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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
03-21-2011, 11:21 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
See the above salary table I pasted in. Feel free to discuss any estimates you feel are unreasonably low. And let's not start down the road of seriously discussing whether they'll prioritize acting like nice guys over keeping a two-time Norris finalist. If we're taking the premise that the team is 100% committed to bringing all of the cast of characters who star in a hypothetical deep playoff run, then something has to give, and that something will be fringe players before it's star players.
I can't see Hannan and Arnott feeling like they need to take 33% pay cuts coming off a cup. And coming off a cup I also feel Knuble and Laich will want more than what you have allotted. Also Wideman's cap hit is $3.937.5 and Chimera's $1.875, not big differences to what you have but still.

The only realistic scenario with Poti IMO that helps with the cap is that he is on LTIR for the rest of his career. But that only allows them to exceed the cap, it doesn't gain them any cap space, so that would mean they are up against the cap for 2 more years.

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03-21-2011, 11:21 AM
  #102
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Let's never forget that Green has to play with a ball and chain around his leg: Jeff Schultz.

Green is an elite offensive talent. IMO, Green-Hannan makes Green a different player and boosts the team O. But Coach Boudreau doesn't see it.

Schultz isn't terrible, really. But let's face it he's a soft, bottom pairing man, he has good reach and a decent pass. But he's so easy to play against that replacing Schultz might make the team a lot better. Having him with Green is buffoonery.

Hannan Green
Alzner Carlson
Wideman ________ (someone mean)
Ottawa prospect Jared Cowen would be the ideal replacement for Schultz. Similar in size to Schultz and has the long reach like Schultz, even had a bout with mono to delay his development like Schultz. The difference is that the 6'5" Cowen plays with grit and is deemed a physical shut down defenseman that clears the crease.

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03-21-2011, 11:28 AM
  #103
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Sure if everyone decided to take healthy discounts to stay with the Caps they could but realistically keeping them all but coming off a cup that isn't going to happen.

And they aren't trading Poti simply because nobody is going to take damaged goods for an almost $3 mil cap hit and I can't see McPhee Nylandering him seeing as he signed a home team discounted contract to stay.

Cup of not I don't see Chimera staying as they can't afford to commit that much to a guy playing that role going forward if they hope to keep the more important players.
This is what I see as well. If the Cody Eakin scenario that I noted yesterday is a no go, I could see moving Hendricks to the 3rd line and bringing back Bradley at 800K for the 4th line with BGord and Beagle. Either way that'll be about 1 mil off the books via Chimera with the remaining 800 K going towards Bradley.

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03-21-2011, 11:30 AM
  #104
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Ottawa prospect Jared Cowen would be the ideal replacement for Schultz. Similar in size to Schultz and has the long reach like Schultz, even had a bout with mono to delay his development like Schultz. The difference is that the 6'5" Cowen plays with grit and is deemed a physical shut down defenseman that clears the crease.
And he'd be nearly impossible to get in a trade. He's their top prospect.

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03-21-2011, 11:38 AM
  #105
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And he'd be nearly impossible to get in a trade. He's their top prospect.
Thanks Moriarity!


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03-21-2011, 12:20 PM
  #106
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what about Orlov or some other prospect? or perhaps some other decent and cheap #6 from some other team's roster? what about TFSloan? you see there are alot of options

as for Green - this team is wining without him and his bone-headed plays when it matters most is what has turned me off to him being a "lifer" in DC. yes he has a unique skillset and yes he is a premiere offensive D-man. and yes he has sucked in the playoffs and yes has been targeted and wilted under that pressure in the playoffs.

thats not what this team needs going forward. i dont doubt that Mike Green can alter his game to be more steady, but then his uniqueness diminishes and he becomes overpaid by some margin. more Hannan less Green.

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03-21-2011, 12:29 PM
  #107
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I'm glad to see that people seem to have an open mind as far as Green's future with the Caps -- this wasn't the case for a long time.

If Green ends up getting moved, I think everybody would expect him to be the best player in the deal. Is it critical that the Caps get another team to part with a great player? I don't think so, because if MJ continues to progress, I don't see any big holes that have to be addressed if you're gonna give up your best asset. So the Caps can just go for the biggest package out there. You can't always expect to draft Kuznetsov's, so high picks would seem to go along with management's strategy of building a team to last a decade.

But that's just my opinion. The safe assumption is probably that the Caps would look for impact players in trading Green.. but to me it's not a critical issue.

In any case, I'm sure the Caps will give Green every chance. Both McPhee and Boudreau seem to be very high on him, so things would probably have to go very wrong for them to consider trading him.. at which point the trade value wouldn't be that great.

I'm ok with any outcome, as long as they don't hand him a long term 6m contract that he can't live up to.

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03-21-2011, 01:08 PM
  #108
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I can't see Hannan and Arnott feeling like they need to take 33% pay cuts coming off a cup. And coming off a cup I also feel Knuble and Laich will want more than what you have allotted. Also Wideman's cap hit is $3.937.5 and Chimera's $1.875, not big differences to what you have but still.

The only realistic scenario with Poti IMO that helps with the cap is that he is on LTIR for the rest of his career. But that only allows them to exceed the cap, it doesn't gain them any cap space, so that would mean they are up against the cap for 2 more years.
We can agree to disagree here, but I think it's damn near a certainty that Arnott and Hannan are headed for pay cuts. Neither produces anywhere close to their contract at this point in their careers. While I do agree that playing for a cup winner can inflate the price tag, I think both guys will be cognizant of the fact that they would be taking pay cuts a heck of a lot bigger than 33% if they hadn't found their way onto our team, who had the cast of star players around them to make a couple of old vets look pretty darn good. Hannan was down to 3rd pairing minutes on an awful team. Arnott was on pace for a 32 point season before his trade. To get $3m per for that, and the chance to defend a Stanley Cup, is a pretty fair offer IMO. Perhaps slightly less than they would get on the open market, but not a ton.

Knuble is at the end of his career and his production has dipped. I think $2m per on a 2 year deal is more attractive to a guy like that than a 1 year deal at $2.5 or $2.8 on another team. And Laich is the only guy I really see taking a true hometown discount, out of his loyalty to this organization.

But, in any event, it still doesn't make sense to trade Green. Up the salaries to whatever you like, keep Poti, dish Chimera, and you can accomodate that increase by trading Wideman, who is basically Green-lite. How about this:

Ovie (9.538)- Backstrom (6.7) - Knuble (2.8)
Laich (4.0) - Arnott (3.75) - Semin (6.7)
A. Gordon (.675) - Johansson (.90) - Fehr (2.2)
Beagle (.512) - Gordo (.9) - Hendricks (.825)
King (.637)

Carlson (.846) - Alzner (2.25)
Hannan (3.5) - Green (5.25)
Schultz (2.75) - Poti (2.875)
Erskine (1.5)


Neuvirth (1.15)
Varly (1.25)

TOTAL: $61.5m
Likely 2011-2012 Cap: $61.5-$63m

That's the "Cup lineup" with only two changes, one of which is a clear upgrade, and both of which are easily absorbed. And we would get a couple of picks in return for Wideman and Chimera.

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03-21-2011, 01:08 PM
  #109
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Provided he's okay, I wouldn't trade Green unless we got a ton back. I never liked Poti and i'm not too wild about Schultz either. I hope one, or really both, leave and Hannan stays.

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03-21-2011, 01:12 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I'm glad to see that people seem to have an open mind as far as Green's future with the Caps -- this wasn't the case for a long time.

If Green ends up getting moved, I think everybody would expect him to be the best player in the deal. Is it critical that the Caps get another team to part with a great player? I don't think so, because if MJ continues to progress, I don't see any big holes that have to be addressed if you're gonna give up your best asset. So the Caps can just go for the biggest package out there. You can't always expect to draft Kuznetsov's, so high picks would seem to go along with management's strategy of building a team to last a decade.

But that's just my opinion. The safe assumption is probably that the Caps would look for impact players in trading Green.. but to me it's not a critical issue.
The team is not going to just dump Green. That's a certainty. So the issue becomes identifying what it is they want and finding someone willing to give it. I suspect that, if GMGM were going to deal Green, he might be ok doing a deal in which it's Green for a package of stuff, as opposed to star-for-star. IMO, the package would need to include a 2nd line-caliber forward with a proven track record on an affordable contract with term. Preferably a RW would could be penciled in for years to come with Ovie and Nick, though I'm open to whatever. Maybe Ryane Clowe. Maybe Matt Moulson (though his recent play may have made him untouchable). Maybe Dustin Brown, if the Kings ever stop over-valuing him. Or even Stephen Weiss, if we want a center. Then add a pick or prospect or whatever to equal the value.

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03-21-2011, 01:15 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
And he'd be nearly impossible to get in a trade. He's their top prospect.
Rundbladsayshai.

Dear lord, I hope Chimera goes this summer. Ridiculous that he has an A.

As to the OP, the Caps would need roster contributors. A power forward/all-situations defenseman being ideal centerpieces.


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03-21-2011, 01:18 PM
  #112
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Assuming 65 gp next season, Green is likely looking at a $7.5 pay day. That should factor in this discussion.

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03-21-2011, 01:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
I can't imagine Green getting moved for anything less than an all star level player coming back.
Devils desperately need a puck mover.

Mike Green for Zach Parise

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03-21-2011, 02:00 PM
  #114
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Devils desperately need a puck mover.

Mike Green for Zach Parise
i'd be willing to throw in a decent prospect to make that deal happen

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03-21-2011, 02:15 PM
  #115
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I just can't see the caps moving Green this off-season. I don't mind discussions of potentially moving him as with the cap situation moving forward there will be a good player or two that the caps likely will have to move or not resign.

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03-21-2011, 02:28 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Rundbladsayshai.

Dear lord, I hope Chimera goes this summer. Ridiculous that he has an A.

As to the OP, the Caps would need roster contributors. A power forward/all-situations defenseman being ideal centerpieces.
Cowen was drafted higher than Rundblad, so he's better.

But seriously, he is a more hyped prospect, if nothing else. I knew Rundblad would be brought up but especially given the mix of dmen in Ottawa right now I have to believe Cowen would be harder to acquire. Not that either would be easy...

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03-21-2011, 02:47 PM
  #117
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Funny how OV has made me completely forget about Lindros. Lindros was to take the game to a new level -- basically a kid with the body and strength of an NFL Defensive Lineman who also had tremendous skill and hockey smarts as well. But he didnt nearly have the energy, heart, drive and determination that Ovechkin has, and hence his career turned out to be well below everyone's expectations.

LOL

wut?

he was a beast, and carried the flyers on his back the minute he got there. what derailed his career was nothing you listed.

back on topic - no way green nets a return like he did. only way i see that ever happening is if a certain GM, currently out of the league, gets another shot....

i'm for trading green, for the right deal at the right time. it'll simply come down to $ and the progression of carlson/alzner and that russian who recently came over now with the bears.

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03-21-2011, 02:49 PM
  #118
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Funny how OV has made me completely forget about Lindros. Lindros was to take the game to a new level -- basically a kid with the body and strength of an NFL Defensive Lineman who also had tremendous skill and hockey smarts as well. But he didnt nearly have the energy, heart, drive and determination that Ovechkin has, and hence his career turned out to be well below everyone's expectations.
More to do with a series of concussions than heart, imo.

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I think he was referring to THIS Lindros trade...

Flyers GM Bobby Clarke eventually traded Lindros to the New York Rangers on August 20, 2001 for Jan Hlaváč, Kim Johnsson, Pavel Brendl, and a 2003 3rd-round draft choice (Štefan Ružička).

Or at least...I hope...
LOL, I hope you're right. Didn't even cross my mind, as when anyone says Lindros trade I just assume the other one.

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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Assuming 65 gp next season, Green is likely looking at a $7.5 pay day. That should factor in this discussion.
He's not getting more than $6.7M from the Capitals. If someone else wants to give him that offer sheet, go ahead. That's four 1st round picks.

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03-21-2011, 03:01 PM
  #119
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He's not getting more than $6.7M from the Capitals. If someone else wants to give him that offer sheet, go ahead. That's four 1st round picks.
Happen to recall the last time the Caps took 4+ first round picks for an offer-sheeted defenseman?

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03-21-2011, 03:10 PM
  #120
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No chance I trade Green without giving him an extended run with a competent defensive partner.

Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Wideman-Poti/Erskine/Schultz

There's no reason that shouldn't be the defensive lineup for the playoffs.

If Green still can't perform (caveat: he's fully healthy and has had a run of games to get in shape), then maybe you explore trading him. In my mind, you have to get a mobile, puck-moving defenseman back, plus whatever assets make the trade worth it from a Caps perspective.

Frankly, there's still very little chance in that scenario that I'd trade him. I've used this stat to death, but I'll use it a again: there are 2 defensemen in the NHL that have had 70-point seasons. Green's had 2, and the other guy has his name on the Norris 6 times. If his salary becomes problematic, move two of Wideman/Poti/Schultz, and replace them with sub-$1M players. There's several competent sub-$1M defensemen on the free agent market every summer.

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03-21-2011, 03:15 PM
  #121
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No chance I trade Green without giving him an extended run with a competent defensive partner.

Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Wideman-Poti/Erskine/Schultz

There's no reason that shouldn't be the defensive lineup for the playoffs.

If Green still can't perform (caveat: he's fully healthy and has had a run of games to get in shape), then maybe you explore trading him. In my mind, you have to get a mobile, puck-moving defenseman back, plus whatever assets make the trade worth it from a Caps perspective.

Frankly, there's still very little chance in that scenario that I'd trade him. I've used this stat to death, but I'll use it a again: there are 2 defensemen in the NHL that have had 70-point seasons. Green's had 2, and the other guy has his name on the Norris 6 times. If his salary becomes problematic, move two of Wideman/Poti/Schultz, and replace them with sub-$1M players. There's several competent sub-$1M defensemen on the free agent market every summer.
Understandably. However, even when Green was healthy he was continually paired with Schultz, who many including myself, don't consider as a competent partner for Green.

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03-21-2011, 03:20 PM
  #122
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Understandably. However, even when Green was healthy he was continually paired with Schultz, who many including myself, don't consider as a competent partner for Green.
His best stretch of the year came when he was paired with Hannan for a few games. Then Schultz got healthy. Ugh.

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03-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #123
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Happen to recall the last time the Caps took 4+ first round picks for an offer-sheeted defenseman?
Occurred during my time. Watching Friday's game, seemed to recall seeing that fella's jersey hanging from the rafters of the Prudential Center.

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03-21-2011, 03:53 PM
  #124
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Occurred during my time. Watching Friday's game, seemed to recall seeing that fella's jersey hanging from the rafters of the Prudential Center.
His jersey is indeed hanging from said rafters. Though I wasn't aware the Caps played in the 19th century.

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03-21-2011, 03:54 PM
  #125
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No way I trade Green for bustable draft picks. Proven NHLers only, and only if our cap forces us to do so. I would still love to see Alzner Green get time together before we trade him. I have already given up hoping for a Hannan Green sighting. For all the shuffling BB does up top, he does very little downstairs. There is probably some merit to it, but I would use the RS to explore a few other pairings NOW should the need arise next month.

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