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Old
03-20-2011, 04:36 PM
  #1
Alternate Jersey
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Kings vs. Flames

thought i'd put up a pre-game talk thread since we're already moving on from the atrocity that was last night's game in the PGT thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Handzus-Brown
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth


Smyth and Handzus together again?

Terry Murray.
also announced by hammond: no clifford, quick starting in net.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/03/20...ice-update-14/

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Old
03-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  #2
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Well, here goes nothing.

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Old
03-20-2011, 04:49 PM
  #3
DAkings20
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When Terry met Ryan


+










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Old
03-20-2011, 05:03 PM
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Sydor25
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I know some of us like to ***** about Murray too much, but can anyone explain the "new" lines and how they make sense as a hockey team? I'm just glad that the Kopitar line is still together.

I see a coach breaking up the "stopper" line (even though he uses Kopitar as the stopper line, yet another problem) and putting the slowest winger with the slowest, defensive center.

Why not try this:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Poni-Stoll-Brown
Richardson-Handzus-Simmonds
Smyth-Lewis-Westgarth/Clifford

Smyth shouldn't be getting more than 8-10 minutes a night until he starts to produce again. You can move Poni up because he has been the best LW on the team for a week He plays hard and can keep up with Brown and Stoll. Ricahrdson isn't as strong as Poni, but he plays hard and has the speed to play a defensive game.


This is what Murray has now:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams = Stopper line?
Smyth-Handzus-Brown = Too slow for offense and terrible defensive wingers
Poni-Stoll-Simmonds = Is this now the offensive 2nd line? Strong defensive wingers with an uncreative center.
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth = okay 4th line, good speed to cover for Westgarth, only gets 5-7 minutes.

So, someone please explain Murray's thinking for the 2nd and 3rd lines? How does this improve the offense?

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:11 PM
  #5
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Poni-Stoll-Simmonds is actually okay. Good energy and should bring it while they're on the ice. If it wasn't for what to do with Smyth and Handzus I'd have wanted to see that a little while ago. The second line sucks.

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:11 PM
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Sydor25
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Quote:
Kyle Clifford will not be able to play tomorrow, but the hope is that he will be ready to return for Thursday’s game. Terry Murray said Clifford is not experiencing any headaches or problems, and that he expects Clifford back on the ice in the next couple days. Jonathan Quick will get the start tomorrow
I know that the problems at home are on offense, but why go back to Quick when the rotation was working and the Kings were winning? Did Terry learn nothing from Quick's fade last season? Maybe Quick doesn't play as well in the pressure games at the end of the season? He's made some great stops, but the goals against on this homestand haven't been very good ones.

Quick's last 5 starts: 2-2-1
Bernier's last 5 starts: 4-0-1

Win and you're in, Terry?

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Poni-Stoll-Simmonds is actually okay. Good energy and should bring it while they're on the ice. If it wasn't for what to do with Smyth and Handzus I'd have wanted to see that a little while ago. The second line sucks.
But if they are used as the "shutdown" line, how are the Kings going to get offense from the "2nd" line? The Kings are fine on defense, the lines should be changed to create offense, not make it weaker on the ice.

When has Smyth-Handzus ever worked?

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Smyth shouldn't be getting more than 8-10 minutes a night until he starts to produce again. You can move Poni up because he has been the best LW on the team for a week He plays hard and can keep up with Brown and Stoll. Ricahrdson isn't as strong as Poni, but he plays hard and has the speed to play a defensive game.
not really answering your original question--so sorry about that. but i'd actually rather have poni on the 3rd line and richardson on the 2nd. richardson is massively fast and i personally think he's relatively creative in the offensive zone, and recovers just about as many pucks as he turns over. i think along with stoll and brown (at least when they are playing their A-game) that line would have the potential to be very fast and create some opportunities. and i think poni's play is much more suited to a 3rd line role. he has shown that he responds to dump-ins quite well, and usually gets to the puck just as the opposing player does, or even before, and can keep it in til simmonds and zus come in to play it. that, to me, would be a really great stopping line, and maybe has some potential for creating chances, too.

i think it sucks to put smyth on the fourth line, because that is definitely not the kind of role he's suited for. but i tend to agree with the idea of lowering of his minutes right now, and there's not really anywhere else to put him.

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:20 PM
  #9
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I love Smyth, but one more year of him at 6.2Mil is absurd. It's only going to hurt the team. I really think Lombardi tries to ship him off to Edmonton over the summer. And I seriously doubt Edmonton bites.

Its too bad. We'd have a crapload of cap space again if Smyth was gone...

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:24 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I know some of us like to ***** about Murray too much, but can anyone explain the "new" lines and how they make sense as a hockey team? I'm just glad that the Kopitar line is still together.

I see a coach breaking up the "stopper" line (even though he uses Kopitar as the stopper line, yet another problem) and putting the slowest winger with the slowest, defensive center.

Why not try this:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Poni-Stoll-Brown
Richardson-Handzus-Simmonds
Smyth-Lewis-Westgarth/Clifford

Smyth shouldn't be getting more than 8-10 minutes a night until he starts to produce again. You can move Poni up because he has been the best LW on the team for a week He plays hard and can keep up with Brown and Stoll. Ricahrdson isn't as strong as Poni, but he plays hard and has the speed to play a defensive game.
Since Clifford is out, I'd much prefer a Manchester call up in that spot. Holloway or Cliche would suffice IMO.

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:30 PM
  #11
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Handzus did have a strong game last night. Not saying he deserves to be on the second line, but it doesn't even matter. I'm sure they will get changed again during the game.

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:33 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate Jersey View Post
not really answering your original question--so sorry about that. but i'd actually rather have poni on the 3rd line and richardson on the 2nd. richardson is massively fast and i personally think he's relatively creative in the offensive zone, and recovers just about as many pucks as he turns over. i think along with stoll and brown (at least when they are playing their A-game) that line would have the potential to be very fast and create some opportunities. and i think poni's play is much more suited to a 3rd line role. he has shown that he responds to dump-ins quite well, and usually gets to the puck just as the opposing player does, or even before, and can keep it in til simmonds and zus come in to play it. that, to me, would be a really great stopping line, and maybe has some potential for creating chances, too.
Richardson on the 2nd line would work on a lot of teams, just not a Murray coached one. That 2nd line wouldn't have a strong enough board presence to succeed with Murray as the coach. In Murray's mind, he thinks that Handzus and Smyth will work because they can both play in front of the net, he just doesn't seem to understand that you need a forecheck to recover the puck on the dumps to get a net presence. Both Handzus and Smyth are too slow to get to the dumps and even if they do recover the puck, they are too slow to get to the front before the point shot goes wide or is easily stopped for a faceoff. That new "2nd" line will only succeed with offensive zone faceoff wins.

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Old
03-20-2011, 05:49 PM
  #13
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A bit worried about this one. It will be a hard hitting game for sure.

Lets not forget this.


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Old
03-20-2011, 05:58 PM
  #14
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The Flames are going to be playing desperate hockey the rest of the way. The Kings seem to turn it up a notch when they are in a game like this.

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Old
03-20-2011, 06:01 PM
  #15
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Flames on the 2nd of a back to back. Watch them lose tonight and beat the Kings just like the Blues did.

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Old
03-20-2011, 06:20 PM
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Is it possible Smyth is hurt of just worn down and needs a break?
At the beginning of the season I thought we were going to be deeper then this.

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Old
03-20-2011, 06:38 PM
  #17
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Go team!

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Old
03-20-2011, 06:51 PM
  #18
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The Kings need more speed and not Smyth on that line until he starts to produce more.

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Old
03-20-2011, 07:20 PM
  #19
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I posted this in the last PGT, but yeah...I really wish Clifford was back for this game :/ I think we're gonna miss his toughness.

And I have a very bad feeling about this game. Calgary always gives us fits, this team is shaky on home ice (who knows why) lately, and they're a DESPERATE team on the second night of a back-to-back. I'm pretty scared they're gonna physically punish us right out of the building.

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03-20-2011, 07:43 PM
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DAkings20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
A bit worried about this one. It will be a hard hitting game for sure.

Lets not forget this.

I doubt we see any repercussions from that especially since we've already played them again since then. It will be physical though, hopefully the Flames are beat up from tonight against the quackers.

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03-20-2011, 07:55 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Didn't you accuse Johnjm of whining yesterday when he predicted Anaheim would beat the Kings.

It's not whining, the Kings are struggling on home ice. It's a fact.



No, he is just a bad hockey player who can't play a full season, a guy the Kings should have never acquired to begin with. The injury excuse was used last year when Smyth pulled a Casper (credit Die Hard), not going to fall for it this year.

Two straight years of Mr. October and November and then nothing down the stretch. Thanks Pros Pro.
This is getting beyond ridiculous. Smyth has been a key element in Kopitar's development. To say he never should have been acquired? Why? His cap hit certainly isn't effecting the Kings ability to add players. He has brought a great deal more than just his play on the ice to the organization.

He could probably use a break at this point in the season, but it looks like he will be forced to gut it out. His minutes will continue to be reduced by Murray if need be.

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03-20-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAkings20 View Post
I doubt we see any repercussions from that especially since we've already played them again since then. It will be physical though, hopefully the Flames are beat up from tonight against the quackers.
Totally forgot the game they played in February.

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03-20-2011, 08:07 PM
  #23
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its possible that murray prefers to play quick against a strong, physical team like CAL. Quick has a bigger body and tends to fight through screens pretty well..while bernier still looks a bit fragile and flustered at times when bodies are around the crease

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03-20-2011, 08:13 PM
  #24
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I just don't understand why they are breaking up the 3rd line. They have all been playing so well recently. Poni has played by far his best hockey of the season, and Simmonds and Handzus have a nice chemistry going.

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03-20-2011, 09:52 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I know that the problems at home are on offense, but why go back to Quick when the rotation was working and the Kings were winning? Did Terry learn nothing from Quick's fade last season? Maybe Quick doesn't play as well in the pressure games at the end of the season? He's made some great stops, but the goals against on this homestand haven't been very good ones.

Quick's last 5 starts: 2-2-1
Bernier's last 5 starts: 4-0-1

Win and you're in, Terry?
... Yeah, it's at the point where I don't really want to talk too much more about it, myself. It's Quick to the end of the season, I suppose. There aren't any back-to-backs until the last two against Anaheim, so maybe Bernier gets one start.

Quick had a good game yesterday, so we'll see. He's going to get every opportunity to succeed, or to fail. He'd likely have to fall flat on his face to get Terry to change his mind, and I'm certainly not going to root for that to happen. If Murray wants to put one guy ahead of the team, and to throw his own system of accountability out the window, that's on him. I just want to see the team win. I hope Bernier is part of that; he's earned it, but I doubt we'll see him given the chance.

I'd rather see Bernier dealt off in the off-season than to see a repeat in 2011-12 of this ****show with the goaltending position. If he's not going to get a shot here, he'll get one elsewhere - maybe with Ottawa, maybe with Tampa Bay, who knows - a few teams out there could use a guy who will be a number one for years. Leaving Bernier to rot on the bench for 55-60 games again next season would just be terrible asset management and would serve no purpose whatsoever.

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