PM
  #30
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 33,940
vCash: 50
just because we are winning doesnt make it acceptable to have a bunch of crap, question marks and maybe's from the Phantoms on down. At what point do you start being concerned about it? Why cant we have both? take a look at Pittsburgh, the Rangers, the Kings, Buffalo. ect ect ect. all these teams are playoff teams and have good groups of prospects. Yet all we have had for years is a pile of crap outside of the big club.
I dont care what anyone says. I am not ok with it. We need to start building our farm system up with bluechip prospects. this means drafting better, and God forbid keeping our draft picks.
Remember when some thought the Phantoms were going to be "stacked" this season
HA! what a freakin joke that turned out to be. we are the laughing stock of the league when it comes to the farm system.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:14 PM
  #31
infidelappel*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
just because we are winning doesnt make it acceptable to have a bunch of crap, question marks and maybe's from the Phantoms on down. At what point do you start being concerned about it? Why cant we have both? take a look at Pittsburgh, the Rangers, the Kings, Buffalo. ect ect ect. all these teams are playoff teams and have good groups of prospects. Yet all we have had for years is a pile of crap outside of the big club.
I dont care what anyone says. I am not ok with it. We need to start building our farm system up with bluechip prospects. this means drafting better, and God forbid keeping our draft picks.
Remember when some thought the Phantoms were going to be "stacked" this season
HA! what a freakin joke that turned out to be. we are the laughing stock of the league when it comes to the farm system.
Firstly, the cupboard hasn't been bare for years. It's only really been since JVR/Giroux and all came up.

Secondly, we draft well. Very well.

The problem is that we have no draft picks.


I agree with the general consensus, though....if we don't have some good prospects ready to go in the next few years we're in some trouble. We won't stop being a playoff team, but we'll stop being a legit contender if we don't get some cheap young talent.

infidelappel* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:17 PM
  #32
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I don't recall him ever saying he's done after his current contract.

What was said, though, is that he wants to hit a few more personal goals before he hangs em up that would require him playing out his current contract.

So he never (to my knowledge) outright said he's gonna retire after his current deal...but reading between the lines certainly sounds like it.

However, as others have said it wouldn't be surprising in the least if he decided to take it year by year after this one, even if it doesn't seem likely right now.
EuroFlyer posted an article around a year or alittle less ago. You can ask him, but I remember clearly Timonen stating it. Been one of my big defenses against the 1 or 2 people who wanna trade him now.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:17 PM
  #33
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
just because we are winning doesnt make it acceptable to have a bunch of crap, question marks and maybe's from the Phantoms on down. At what point do you start being concerned about it? Why cant we have both? take a look at Pittsburgh, the Rangers, the Kings, Buffalo. ect ect ect. all these teams are playoff teams and have good groups of prospects. Yet all we have had for years is a pile of crap outside of the big club.
I dont care what anyone says. I am not ok with it. We need to start building our farm system up with bluechip prospects. this means drafting better, and God forbid keeping our draft picks.
Remember when some thought the Phantoms were going to be "stacked" this season
HA! what a freakin joke that turned out to be. we are the laughing stock of the league when it comes to the farm system.
You're 100% correct on this one. What makes the Flyers farm system even more baffling is that Don Luce, who was at one time the Buffalo Sabres head of player development is also head of the Flyers player development and when he was in Buffalo, they always had a pipeline of players ready to go.

That's why I think if they win it all this year, Holmgren and company will look at retooling and rebuilding the farm system as well....

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:23 PM
  #34
infidelappel*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
EuroFlyer posted an article around a year or alittle less ago. You can ask him, but I remember clearly Timonen stating it. Been one of my big defenses against the 1 or 2 people who wanna trade him now.
Ah, okay, must have missed that one.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind later, but I don't see it. The whole thing at the beginning of this year about being tired and drained by the long run won't be any easier two years from now, so signing a new deal would be rough.

infidelappel* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:25 PM
  #35
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 33,940
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Firstly, the cupboard hasn't been bare for years. It's only really been since JVR/Giroux and all came up.

Secondly, we draft well. Very well.

The problem is that we have no draft picks.


I agree with the general consensus, though....if we don't have some good prospects ready to go in the next few years we're in some trouble. We won't stop being a playoff team, but we'll stop being a legit contender if we don't get some cheap young talent.
well I meant a few years by my comment. I wouldnt say we draft very well, we have drafted pretty good.
this is the same organization that took Klotz in round 3. that scout should of been fired btw.
Its something that many dont seem to grasp, the we are winning and our core is young so its ok thought does not fly with me at all. What happens if Richards and Carter go down for a season like Crosby and Malkin did. or we have injuries like the Rangers have had. We have NOTHING in the AHL to replace them long term.
Rinaldo or Holmstrom in the top 9 long term?
Wellwood could probably fill the void if needed, but I am not convinced he can step in and play well for a long stretch in the top 9.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 01:54 PM
  #36
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
EuroFlyer posted an article around a year or alittle less ago. You can ask him, but I remember clearly Timonen stating it. Been one of my big defenses against the 1 or 2 people who wanna trade him now.
Recently he had a 2-3 years comment about retiring... which gives it a bit of wiggle room. I think it's "easy" to talk about that hypothetically, but when faced with the actual prospect of giving up the game (though, wouldn't be shocked if he "retired" to go play in Finland) it's another story.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 02:05 PM
  #37
ShotScore*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Philadelphia,Pa.
Country: Italy
Posts: 926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Just a theory..but does anybody think this has anything to do with gifting draft picks like tic tacs over the years
Paul Holmgren strikes again.

ShotScore* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 02:09 PM
  #38
infidelappel*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well I meant a few years by my comment. I wouldnt say we draft very well, we have drafted pretty good.
this is the same organization that took Klotz in round 3. that scout should of been fired btw.
Its something that many dont seem to grasp, the we are winning and our core is young so its ok thought does not fly with me at all. What happens if Richards and Carter go down for a season like Crosby and Malkin did. or we have injuries like the Rangers have had. We have NOTHING in the AHL to replace them long term.
Rinaldo or Holmstrom in the top 9 long term?
Wellwood could probably fill the void if needed, but I am not convinced he can step in and play well for a long stretch in the top 9.
Firstly, you don't build your farm system around the thought that two of your core players might go out for a whole year on a freak injury. That said, even if we had great blue chip prospects there's nobody really that could replace them from any farm system in the league.

Let's say Richards/Carter go down with an injury...you're going to depend on Giroux, Briere, Hartnell, leino, JvR et all to step up. Then you plug glue guys in on the lower lines - Wellwood, Holmstrom, etc.

And yes, we draft very well even though this club has a commitment to goons for some reason. Look at the players we've gotten with our picks despite not usually picking very high. Holmgren drafts very well; he's just not drafting.

Note that I didn't say it's okay for our cupboard to be bare. In the immediate future we'll be fine, but if we don't start drafting well again this year and next, we'll start seeing issues.

infidelappel* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 02:29 PM
  #39
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Recently he had a 2-3 years comment about retiring... which gives it a bit of wiggle room. I think it's "easy" to talk about that hypothetically, but when faced with the actual prospect of giving up the game (though, wouldn't be shocked if he "retired" to go play in Finland) it's another story.
Yeah I posted a thread about it

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=886661


Quote:
“It would have been nice if we won the game. I’m not a big stat guy,” Timonen said. “But I’m sure in a couple years two or three years when I retire, it’ll be a nice memory.”

http://www.csnphilly.com/03/05/11/Fl...860&feedID=704

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 02:53 PM
  #40
EasyMac
Registered User
 
EasyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 836
vCash: 500
The Flyers definitely have to hope a couple of their current farmhands pan out into a legitimate NHL players.

In three seasons (2013-14), we will have:

Players signed:
Richards/Carter/Briere/Giroux
Pronger/Mez

Players needing to be signed likely to get raises:
Leino - UFA this year.
JVR - RFA after next season.
Bob - RFA after 2012-13.
Bartulis - RFA after 2012-13.

Players needing to be signed that likely won't get raises:
Hartnell - UFA after 2012-13, can't see him ever making more then he makes now.
Versteeg - RFA after next season, can't see him getting a raise.
Carcillo - RFA this year, shouldn't make more then he makes now.
Nodl - RFA this year, shouldn't make more on next contract although may get a raise in a couple years if his play improves.
Powe - RFA this year, should make about the same as he does now.
Betts - UFA after 2012-13, not likely to get much of a raise if re-signed.
Coburn - UFA after next season, based on his play shouldn't get a raise.
Carle - UFA after next season, shouldn't get much of a raise but offensive dman tend to be overpaid.

Players that likely will be leaving:
Shelley - UFA after 2012-13 (shudder).
Lappy - UFA after next season, who knows if he will even play next season.
Timonen - UFA after 2012-13, imagine he will retire. If not I can see him coming back for a year or two at a lesser salary.

So the only players I see getting a big raise over the next couple of seasons are JVR/Leino/Bob and perhaps Bartulis if he can step it up. Who knows what will happen with Carle and Coburn being UFA's though. Both shouldn't really make much more then they are now but GM's love to overpay for offensive dman and big dman.

Basically I think the team is in decent shape for the forseeable future, but would be in a lot better shape if at least one phantom/junior forward can step up into the top 9 (I am sure there will be several that can be put on the 4th line as well) and one defender to step up.

However in the end, there is usually so much unforeseen roster turnover that any roster we predict a couple years from now will look nothing like it actually will look like in a couple years.

EasyMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 03:00 PM
  #41
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Versteeg is 24 and about to polish off his third consecutive 20+ goal season. In another year he could be 25 with 4 consecutive 20 goal seasons.

Could easily see him making a bit more on his next contract.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 03:19 PM
  #42
flyersfan018
Registered User
 
flyersfan018's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,526
vCash: 50
We definitely aren't last in the league but our farm team certainly isn't something to brag about.

I like to look on the bright side:
Van Riemsdyk-21
Bobrovsky, Gustafsson-22
Giroux-23
Versteeg-24
Meszaros, Powe-25
Carle, Carter, Coburn, Richards-26

Our key pieces over 30 are Briere, Timonen, and Pronger. The rest are replaceable.

We also have a few other guys who might be able to crack the line-up. I don't think we should be getting worried for another couple years.

flyersfan018 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 03:23 PM
  #43
EasyMac
Registered User
 
EasyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Versteeg is 24 and about to polish off his third consecutive 20+ goal season. In another year he could be 25 with 4 consecutive 20 goal seasons.

Could easily see him making a bit more on his next contract.
I can't see him making much more though, maybe up to about 3.5 million but unless next season he gets around 30 goals/60+ points I would be shocked to see anything higher.

EasyMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 03:24 PM
  #44
OriginJM
watch out im smart
 
OriginJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,126
vCash: 500
I could of told all of you this in a few words let alone a whole article.

OriginJM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 05:28 PM
  #45
RIPRichardsCarter
Registered User
 
RIPRichardsCarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I personally think Kimmo will retire after this contract is up.
Which is in 2-3 years...like I said we would have him for.

RIPRichardsCarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 05:43 PM
  #46
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Good timing on this Kimmo retiring talk...a tweet from today.

Quote:
euroflyers Teemu H
Birthday hero Timonen says he believes he will retire when his contract is up in two years.


Last edited by DUHockey9: 03-18-2011 at 06:31 PM.
DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 05:44 PM
  #47
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Which is in 2-3 years...like I said we would have him for.
No, you said 3-4. And there are still 9 other guys you claim we are keeping.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 06:20 PM
  #48
RIPRichardsCarter
Registered User
 
RIPRichardsCarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
No, you said 3-4. And there are still 9 other guys you claim we are keeping.
You don't think we'll lock up Coburn, Giroux, and JVR? We'll probably sign Leino and possibly Versteeg for a few years. Those players along with Richards, Carter, Pronger, Timonen, Hartnell, and Mez who are all signed make up a pretty nice core to work with for the next 3 years.

Pronger ~ 5 mil
Timonen ~ 6 mil
Richards ~ 5.5 mil
Carter ~ 5.5 mil
Hartnell ~ 4.2 mil
Meszaros ~ 4 mil

then depends on length, but...
Coburn ~ 4 mil
JVR ~ 3.5 mil
Giroux ~ 5 mil

Thats 42.7 million, 17.3 to work with...it's possible.



Like I said originally, I think we have a good enough core for the next few years to compete for a cup. Hopefully in that time we keep some first rounders and rebuild the farm.

RIPRichardsCarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 06:39 PM
  #49
Homeland Security
Mod Supervisor
HFBoards
 
Homeland Security's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY/FL
Country: United States
Posts: 16,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not surprising. Most of the guys below the NHL are known scrubs. However, I have no problem having a crappy farm system if the big club is winning.
Yeah but having some sort of depth to fill in when the big club suffers injuries is nice to have. Although I definitely see your point about if the big club is winning who cares.

__________________
Homeland Security is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2011, 06:48 PM
  #50
FlyerFire
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,255
vCash: 500
I love the Flyers just as much as all of you and yet I dont think we are as bad off as "reported". True we may not have much top end talent on the farm. They are up already. Rather have that that blow picks in the draft on players that dont pan out. Im fine with our picks and players.Glass is still half full, sorry. And no dont care to hear about who we need to resign etc. Management will get it done. Have faith

FlyerFire is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.