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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
03-21-2011, 02:58 PM
  #126
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To be fair, you can trace Varlamov and Schultz back to letting him walk.


Granted that's like having a pack of gum 5 20 years after giving away the Ziggy Pig, but still.

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03-21-2011, 03:24 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I'm glad to see that people seem to have an open mind as far as Green's future with the Caps -- this wasn't the case for a long time.
If Green ends up getting moved, I think everybody would expect him to be the best player in the deal. Is it critical that the Caps get another team to part with a great player? I don't think so, because if MJ continues to progress, I don't see any big holes that have to be addressed if you're gonna give up your best asset. So the Caps can just go for the biggest package out there. You can't always expect to draft Kuznetsov's, so high picks would seem to go along with management's strategy of building a team to last a decade.

But that's just my opinion. The safe assumption is probably that the Caps would look for impact players in trading Green.. but to me it's not a critical issue.

In any case, I'm sure the Caps will give Green every chance. Both McPhee and Boudreau seem to be very high on him, so things would probably have to go very wrong for them to consider trading him.. at which point the trade value wouldn't be that great.

I'm ok with any outcome, as long as they don't hand him a long term 6m contract that he can't live up to.
I think that wasn't the case for a long time, because up until recently this defense needed him. Prior to Carlson joining the team, the second best puckmover the team had was Poti. Green was the engine that made things go from the backend. Now that Carlson has started to establish himself and Wideman has filled in pretty well, I think people might be softening their stance.

Until Hannan and Wideman arrived, Tyler Sloan and Brian Fahey were getting jerseys. Trading Green, even if you were getting a downgraded defenseman in return, would have wrecked havoc on the blueline. Plus, if people thought the power play was struggling before, who knows what it would have looked like sans Green.

I can't remember where I read it, but someone broke down all the trades that involved really good players for packages of lesser parts. It might have been in THN. Anyways, all of them failed spectacularly for the team trading the big name. I don't know if the Devils would be willing to do a trade with Green and Parise as the building blocks, but I hope that would be the type of trade they go after if they do end up dealing him.

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Old
03-21-2011, 03:38 PM
  #128
Robert Theodorson
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I'm in the minority that thinks Green needs to GTFO if he has an epic fail once more this postseason.

Green for Grabner and Hamonic sounds fair

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Old
03-21-2011, 03:40 PM
  #129
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He's not getting more than $6.7M from the Capitals. If someone else wants to give him that offer sheet, go ahead. That's four 1st round picks.
I assume you're using Backstrom as the upper limit? Which makes some sense, except that I'd argue that a 30 goal dman is rarer than a 100pt forward, and he should expect to be treated as such.

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03-21-2011, 04:06 PM
  #130
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He hasn't hit 20 goals in any of his other seasons. Even that 31-goal season came in an abnormally high scoring season for defensemen.

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03-21-2011, 04:15 PM
  #131
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He hasn't hit 20 goals in any of his other seasons. Even that 31-goal season came in an abnormally high scoring season for defensemen.
Believe me. I have no interest in giving him big money. But facts is facts. He's a ppg dman who is improving defensively and has hit 30 goals. And you can talk about how easy it was to score in 2008, but Green is the only guy who did it.

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03-21-2011, 04:49 PM
  #132
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I assume you're using Backstrom as the upper limit? Which makes some sense, except that I'd argue that a 30 goal dman is rarer than a 100pt forward, and he should expect to be treated as such.
certainly a rarer commodity. but which player helps you more in the postseason? the flashy offensive D-man or the talented 2 way center...? Sandis Ozolinsh or Rod Brind'Amour? of course those are not exact comparables to Green or Backstrom. so lets be reality.

thus far Green, despite his amazing regular season #s, has been a playoff goat... to me that is what it comes down to: does this guy help us win when it matters most.

so far that is a vehement nyet and it means that his contract $$$ can be spread around to less rare players that help you win when it matters most.

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03-21-2011, 05:11 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Believe me. I have no interest in giving him big money. But facts is facts. He's a ppg dman who is improving defensively and has hit 30 goals. And you can talk about how easy it was to score in 2008, but Green is the only guy who did it.
question: do you hope the caps move him and are you using his salary potential as a reason to do it?

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Old
03-21-2011, 05:12 PM
  #134
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Sorry but all this talk about possibly moving Mike Green to me is absurd. Are we all that impressed with Wideman after 3 weeks. I've liked what I've seen from Wideman, but not to the point that I think we can afford to now move forward without Mike Green. Green's defensive game was surely improving this year and when paired with Hannan seemed to play better. I compare Hannan's influence on Green's game to how Willie Mitchell improved Kevin Bieska's game. I believe Green is still developing as a defenseman and their's aspects of his game we've yet to see. Whereas Jeff Schultz imho has topped out and this is what we'll forever see from him, thus Jeff Schultz is the guy that needs to be moved come the off season.

The "what have you done for us lately" crowd needs to settle down on both Green and Poti. Injuries are part of the game. Let's remember that Poti was our best defenseman in the series against Montreal last year until he got the puck in the face in game 6. I'd take Poti over Schultz any day. Poti with his long stick probably has just as much reach as Schultz does with his stick.

Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Poti/Erskine-Wideman

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Old
03-21-2011, 05:21 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Roccoman View Post
certainly a rarer commodity. but which player helps you more in the postseason? the flashy offensive D-man or the talented 2 way center...? Sandis Ozolinsh or Rod Brind'Amour? of course those are not exact comparables to Green or Backstrom. so lets be reality.

thus far Green, despite his amazing regular season #s, has been a playoff goat... to me that is what it comes down to: does this guy help us win when it matters most.

so far that is a vehement nyet and it means that his contract $$$ can be spread around to less rare players that help you win when it matters most.
comparing green to ozolinsh is a stinging slap in the face. whats next? dick tarnstrom?

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03-21-2011, 05:28 PM
  #136
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one more good rodeo for boudreau, green and semin. if the caps dont win and those players dont cowboy up, they will get run out of town. its a fact. i wonder what would happen if the caps lost in the second round and semin and green were the best players in the playoffs?

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03-21-2011, 05:41 PM
  #137
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If Green is traded our top 4 would be:

Alzner-Carlson
Hannan/Schultz-Wideman

Would people here be fine with that?

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03-21-2011, 05:42 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
comparing green to ozolinsh is a stinging slap in the face. whats next? dick tarnstrom?
Stinging slap in the face to Ozolinsh, because even he has done something in the playoffs? In the mid-to-late 90s he was considered an elite puck-moving offensive defenseman on a high-powered offensive team, much like one-man-breakout currently is.

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Old
03-21-2011, 08:05 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
If Green is traded our top 4 would be:

Alzner-Carlson
Hannan/Schultz-Wideman

Would people here be fine with that?
Schultz in not top 4 material!

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Old
03-21-2011, 08:19 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
If Green is traded our top 4 would be:

Alzner-Carlson
Hannan/Schultz-Wideman

Would people here be fine with that?
Yes?

Those are the pairings that have the Caps 3rd overall in GAA and two of those defensemen will combine for 80+ pts.

I'd rather Green figure it out, we keep him, and move Poti or Schultz.

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Old
03-21-2011, 09:35 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I think that wasn't the case for a long time, because up until recently this defense needed him. Prior to Carlson joining the team, the second best puckmover the team had was Poti. Green was the engine that made things go from the backend. Now that Carlson has started to establish himself and Wideman has filled in pretty well, I think people might be softening their stance.

Until Hannan and Wideman arrived, Tyler Sloan and Brian Fahey were getting jerseys. Trading Green, even if you were getting a downgraded defenseman in return, would have wrecked havoc on the blueline. Plus, if people thought the power play was struggling before, who knows what it would have looked like sans Green.

I can't remember where I read it, but someone broke down all the trades that involved really good players for packages of lesser parts. It might have been in THN. Anyways, all of them failed spectacularly for the team trading the big name. I don't know if the Devils would be willing to do a trade with Green and Parise as the building blocks, but I hope that would be the type of trade they go after if they do end up dealing him.
Well, ultimately Green's calling card is his offense. If that dries up, for whatever reason, I think it just becomes hard to justify paying him all that dough.

I think nobody would expect equal compensation for Green in terms of talent level. But the whole point of trading Green to me would be less about the return and more about not wanting to get stuck with a Campbell-like contract. Good player on a bad contract, that sort of thing.

Of course, if you're fairly confident that Green's going to put it all together and be effective in games when there's little open ice, then you wouldn't want to part with him unless you get a tremendous player back, if at all.

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Old
03-21-2011, 11:19 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Well, ultimately Green's calling card is his offense. If that dries up, for whatever reason, I think it just becomes hard to justify paying him all that dough.

I think nobody would expect equal compensation for Green in terms of talent level. But the whole point of trading Green to me would be less about the return and more about not wanting to get stuck with a Campbell-like contract. Good player on a bad contract, that sort of thing.

Of course, if you're fairly confident that Green's going to put it all together and be effective in games when there's little open ice, then you wouldn't want to part with him unless you get a tremendous player back, if at all.
I agree that if his offense starts fall off, his price should go down accordingly. That said, puck movers like Green are in very high demand. Is it worth it to overpay him a little if it means not having to sell him for lesser parts? I guess it depends on what sort of number he is looking to get. Bouwmeester checks in at a cap hit of $6.68M. Phaneuf's hit is $6.5M. Anywhere north of there and I'd look to move him I guess.

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Old
03-21-2011, 11:47 PM
  #143
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comparing green to ozolinsh is a stinging slap in the face. whats next? dick tarnstrom?
one great offensive defenseman to another - yes they are comparable.

Green's #'s are really not that bad postseason - 19 points in 28 games. those calling him a PPG player are a bit delusional though - 366 games and 244 points... impressive #s but not PPG... exactly 0.66~

as Artilector said: if his points dry up then his "rarity" is gone as well... more Hannan, less Green, especially if Bruce Almighty has committed this team to win games thru his defensive play, not the run-n-gun from previous years.

in fact Artilector's post pretty well sums it up.

+1 dude.

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Old
03-22-2011, 10:42 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
comparing green to ozolinsh is a stinging slap in the face. whats next? dick tarnstrom?

not so fast....ozolinsh was a Norris finalist, played in multiple all-star games, and I believe was even made an all-star team

Green has been compared to Leetch in the past, that is turning out to be more a stretch than ozolinsh, who I think is a decent analogy

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03-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #145
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Ozolinsh won a cup so I wouldn't mind Green emulating him that way...

Seriously though you guys act like Ozolinsh was some bum or something. The guy played over 1000 NHL games, won a cup, and was a playoff performer. Sure he wasn't a great defensive player but it takes all types to make a great hockey team and he was a very important part of the powerhouse Avs teams of the late 90's.

By the sound of things you'd think he was a guy so many would 'whoop' out of town...

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03-22-2011, 11:11 AM
  #146
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maybe i am not remembering correctly, but i recall ozo being something of a punchline beyond the power play. king of like green is now around here.

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03-22-2011, 12:07 PM
  #147
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Happen to recall the last time the Caps took 4+ first round picks for an offer-sheeted defenseman?
Yup. We got Gonchar and Witt out of it. I'm not pretending that they add up to a HHoF defenseman, but its the salary cap era now. You can only afford so many superstars on your team, and our guys aren't on their ELCs anymore. If someone wants to throw that kind of money at Green via an offer sheet, it's probably the best use of assets (including cap space) to let him take it.

In no way, shape, or form do I want Green off of this team. He's one of my favorite players, and I certainly see the value he brings to the table. But I realize we have some touch choices coming up in the next few off-seasons regarding which members of our core we keep. And if we can get four 1st round picks in exchange for one of them, that sounds like an awfully good idea to me.

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03-22-2011, 12:13 PM
  #148
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i can recall clearly one commentator stating "he's dangerous at both ends of the ice"... it was said a bit tongue-in-cheek but it just goes to show the overall reputation he had, rightly or wrongly.

just looking over his career stats he was a career -44 and had an impressive .64 points per game average... eerily similar to Green's .66~

Green already has a perception of being awful in his end around here (i mean on HF boards in general) and despite playing great defensive hockey at times over the last 2 years he still has it... those kinda things are not easy to shake off - i'm sure Ozo found that out as well.

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Old
03-22-2011, 12:16 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
maybe i am not remembering correctly, but i recall ozo being something of a punchline beyond the power play. king of like green is now around here.
what does "around here" have to do with reality?

Ozolinsh was an offensively gifted player who jumped into the play a lot and wasnt very good defensively. That sounds a lot like Mike Green....who, is a below average defensive player who has top notch puck skills

Its likely (due to the Tarnstrom comment) that you arent remembering him clearly

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03-22-2011, 12:20 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
If Green is traded our top 4 would be:

Alzner-Carlson
Hannan/Schultz-Wideman

Would people here be fine with that?
I would, but you're leaving out a potential D coming back from any Green trade.

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