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Kings vs. Ducks - 03/19/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
03-20-2011, 11:28 AM
  #101
Harold Snepsts
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Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
Everyone is Quicks butt-buddy now? Despite him being less than average for a long period of time? Its okay. Its not your guys' fault, but your favorite goalie just isn't that good. Not saying it was his fault for the loss tonight, but facts are facts and if you try and dispute that he hasn't been good you might as well try and argue that Westgarth is a 50 goal scorer in this league.
Exactly what facts are you bringing up about Quick? Because all I see are opinions.

Quick played well last night, the Kings once again could not buy a friggin goal. And Doughty needs to check his stick because it seems like every slapper he took was about three feet high and wide to the left.

The PP is brutal. I can't remember who the coach is, but if there's any coaching change that's going to be made it should start there. Their power play should not be this awful.

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03-20-2011, 12:29 PM
  #102
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Quick played well enough for the Kings to win in regulation. The problem Kings had was that they once again lacked scoring. That and stupid turnovers.

Crowd was great tonight, just another bitter result at home.
Quick did have a good game, but when your teammates score only 1, any miscue gets magnified. When you try to do a poke-check, you really shouldn't be IN your crease. Go out there and challenge the shooter, who really had no other option than to go to the left, as he eventually did. Quick still has a hard time reading what the shooter's options are, and reacting accordingly.

But like I said, when the "offense" has a pure **** PP, all goals against get magnified. How can Kompon still be on the staff?!

And the crowd was GREAT, louder than several PO games (of the 3 I've seen over the last 8 or 9 years!). There was a constant buzz throughtout the game.

Monday vs Calgary really becomes a MUST WIN game, in regulation. You really should not be losing 3 home games in a row going into the POs.

Why can't this team seem to win big games at home lately? ? ? ? ?

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03-20-2011, 12:51 PM
  #103
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... For those talking (or *****ing and griping) about the power play, here's a bit of food for thought - take these any way you like.

The Kings' PP for the season is a little worse than NHL average. The Kings have converted 43 out of 257. The average NHL team converts 46 out of 258. So, three more goals over the course of 72 games has made the difference between an average PP and the Kings' PP.

Before the Kings acquired Dustin Penner, they had converted 39 out of 226 (17.3%).
Since the Kings' acquisition of Penner, they have converted 4 out of 31 (12.9%).

In the nine games he's played with the Kings, Penner has averaged about 3 and a half minutes per game on the power play (only Kopitar has more PP time per game). Penner has zero points with the man advantage.

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03-20-2011, 01:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... For those talking (or *****ing and griping) about the power play, here's a bit of food for thought - take these any way you like.

The Kings' PP for the season is a little worse than NHL average. The Kings have converted 43 out of 257. The average NHL team converts 46 out of 258. So, three more goals over the course of 72 games has made the difference between an average PP and the Kings' PP.

Before the Kings acquired Dustin Penner, they had converted 39 out of 226 (17.3%).
Since the Kings' acquisition of Penner, they have converted 4 out of 31 (12.9%).

In the nine games he's played with the Kings, Penner has averaged about 3 and a half minutes per game on the power play (only Kopitar has more PP time per game). Penner has zero points with the man advantage.
The thing is, they're 19th in the league in terms of PP percentage. Not great for a team wanting to make the playoffs. It would be less of a problem if they weren't 22nd in the league in goal scoring. Those two combined are a big problem. Even strength or on the PP, this team struggles to score goals.

A lot of games they're in the mix and are working hard, they just can't quite finish. It's frustrating to watch them dominate a team like they did the Ducks last night and still end up losing.

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03-20-2011, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Quick did have a good game, but when your teammates score only 1, any miscue gets magnified. When you try to do a poke-check, you really shouldn't be IN your crease. Go out there and challenge the shooter, who really had no other option than to go to the left, as he eventually did. Quick still has a hard time reading what the shooter's options are, and reacting accordingly.
He also made a couple good saves to keep the Kings in it, I agree that poke check was not done correctly. Kings just turned it over too many times in this game, Quick made a great save on a breakaway.


Quote:
And the crowd was GREAT, louder than several PO games (of the 3 I've seen over the last 8 or 9 years!). There was a constant buzz throughtout the game.
I showed up at Staples at 5pm and LA Live was packed already.

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03-20-2011, 02:00 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
The thing is, they're 19th in the league in terms of PP percentage. Not great for a team wanting to make the playoffs. It would be less of a problem if they weren't 22nd in the league in goal scoring. Those two combined are a big problem. Even strength or on the PP, this team struggles to score goals.

A lot of games they're in the mix and are working hard, they just can't quite finish. It's frustrating to watch them dominate a team like they did the Ducks last night and still end up losing.
This has been the Kings since Murray came here. I am thrilled with our defense (read: defenseman and forwards playing defense) but on the offensive side of the puck, he has brought little. The Kings are not a balanced team. They go on streaks but overall, the only line that is dangerous right now is the Penner-Kopitar-Williams line and so long as Murray matches them up against the other team's top offensive opponents (verses using the third line, which I thought was the proclaimed shut down line), they will not be as effective.

So much of this game comes down to coaching. Last night, Carlyle was happy to match up top v. top line. That is what he wanted. Murray played right into it.

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03-20-2011, 02:41 PM
  #107
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Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Handzus-Brown
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth


Smyth and Handzus together again?

Terry Murray.

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03-20-2011, 02:53 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Handzus-Brown
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth


Smyth and Handzus together again?

Terry Murray.
Brown stuck with slow linemates.

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03-20-2011, 02:56 PM
  #109
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Brown stuck with slow linemates.
yeah, not good. the only hope for brown to not turnover the puck when he's doing his one-trick spin in the offensive zone is if someone is there to help him out.

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03-20-2011, 02:58 PM
  #110
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Zus and Smyth together....o jeeze, this aint gonna be pretty...

Penner-Kopi-Williams
Poni-Stoll-Brown
Smyth-Lewis-Simmonds
Richardson-Zus-Westgarth(ugh)

please?

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Old
03-20-2011, 02:59 PM
  #111
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Put your two oldest/slowest players together, real smart TM.


****ing ****face

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03-20-2011, 03:01 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Handzus-Brown
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth


Smyth and Handzus together again?

Terry Murray.
Boy it sure would be nice to have Schenn or Loktionov available for a 2nd line role. This is totally on Murray and Lombardi for kidding themselves into thinking Jarret Stoll was a 2nd line center. He clearly isn't a 2nd line player and this is where he belongs, the only problem is, instead of inserting one of those players he moves Zus who also isn't a 2nd liner up there. Awful roster management from coaches and management.

And what on Earth is it going to take to get Smyth out of the lineup. Just pathetic. I feel bad for Brown.

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03-20-2011, 03:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Zus and Smyth together....o jeeze, this aint gonna be pretty...

Penner-Kopi-Williams
Poni-Stoll-Brown
Smyth-Lewis-Simmonds
Richardson-Zus-Westgarth(ugh)

please?
Problem with those lines is who do you have as your stopper line.

Smyth is the Kings worst defensive forward, he can't play a defensive role. Same with Westgarth.

They should keep Poni-Zues-Simmonds and call up Moller and put Smyth in the pressbox.

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03-20-2011, 03:53 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Problem with those lines is who do you have as your stopper line.

Smyth is the Kings worst defensive forward, he can't play a defensive role. Same with Westgarth.

They should keep Poni-Zues-Simmonds and call up Moller and put Smyth in the pressbox.
Murray uses Kopitar as the "stopper" line. He always matches them up agains the other top line at home. It makes zero sense, but he did it again versus the Ducks.

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03-20-2011, 04:21 PM
  #115
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Again, the Kings win some games and Terry gets no credit. Kings lose a couple games, and the Terry bashing begins.

Handzus was actually one of our better players last night.

I'd like to see:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Richardson-Handzus-Brown
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Simmonds
Smyth-Lewis-*Holloway/Cliche

*Or any other Manchester call up until Clifford is ready.

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03-20-2011, 04:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Boy it sure would be nice to have Schenn or Loktionov available for a 2nd line role. This is totally on Murray and Lombardi for kidding themselves into thinking Jarret Stoll was a 2nd line center. He clearly isn't a 2nd line player and this is where he belongs, the only problem is, instead of inserting one of those players he moves Zus who also isn't a 2nd liner up there. Awful roster management from coaches and management.

And what on Earth is it going to take to get Smyth out of the lineup. Just pathetic. I feel bad for Brown.
Stoll is not the problem. Regarding the two players you mentioned, it would be nice if one wasn't injured and the other one was ready.

We are at the point of the season where you let the players that put you in the position you are in decide things. I wouldn't mind seeing Smyth get a rest though.

You criticize the management and the alternatives you suggest (Loktionov and Schenn) are not even viable.

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03-20-2011, 04:38 PM
  #117
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Again, the Kings win some games and Terry gets no credit. Kings lose a couple games, and the Terry bashing begins.
I disagree, Murray gets a lot of credit for the defensive structure from most fans, even his non-supporters. Murray also received credit for trying to change up the PP and keeping the top line together.

The defensive side of the game is now ingrained into the team, it is now time to get the offense going and putting the 2 slowest players together and expecting offense is just stupid. Handzus and Smyth together has never worked as an offensive unit and if this line stays together on the road, other teams will exploit it with the last change.

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03-20-2011, 04:41 PM
  #118
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Man, it would be really nice to have Clifford's toughness vs. Calgary...I get the feeling we're gonna get roughed out of the building by a desperate team :/

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03-20-2011, 06:06 PM
  #119
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Emery...

Kings were ok, but Emery was solid last night.

Too many of the King's initial shots go wide and/or high = no rebounds.

Quick played well, but should have stopped that last shot. It's not like he doesn't know it. Then again that breakaway should hav enever happened.

Penner is a beast as far as puck posession and hockey sense.

Westgarth = I'm sure he's a nice guy but he's a complete waste of space and nowhere near NHL level.

Murray needs to be fired at the end of this season.

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03-20-2011, 06:29 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I disagree, Murray gets a lot of credit for the defensive structure from most fans, even his non-supporters. Murray also received credit for trying to change up the PP and keeping the top line together.

The defensive side of the game is now ingrained into the team, it is now time to get the offense going and putting the 2 slowest players together and expecting offense is just stupid. Handzus and Smyth together has never worked as an offensive unit and if this line stays together on the road, other teams will exploit it with the last change.
Oh come on. The little praise Terry gets when the Team is doing well, isn't nearly as fierce as the criticism he receives when the team is struggling. There's no point in debating it, it's a simple fact.

I agree about Smyth/Handzus being paired together; I don't like it, but I'll reserve my judgement.

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03-20-2011, 06:51 PM
  #121
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Stoll is not the problem. Regarding the two players you mentioned, it would be nice if one wasn't injured and the other one was ready.

We are at the point of the season where you let the players that put you in the position you are in decide things. I wouldn't mind seeing Smyth get a rest though.

You criticize the management and the alternatives you suggest (Loktionov and Schenn) are not even viable.
Stoll is fine...really are you kidding me?

That line has been the worst in the NHL over the past 10-20 games. Obviously a good chunk of the blame falls on Smyth's god awful play. But Stoll has proven once again that he is terribly overmatched in the role the Kings have given him.

Interesting that you now want to give Smyth a rest. Finally seeing the light how awful he has been, last week you were saying my evaluation of him "sucked" and he was still a solid contributor to the team.

As for Schenn not being ready, he should have been up here playing limited minutes, practicing and growing into the system and I think by now he could have been contributing in a 2nd line role, same with Loktionov. Contributing more than the 7 points and -12 that Stoll has contributed the last 20 games.

But ya...Stoll is playing "fine"

Schenn and Loktionov could not be any worse than Stoll and Smyth have been. But unfprtunately they are not here because TM and DL insist on having a goon like Westgarth in the lineup more often than not and use a roster spot on Peter Harrold.

Sorry I think sending down Schenn was a mistake then and it's an even bigger mistake now with the lack of production from the "2nd line"

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03-20-2011, 07:16 PM
  #122
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I disagree, Murray gets a lot of credit for the defensive structure from most fans, even his non-supporters. Murray also received credit for trying to change up the PP and keeping the top line together.

The defensive side of the game is now ingrained into the team, it is now time to get the offense going and putting the 2 slowest players together and expecting offense is just stupid. Handzus and Smyth together has never worked as an offensive unit and if this line stays together on the road, other teams will exploit it with the last change.
This^

TM has served his purpose.

Our D system is set and integrated. OUr kids now know that we play a D first responsible game and that is all due to TM. His time is now finished. I see TM as more of a consultant with a keen insight into how to build a respectable defencive system then I ever will a coach. That was what was said about him when he left Philly and Fla and I absolutely agree (not verbatim but thematically correct).

Under his system we have and will win games but TM isn't a coach who shows much ability to adapt on the fly and as such is a liability to our overall chances to win it all in my opinion.

My problem is that I was lucky to have been coached by one of the greatest coaches of all time (Coaches poll top 20) in Brian Killer Kilrea and while it is unfair to TM for me to constantly compare him with BK I can't help but to do so.

Kilrea would take us in after a bad period and spend ten minutes working with his coaches and then a few minutes with a handful of players (alts and caps) and then tell the team what we were gonna do differently. He would spend endless hours watching anything he could get his hands on about our opponents in the offseason and then have a game plan for each team when we came to camp.

We used those as a loose outline of how to play against certain coaches and then before the game would start he would add in changes based on certain players or any wrinkles that the coach might have added.

We were the best prepared team both physically and mentally when it came time to play. We would get beaten like everyone else but the same team would never get us twice in a row. Killer would grab you by the neck when you were on the bench and say "its your turn g-dmt go friggin do" and then give you a specific order to follow and when you did what he told you it worked. He was our game changer.

TM simply isn't that guy. If you compare TM to Tippet you can see the difference even more. Tippet grabs his players and makes changes on the fly, knows when and how to use his time outs and if something or someone isn't working right he will address the something first and then the someone.

Meh to me for grumping and bringing up the past. I guess its just that I have been against TM from day one and he proved me to be completely wrong. He came in and did an admirable job at establishing our defencive system and at building the beginning of an expect to win mentality as well.

But after that he has done nothing else to move us forward.

That's why TM in my opinion isn't the guy who is going to take us to the finals and help us lift the cup. He will run up against a coach who can innovate, he will run into a coach who can think on the fly and when he does he will have no response with the exception of sticking to his game plan and that is what I think will cost us the chance to win it all.

We have the horses and the guns, we need a general who can think on his feet and know how to be innovative. Not an automaton who bleeps out orders based on his dated views.

Go Kings Go!



(in Nashville? are we still doing that? i got confused)


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Old
03-20-2011, 07:22 PM
  #123
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Stoll is fine...really are you kidding me?

That line has been the worst in the NHL over the past 10-20 games. Obviously a good chunk of the blame falls on Smyth's god awful play. But Stoll has proven once again that he is terribly overmatched in the role the Kings have given him.

Interesting that you now want to give Smyth a rest. Finally seeing the light how awful he has been, last week you were saying my evaluation of him "sucked" and he was still a solid contributor to the team.

As for Schenn not being ready, he should have been up here playing limited minutes, practicing and growing into the system and I think by now he could have been contributing in a 2nd line role, same with Loktionov. Contributing more than the 7 points and -12 that Stoll has contributed the last 20 games.

But ya...Stoll is playing "fine"

Schenn and Loktionov could not be any worse than Stoll and Smyth have been. But unfprtunately they are not here because TM and DL insist on having a goon like Westgarth in the lineup more often than not and use a roster spot on Peter Harrold.

Sorry I think sending down Schenn was a mistake then and it's an even bigger mistake now with the lack of production from the "2nd line"
Your evaluation of Smyth's value to the team does suck. Doesn't mean he couldn't use a break.

Schenn is in junior because he was overmatched against NHL players. I am hoping he gets to see some playoff games in Manchester later in the season so he can get some more experience.

Loktionov is injured. You want to bring Moller up? I'm ok with that, but what makes him a better option than Richardson?

Stoll and Smyth are going to play the rest of the way barring injury. Since their combined 38 goals and 42 assists have been a big part of the Kings being where they are right now, I'm not ready to throw them under the bus.

I don't see any call ups happening unless Clifford is going to be out an extended period of time.

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03-20-2011, 07:33 PM
  #124
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We fundamentally disagree on who should be playing.

I think we should be playing the best and most productive players right now in the Spring of 2011, you want to reward players for what they did in October. I understand that, I am not disputing Smyth and Stoll played well for the first 25 games and were a big reason for the Kings success early on, but that was a long time ago.

I just have a hard time with the term "cemented" or "locked in" when it comes to pro athletes, I think even you know these guys have been two of the worst players in the NHL the past 20 games. And considering Smyth disappeared at this time last season, I have a hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt. Stoll may be going through one of his trademark slumps and is now in a better spot on the 3rd line, I can live with that. I think he will do better without the pressure to produce offense. He really should never see a scoring line again, though.

Smyth should not be playing, period. There is no place on any line for him. He can't score enough to be on a scoring line, he is awful defensively and can't be on a checking line and provides no physical play or energy for the 4th line.

In baseball terms he would be DFA'ed...to bad hockey doesn't offer that.

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03-21-2011, 01:53 AM
  #125
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Are there any other teams that use their first line as their shut down line or is it just the Kings? No wonder we are not better at home we don't use our advantage.

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