HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Friday Face-Offs, 3/18: Are Poile and Trotz Doing a Good Job?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-19-2011, 11:33 AM
  #26
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Good article Dave. Most of us are not happy with just being competitive. I know I am not. I think we disagree on the changes needed to get to the next level.

A general observation is that Trotz doesn't put our forwards in situations where they can succeed offensively and make the most out of their of strengths He has jerked Wilson around and benched him for making defensive mistakes. Yet he has let vets like Arnott and Sully get away with making those same mistakes and keep playing them. You can cite Kariya, SK and a few others for having great numbers under Trotz but the bottom line has shown no improvement in playoff performance.

Legwand is overpaid as a shutdown center. It wouldn't bother me as much if he was potting 20 goals at the same time but he's not. He has wiffed on multiple chances this year. As we say in 309, "You can't miss those".

Smithson is a workhorse no doubt but does he really need to be getting 10+ minutes a night?

I don't think we are just one guy away from going to the next level. I think we need adjustments in our current "system" to make us more competitive night in and night out. There has to be a better balance between being defensively responsible and offensive creativity. Whether we will see those changes is debatable.

I'm renewing because I love hockey and I want to keep this team here. I enjoy watching players on other teams. I can take off my Preds glasses occasionally and appreciate the talent I am watching 41 nights a year.
I agree with you that Legwand is overpaid as a shutdown center. I agree that the system needs a change in the future to get this team to the next level. I'll even agree that Smithson doesn't need to be getting 10+ minutes of ice time, but I'll add that it shouldn't be 10+ at even strength. If we take a ton of penalties in a game Smithson should be out there as much as possible killing them.

Now on to my disagreements. First, you're talking about Trotz jerking Wilson around for making mistakes, but allows Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, etc make the same mistakes without punishing them (maybe not so much Dumont recently, but in the past). This argument has been thrown around a lot in Preds history. Let's look at it from a different perspective, though. Maybe Trotz just understands that Wilson is still raw and can be coached. He has all of this natural ability and size, but his game can still be shaped. Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, etc are all seasoned vets. What do you do as a coach when you see a vet make the same mistake a rookie just made if you have already benched the rookie for it? Bench the vet and hope the lesson is, after so many seasons, finally learned? Or keep coaching the rookie so that one day he's better than that vet?

There's an old adage that comes to mind. You're a baseball coach, and you're watching two guys run to first base. Both guys run the same speed, but one has perfect form whereas the other doesn't. Who do you pick?

You pick the one without perfect form because he can be coached, and will be faster...

edit: I forgot to add my second disagreement haha... nothing major, but Legwand isn't paid to be a shutdown center. The contract he is on right now was earned as a scoring line center, and then Trotz moved him to a line with Smithson and Ward for a lot of last season. Yes he earns entirely too much money to be a shutdown center without producing decent offense, but when he's asked to play the role that earned him the contract he does produce. He's currently four points behind what he put up last year in 82, but he's played nearly thirty fewer games at this point (53). I don't think we'll ever see the 60 pt Legwand again, but if he's able to play on an actual scoring line (not just getting scoring line minutes) he does put up numbers for us.


Last edited by TMI: 03-19-2011 at 02:08 PM.
TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 01:08 PM
  #27
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
I work outside all morning...

...and come back to this.

PredsV82, I am certainly frustrated- but only because I do think this team is so close. That said, I not calling for Trotz or David Poile to be fired. I'm not advocating anyone "abandon ship" on these guys and not renew either. I understand, however, when one must make that choice.

I'm also not intending this to turn into a Legwand thread. Legwand is a lightening rod, so I do believe his usage is part of the discussion though. To me it's simple: a $4.5 million player on Nashville should be a top point producer for this team as should his linemates. If not, he has to be traded so that money can be reused.

I understand the frustrations that folks have seeing Wilson and other young players bounced around, but there are two reasons for it. ThirdManIn hit one reason right on the head- these guys are still coachable. The other reason is that they are being forced to grow up too fast (as in "top two lines") due to injury and poor play from veterans (or a combination like Sullivan and Fisher).

Are the Predators one elite player away from making a deep run? In my opinion, they are. However, I think it depends upon the elite player. A player like a Jarome Iginla, Marian Hossa, or Zach Parise would the type that I think would take this team deep (different reasons for each player). Firstly, they all are supreme goal scorers. Then they are either great two-way players or all heart-and-soul type players. Either way, they perfectly fit this team.

A player like that, surrounded with some combination of the solid veterans here (Legwand, Kostitsyn, Hornqvist, Wilson, Erat) would finally allow Nashville to dictate some of the matchups. They would also draw the most defensive coverage and force the opposition to think twice about focusing on another Nashville line that heats up.

On the PP, it might force the opposition to stop keying so much on Weber at the point. It should allow Hornqvist to capitalize on more shots going to the net (or be injured due to that).

All that combined has another important impact. It should give the team breathing room on the scoreboard. To me, the Predators seem spent at the end of each season. It's so hard on them every year to eek out wins that they are burn out just like we get in our own jobs. That's not a blueprint for longterm success nor does it encourage "employees" to enjoy coming to work everyday.

David Singleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 01:52 PM
  #28
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 15,577
vCash: 177
Now dont get me wrong, if we could add a scorer I'd be all for it, but Im not gonna bag on Poile for not being able to swing a trade for Parise or Bobby Ryan. I guess it just bothers me that some folks seem to think Poile could somehow land one of these great players if he was just willing to do so. I take issue with this. I think its just as ludicrous to act like poile has some aversion to top talent as it is to state that Im happy with us never winning a playoff series.


I always dislike the "do something" just for the sake of doing something mindset.

PredsV82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 02:16 PM
  #29
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,142
vCash: 500
The trouble with getting that elite forward that would open up space for the rest of the team, including Weber, is where do we find the money to get the goal scorer, keep Weber, sign Suter to keep Weber effective (Suter might be just as important to this as an elite goal scorer), and keep Rinne?

Now if we can't do all of those things, in what order do we begin letting players walk? In my opinion the best way to go about it is make sure Blum is the real deal. If he can step into Suter's role then I think you keep Weber, let Suter walk, and use that money to keep Rinne. If the organization is comfortable with Lindback and Dekanich going forward do you trade Rinne? I guess that would depend on the goalie market at the deadline, and our position in the standings. Also Lindback is only 23. Goalies tend to take longer to develop.

It's fun to think about, but there are so many things to look at before acquiring an elite forward.

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 02:16 PM
  #30
thejlb1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
The article isn't saying that Legwand can't produce, it's saying that if he is being paid $4.5 to produce offense, then he needs to be in that full-time role rather than being a shutdown center with Smithson and Ward. The question asked is have Poile/Trotz made good use of the money. You can bring in countless players that have a good defensive game that make $1M or less, so what is the point in wasting $4.5M on that roster spot when it could be used towards a more talented scorer. Regardless of why Legwand got the contract, it still has to be utilized to return maximum value on the dollars.

On top of that, the article was not just about Legwand, but overall team management. But I guess we all know what topic every single thread will eventually boil down to...
My point exactly the skill Legwand has on both offense and defense is tremendous. That is part of the reason he gets paid what he does.Like i said he got overpaid a little. I never said anyone said he couldn't produce. Nobodytakes into account the years he got underpaid for all the production on ice. Only complaign about

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
The trouble with getting that elite forward that would open up space for the rest of the team, including Weber, is where do we find the money to get the goal scorer, keep Weber, sign Suter to keep Weber effective (Suter might be just as important to this as an elite goal scorer), and keep Rinne?

Now if we can't do all of those things, in what order do we begin letting players walk? In my opinion the best way to go about it is make sure Blum is the real deal. If he can step into Suter's role then I think you keep Weber, let Suter walk, and use that money to keep Rinne. If the organization is comfortable with Lindback and Dekanich going forward do you trade Rinne? I guess that would depend on the goalie market at the deadline, and our position in the standings. Also Lindback is only 23. Goalies tend to take longer to develop.

It's fun to think about, but there are so many things to look at before acquiring an elite forward.
I'm a huge fan of suter but bottom line for me. If its Weber or Suter. I say bye bye suter. I am on the Blum bandwagon. (Wish I could watch some admiral games.) Have been hearing great things about him for a while, and now I get to see it live. M only complaint on blum is he likes to jump way down low to get in on the play. Which is fine as long as he picks the right time to do it. I cna't see us spending any more money on rinne. Its just too hard to put money on goalies nobody really does it anymore. hey become a dime a dozen.


Last edited by thejlb1: 03-19-2011 at 02:24 PM. Reason: added quote.
thejlb1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 02:18 PM
  #31
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Now dont get me wrong, if we could add a scorer I'd be all for it, but Im not gonna bag on Poile for not being able to swing a trade for Parise or Bobby Ryan. I guess it just bothers me that some folks seem to think Poile could somehow land one of these great players if he was just willing to do so. I take issue with this. I think its just as ludicrous to act like poile has some aversion to top talent as it is to state that Im happy with us never winning a playoff series.


I always dislike the "do something" just for the sake of doing something mindset.

Yeah... some of the comments on HF (not just Nashville's boards) make it seem like any GM can just make a phone call, offer up anything, and land Parise, Ryan, Weber, Suter, Doughty, etc. If the league operated the way some people think it does trades would happen every single day, and great players would end up going between six teams every year...

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 03:47 PM
  #32
glenngineer
HFB Partner
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,377
vCash: 500
You can land a guy like Parise or Ryan but you have to offer up Weber in return. A Parise for Weber deal is one I have thought about long and hard. It gives the Devils their next Scott Stevens and it gives us a bona fide top 3 forward who is a heart and soul guy. As much as I would hate to lose Weber, I think we can absorb the loss with what we have in our system and it moves everyone down one rung on the ladder which is exactly what we need to do at forward. While Weber is an extreme talent, so is Parise. I'm not saying it's an easy one and done phone call with Poile and Lou but it can happen if both teams were willing to sit down and listen.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 04:13 PM
  #33
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Now dont get me wrong, if we could add a scorer I'd be all for it, but Im not gonna bag on Poile for not being able to swing a trade for Parise or Bobby Ryan. I guess it just bothers me that some folks seem to think Poile could somehow land one of these great players if he was just willing to do so. I take issue with this. I think its just as ludicrous to act like poile has some aversion to top talent as it is to state that Im happy with us never winning a playoff series.


I always dislike the "do something" just for the sake of doing something mindset.
this is where I am also.

if I thought Poile could land a bobby ryan without sacrificing shea weber........hey, i'd jump all over it also. But he can't....and i think that cost is simply too high.

predfan98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 04:17 PM
  #34
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post

Smithson is a workhorse no doubt but does he really need to be getting 10+ minutes a night?
yes, he does.... he's an integral part of our penalty kill.

and he is 7th in the nhl in face offs...........

if he wasn't playing 10 minutes a night trotz wouldn't be utilizing him correctly.

predfan98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 04:23 PM
  #35
predfan24
Registered User
 
predfan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,535
vCash: 500
It's an interesting thing to think about. Everybody knows this team is carried by Suter,Weber and Rinne. However, with out D depth and upcoming players. Would we be a better team if we trades Suter or Weber for Zach Parise? Let's say Parise came in and scored 35-40 goals and about 75-80 points a year. Would he be able counteract the loss of Weber/Suter enough to make the team better? Even if someone like Josi or Ellis eventually became elite it would take a few years to get there. The D would be worse for at least some time there is no denying that. Would the trade-off be worth it?

predfan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 04:26 PM
  #36
predfan24
Registered User
 
predfan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
yes, he does.... he's an integral part of our penalty kill.

and he is 7th in the nhl in face offs...........

if he wasn't playing 10 minutes a night trotz wouldn't be utilizing him correctly.
I'm not so sure it's that simple. He can play PK time and just have his EV time cut back and still average 10-12 minutes a game. The face-off thing is great but some of that isn't so important when you take in the fact usually the line Smithson is on even if they have possession isn't a dangerous line. I can understand putting him out for draws in the D zone but I think it can surely be debated if he gets too much ice time, especially Even strength.

predfan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 05:06 PM
  #37
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
I'm not suggesting that Poile should "do something just to do something". I'm completely saying that he should have done something and now he's made it harder on himself to make the team any better.

I'm also telling you that anyone that thinks that this team could not have afforded Suter, Rinne, Weber and an elite forward at one time is completely wrong if we consider the cap midpoint as Poile's budget. The Fisher trade is where life got harder to to that.

It signaled to me that David Poile has no intentions to alter or evolve "the Predator way". It says to me that when this team's season ends and all the talk starts on what will be a "high priority" next season or what have you, it will be just that- talk.

Were/are there elite forwards to be had? I think if Poile had been aggressive, I think Iginla could have been had right after Sutter was fired. Semin could likely be had (although not the best fit). There are others. It's hard now though.

Consider this potential lineup prior to the Mike Fisher trade for next season with a $62 million cap (slightly less than what it will be) (Note that I used Iginla just for a representative salary of $7 million):

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
J.P. Dumont ($4.000m) / Matthew Lombardi ($3.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($3.083m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.250m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Nick Spaling ($0.950m)
Colin Wilson ($1.725m) / Marcel Goc ($2.000m) / Sergei Kostitsyn ($1.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($3.500m) / Shea Weber ($6.500m)
Kevin Klein ($1.350m) / Jonathon Blum ($0.941m)
Cody Franson ($0.800m) / Francis Bouillon ($1.350m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($3.400m) / Anders Lindback ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $53,525,000; BONUSES: $1,112,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $9,587,500

That leaves about $1.5 million in room.

I don't know if Poile could make a trade now, or even in the offseason. My argument is that he's passed up several opportunities and has made it harder with questionable moves like bringing in Fisher and Sully's last contract.

He's done a lot of great work. I think he's had a few questionable moves too. I'd take that lineup up there against anyone and give it a great shot.

Increases in the cap the following year as well as depending on younger players (like Geoffrion) playing the fourth line (so Wilson replaces Dumont so-to-speak) allows Suter and Rinne to be re-signed.

It could have been done. My argument is that several of Poile's decisions have made it much harder to do now. And it wouldn't be a shock to me if Weber or Suter walked due to the perception of being in a rut.

If that does come to pass, then I would call for Poile to be fired as there is absolutely no reason for it.

David Singleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 06:06 PM
  #38
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 15,577
vCash: 177
I think the main problem is that our 5 one-and-dones in 6 seasons looks like a "rut" but if you look closer its actually similar results from two very different team concepts.

Throw out the first playoff series prior to the lockout and just consider the two series with Leipold and the two with the new owners.

in the first two, we were actually the kind of team you and many others would like to see us be again. We had multiple stars, 30 goal scorers, and we made a huge amount of our scoring on the PP.

If we had kept that same roster for another two years and had the same results, I would agree that would be a "rut".


But the reality was those high powered star studded teams got blown completely to Hades by the firesale.

Then poile had to basically abandon everything he had been doing for 10 years to make us an elite team, and he was tasked with rebuilding the preds on a shoestring.

I think its pretty obvious that he hoped Arnott, Sully and Dumont would remain productive long enough for him to pull the other pieces together in a year or two. even with the Sully injury, it worked the first year, and almost worked the second year. By the third year of Preds 2.0(last year) it looked like maybe the vets were still productive enough to be effective and the youth was mature enough to contribute and get us over the hump.... and quite frankly we were a 10 second brainfart from getting to the second round and who knows where after that.

But the more rapid than expected decline in Sully, Arnott and Dumont and the unexpected departure of Radulov have taken their toll, and we are back to scrapping for the 8th spot again.

Whats different is now Poile has a vision for the future. Its based on 3 lines of nearly equal talent, all with good centers, who are both a threat to score and defensively responsible. the 11-12 preds wont resemble the 08-09 preds any more than the 08-09 resembled the 05-06 version.

The point being, it only looks like a rut because we have had the same unfortunate playoff result . But we sure didnt get that result playing the same system or even icing the same type of players. So to act like Poile is inflexible or is married to one "way" is not supported by facts.

regardless of how 10-11 turns out, I like the look of this team for next year and actually the next two years. I dont know if polies 3 equal line plan will work better or worse than a plan with one main scorer and one true scoring line, but it is most definitaly not just "the same old thing"

this was a long post and i got interrupted several times while typing it so if it makes no sense I apologize

PredsV82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 06:24 PM
  #39
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,732
vCash: 500
^ excellent point. I hadn't thought of that before. I like where this team is going. Lombardi, Legwand, and Fisher can all be very productive both ways, and I am very excited about Wilson's future. If Beck, Latta, Watson or Geoffrion (moved to wing) pan out, a line with any of those 3 centers and Wilson and the other prospect could be scary. And if that doesn't work out, we'll just stick with Erat, Kostitsyn, and co.

We know the back-end is solid with Weber-Suter + Blum, Josi, Ekhlm, Roussel and Ellis all on the way.

I think this could be an exciting team in 3-4 years if our #1 rated prospect pool reaches its potential

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 06:37 PM
  #40
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,561
vCash: 500
1) There is talk of the cap going up as much as 3 million which means the Preds rev sharing goes up 3 million and the Pred will have 3 million more to sign players

2) We think of Weber being 7 million but it's really a 2.5 Million dollar raise and Sullivan pays for that

BigFatCat999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 06:53 PM
  #41
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I think the main problem is that our 5 one-and-dones in 6 seasons looks like a "rut" but if you look closer its actually similar results from two very different team concepts.

Throw out the first playoff series prior to the lockout and just consider the two series with Leipold and the two with the new owners.

in the first two, we were actually the kind of team you and many others would like to see us be again. We had multiple stars, 30 goal scorers, and we made a huge amount of our scoring on the PP.

If we had kept that same roster for another two years and had the same results, I would agree that would be a "rut".


But the reality was those high powered star studded teams got blown completely to Hades by the firesale.

Then poile had to basically abandon everything he had been doing for 10 years to make us an elite team, and he was tasked with rebuilding the preds on a shoestring.

I think its pretty obvious that he hoped Arnott, Sully and Dumont would remain productive long enough for him to pull the other pieces together in a year or two. even with the Sully injury, it worked the first year, and almost worked the second year. By the third year of Preds 2.0(last year) it looked like maybe the vets were still productive enough to be effective and the youth was mature enough to contribute and get us over the hump.... and quite frankly we were a 10 second brainfart from getting to the second round and who knows where after that.

But the more rapid than expected decline in Sully, Arnott and Dumont and the unexpected departure of Radulov have taken their toll, and we are back to scrapping for the 8th spot again.

Whats different is now Poile has a vision for the future. Its based on 3 lines of nearly equal talent, all with good centers, who are both a threat to score and defensively responsible. the 11-12 preds wont resemble the 08-09 preds any more than the 08-09 resembled the 05-06 version.

The point being, it only looks like a rut because we have had the same unfortunate playoff result . But we sure didnt get that result playing the same system or even icing the same type of players. So to act like Poile is inflexible or is married to one "way" is not supported by facts.

regardless of how 10-11 turns out, I like the look of this team for next year and actually the next two years. I dont know if polies 3 equal line plan will work better or worse than a plan with one main scorer and one true scoring line, but it is most definitaly not just "the same old thing"

this was a long post and i got interrupted several times while typing it so if it makes no sense I apologize

There's definitely a lot of truth in that PredsV82. The two teams were definitely a little different.

I will say that the PP has never been this team's strong point. At it's very best, when loaded with lots of talent, it only produced at about a 18% rate (+/- a little).

One could make an argument that Poile just doesn't know how to build a team for the playoffs- especially if you look at his years in Washington. I won't go that far, but I think there is a kernel of truth to it.

What I'd like to have seen is a team that is a little more a combination of the two.

My mindset right now is that I think that this team will lose one or both of Weber and Suter in the next 2-3 years (by choice of the players).

If either leave, I think Poile should go. Simple as that. As great as Poile has been (and he has been great), you don't let two elite players like that leave- which means you build a team around them and make it one that contends.

David Singleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2011, 08:38 PM
  #42
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 15,577
vCash: 177
I dont think you can terminate poile on the whim of a couple of 20 something athletes. If either Weber or Suter leaves, it may or may not be due to a feeling that Poile isnt in it to win. It could be something as mundane as a desire to live closer to home or a woman.

I think to be fair to Poile we have to acknowledge that the last three years have been the salvage operation from the firesale and he is just now on a solid enough footing where he can truly take this team where he thinks it needs to go. Next year and the next after that should be the years that Poiles Preds 3.0 bears fruit.

If we are still having this same discussion at the end of 12-13, I'll probably be on your side

PredsV82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 10:09 AM
  #43
glenngineer
HFB Partner
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
1) There is talk of the cap going up as much as 3 million which means the Preds rev sharing goes up 3 million and the Pred will have 3 million more to sign players

2) We think of Weber being 7 million but it's really a 2.5 Million dollar raise and Sullivan pays for that
Do we get 3 million? If the cap goes up 3 million, the midpoint only goes up 1.5 million if I'm doing my math correctly, which would mean we'd only get another 1.5 million to spend.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 10:54 AM
  #44
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,561
vCash: 500
Midpoint goes up 3 million too. When the cap goes up the Preds spend tends to go up just as high. Thus, the theory, Mine, is that the rev. sharing goes up because the Preds tend to aim for break even/slight profit.

BigFatCat999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 11:00 AM
  #45
glenngineer
HFB Partner
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Midpoint goes up 3 million too. When the cap goes up the Preds spend tends to go up just as high. Thus, the theory, Mine, is that the rev. sharing goes up because the Preds tend to aim for break even/slight profit.
Not sure that's correct. If the cap is say 52 million and the bottom is 40 million, the midpoint is 46 million, correct? If the cap goes up 3 million to 55 million, the bottom goes up to 43 million which then puts the midpoint at 49 million which means you are absolutely correct...lol. I was forgetting to move the bottom up as well with the top. Duh on my part.

I NEED

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 11:07 AM
  #46
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,561
vCash: 500
The spread for the cap is 16 million. From the top to the bottom. When the top goes up 3 million, the bottom goes up 3 million and thus the mid-point goes up 3 million.

BigFatCat999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 11:45 AM
  #47
jlsg
Registered User
 
jlsg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 476
vCash: 500
What's funny about this is to think that there something more to the "Predator Way" other then play hard do your job. That's all the "Predator Way" is. Ask anyone on the team and that's what they'll tell you. Trotz doesn't kill forwards with his system, he doesn't have a system. His system changes constantly and he'll tell you that. The system we have now is a lot different then what we were doing 2 months ago. That's what makes him a good coach, he doesn't force a system on talent that can't do it.

Truth is if we didn't have to blow up the team a few years ago we would have had a couple of deep runs in the playoffs. Think of Weber, Suter and Timmo on the backend. Think of Wilson, Hornqvist and Hartnell on a line.

Poile and Trotz have done an exceptional job considering they were thrown under the bus by a previous owner.

jlsg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 11:52 AM
  #48
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
What's funny about this is to think that there something more to the "Predator Way" other then play hard do your job. That's all the "Predator Way" is. Ask anyone on the team and that's what they'll tell you. Trotz doesn't kill forwards with his system, he doesn't have a system. His system changes constantly and he'll tell you that. The system we have now is a lot different then what we were doing 2 months ago. That's what makes him a good coach, he doesn't force a system on talent that can't do it.

Truth is if we didn't have to blow up the team a few years ago we would have had a couple of deep runs in the playoffs. Think of Weber, Suter and Timmo on the backend. Think of Wilson, Hornqvist and Hartnell on a line.

Poile and Trotz have done an exceptional job considering they were thrown under the bus by a previous owner.
It's also possible Radulov stays if he thinks he's going to be competing for the Cup every year. Not to mention free agent attractions. Also we might have a goalie tandem up Vokoun and Rinne, though it's more likely we would've traded one of them (Vokoun) to save money.

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 12:10 PM
  #49
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
What's funny about this is to think that there something more to the "Predator Way" other then play hard do your job. That's all the "Predator Way" is. Ask anyone on the team and that's what they'll tell you. Trotz doesn't kill forwards with his system, he doesn't have a system. His system changes constantly and he'll tell you that. The system we have now is a lot different then what we were doing 2 months ago. That's what makes him a good coach, he doesn't force a system on talent that can't do it.

Truth is if we didn't have to blow up the team a few years ago we would have had a couple of deep runs in the playoffs. Think of Weber, Suter and Timmo on the backend. Think of Wilson, Hornqvist and Hartnell on a line.

Poile and Trotz have done an exceptional job considering they were thrown under the bus by a previous owner.
My references to "the Predator way" have generally all been in terms of how Poile builds the team.

I also think that both have done a great job to this point (and said so multiple times).

I had three goals with this article:

1) Yes, they've done a great job. But, they've also made some significant mistakes and/or have noticeable areas that tend to always be a problem in Trotz's case. Those tend to be glossed over by the mainstream media and a lot of Predator fans. I wanted to bring about discussion regarding those areas.

2) Express my opinion that the way this team is built has to evolve a little bit if it's going to see a deep run in the playoffs (again, my opinion). My main problem with Fisher's acquisition (a non-rental) was that it seemed to indicate that the team was going to continue to be built around average to good forwards. That get's you to the playoffs if you can keep Weber, Suter and Rinne. What if they get tired of that? Then what?

3) There tends to be this notion that Nashville could not afford an elite forward plus the trio of Suter, Weber and Rinne (putting aside how that elite forward would be acquired). That notion has fueled this thought among mainstream media that the way Poile is building the franchise is the only way to do so and compete. I finally wanted to point out how much hogwash that was. Whether Poile's way is the right way or what I'm suggesting is the right way, the point is that the money exists to do either.

Good stuff folks.

David Singleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2011, 12:14 PM
  #50
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Not sure that's correct. If the cap is say 52 million and the bottom is 40 million, the midpoint is 46 million, correct? If the cap goes up 3 million to 55 million, the bottom goes up to 43 million which then puts the midpoint at 49 million which means you are absolutely correct...lol. I was forgetting to move the bottom up as well with the top. Duh on my part.

I NEED
With this CBA, BFC is correct.

There's always a consistent $16 million difference between the ceiling and floor.

Of course, this CBA ends after next season and there are indications the gap between the floor and ceiling will be brought up for discussion.

David Singleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.