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Old
03-21-2011, 03:48 PM
  #26
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03-21-2011, 04:37 PM
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03-21-2011, 05:19 PM
  #28
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When Giroux was in junior he played for Gatineau which is just across the river from Orleans where I live. What he did that year leading them to the Memorial Cup was......unbelievable. The kid is built for postseason success. I think he will develop into one of the league known clutch performers, we can see it at the pro level already.

Should be fun to watch for the next 10-15 years
I agree. However some people believe he is at his scoring prime now and it is all down hill from here.

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03-21-2011, 07:19 PM
  #29
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I agree. However some people believe he is at his scoring prime now and it is all down hill from here.
Oh no..I remember that thread as well...

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03-22-2011, 12:59 AM
  #30
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I agree. However some people believe he is at his scoring prime now and it is all down hill from here.
And then some people bring up players as examples of late primes who had their best season when they were 26... or think Paul Holmgren runs a company. Of course, it appears that you still are too dense to understand the point that was being made: to suggest that Giroux is "young" for scoring in the NHL, is complete and utter BS.

Fun fact: not since Pavel Bure has anyone over the age of 26 led the league in goals.


Last edited by Jester: 03-22-2011 at 01:06 AM.
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03-22-2011, 02:38 AM
  #31
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Bingo! We have a winner. Time 7:40
Trivia question: Bure hit for 60. But who at the ripe old age of 30 hit for 57 the same year from a wheelchair?


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03-22-2011, 03:20 AM
  #32
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Trivia question: Bure hit for 60. But who at the ripe old age of 30 hit for 57 the same year from a wheelchair?
Vladimir Konstantinov?


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03-22-2011, 07:48 AM
  #33
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but he doesn't play, he is lazy and coasts
My only real concern with Cartsie at this time is that when the games get more physical and tighter checking he does not have the space to be productive. That being said his play in front of the net is encouraging, let Giroux and Nodl bang in the corners and have Carter hang around the net.

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03-22-2011, 08:51 AM
  #34
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BTW Jeff Carter has the most points vs the Caps this year on the team.


He only shows up versus bad teams right?

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03-22-2011, 08:52 AM
  #35
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Bingo! We have a winner. Time 7:40
Trivia question: Bure hit for 60. But who at the ripe old age of 30 hit for 57 the same year from a wheelchair?
A decade ago.

At least you remain intellectually dishonest and stubbornly cling to ignorance.

Joe Sakic: best season of his career at age 26, and 4 of his 6 100 pt seasons came at age 26 or younger, btw.

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03-22-2011, 09:31 AM
  #36
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BTW Jeff Carter has the most points vs the Caps this year on the team.


He only shows up versus bad teams right?
Give the kid some flowers for his effort, he also pads his stats but that is neither here nor there. Win when it counts, and he removes the Joe Thornton tag.

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03-22-2011, 10:01 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Give the kid some flowers for his effort, he also pads his stats but that is neither here nor there. Win when it counts, and he removes the Joe Thornton tag.
Pads his stats? This team is barely scoring 3 goals a game! How do you come up with this stuff?

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Old
03-22-2011, 10:14 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And then some people bring up players as examples of late primes who had their best season when they were 26... or think Paul Holmgren runs a company. Of course, it appears that you still are too dense to understand the point that was being made: to suggest that Giroux is "young" for scoring in the NHL, is complete and utter BS.

Fun fact: not since Pavel Bure has anyone over the age of 26 led the league in goals.
What are you saying here? That players peek before 26? Please tell me you are not that stubborn to argue that. Best players in the league today are Sedin, Sedin, St. Louis, Iginla, Brad Richards, Selanne, Nash and a bunch of guys taken in the draft of 03. Henrik would be a good comparable to Giroux and so would St. Louis. Go check your stats and let me know when their careers started to go downhill.

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03-22-2011, 10:20 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
What are you saying here? That players peek before 26? Please tell me you are not that stubborn to argue that. Best players in the league today are Sedin, Sedin, St. Louis, Iginla, Brad Richards, Selanne, Nash and a bunch of guys taken in the draft of 03. Henrik would be a good comparable to Giroux and so would St. Louis. Go check your stats and let me know when their careers started to go downhill.
Only 10 players in the history of the Art Ross Trophy have won it after the age of 30. Only 15 times has a player over 30 won the Art Ross (out of 92). Only two players in recent memory have led the league in scoring over the age of 30: Lemieux, and Gretzky... the most recent before then? Phil Esposito in 1974.

Sedin is the 17th OLDEST player to win the Art Ross.

The average age of Art Ross Trophy winners in the history of the league? Just over 24.

BTW, it's absolutely fascinating that you just rattled off the "best players in the league today" and didn't mention Crosby, Ovechkin, and Stamkos.

So, go check your stats as all you just did is prove that you don't know the stats.

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03-22-2011, 10:21 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Give the kid some flowers for his effort, he also pads his stats but that is neither here nor there. Win when it counts, and he removes the Joe Thornton tag.
He doesn't have that tag at all. He did nothing his rookie year, he did well his third year, nothing his fourth against the Penguins, did well last year (7 points in 12 games on 2 busted up ankles). He did very well in the Phantoms run to a championship, was a huge part of two World Junior Championship golds. I don't think Carter is going to be a Thornton playoff bust and it is too early to think that.

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03-22-2011, 10:33 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Only 10 players in the history of the Art Ross Trophy have won it after the age of 30. Only 15 times has a player over 30 won the Art Ross (out of 92). Only two players in recent memory have led the league in scoring over the age of 30: Lemieux, and Gretzky... the most recent before then? Phil Esposito in 1974.

Sedin is the 17th OLDEST player to win the Art Ross.

The average age of Art Ross Trophy winners in the history of the league? Just over 24.

BTW, it's absolutely fascinating that you just rattled off the "best players in the league today" and didn't mention Crosby, Ovechkin, and Stamkos.

So, go check your stats as all you just did is prove that you don't know the stats.
I can't argue the Ricky Bobby Logic you got going here. If your not first your last - WTF! There are HUNDREDS of examples of guys who improved well into their late 20's and into their 30's. Just look at the top scorers in the league. Giroux is 14th is league scoring in his third year. He is on pace for close to 75 points. There is no reason to think he doesn't have 90 point potential in the next few years. I got to go find this argument in the other thread.

I compared him to Henrik,

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03-22-2011, 10:34 AM
  #42
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Pads his stats? This team is barely scoring 3 goals a game! How do you come up with this stuff?
Relax Francis.

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Old
03-22-2011, 10:38 AM
  #43
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I can't argue the Ricky Bobby Logic you got going here. If your not first your last - WTF! There are HUNDREDS of examples of guys who improved well into their late 20's and into their 30's. Just look at the top scorers in the league. Giroux is 14th is league scoring in his third year. He is on pace for close to 75 points. There is no reason to think he doesn't have 90 point potential in the next few years. I got to go find this argument in the other thread.

I compared him to Henrik,
Wow, you think citing empirical information is "Ricky Bobby Logic?" Seriously? School must have been really hard for you.

There aren't as many players as you seem to think that display growth after their early-mid 20s. In fact, it's usually the other side of the coin: players begin a decline after their mid 20s. Doesn't mean they do not remain very good players, but their best offensive years are usually behind them by their late 20s. This is one of the primary reasons why it is so fundamentally important to draft well and have a good system... you need those good players under the age of 25-26 on your roster.

Offensive production peaks much earlier than people thing... Giroux isn't "young" by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to putting up points in this league. It's quite likely that Mike Richards has enjoyed the best consecutive years of his career already... so on, and so forth.

Sedin, Sedin, St. Louis: definite outliers to the general trend in the NHL. However, there's the caveat that the Sedins were coming from Europe, and St Louis struggled to get an opportunity early in his career.

Iginla: best goal scoring year came when he was 24, had two good years at 29/30.

Brad Richards: posted 91 points when he was 25, and matched that last year.

Selanne: Clearly achieved his high water mark very early in his career...

Nash: He's only 26 right now... posted 41 goals when he was 19, and posted PPG pace at 21 and 24.


Last edited by Jester: 03-22-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
03-22-2011, 10:41 AM
  #44
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He doesn't have that tag at all. He did nothing his rookie year, he did well his third year, nothing his fourth against the Penguins, did well last year (7 points in 12 games on 2 busted up ankles). He did very well in the Phantoms run to a championship, was a huge part of two World Junior Championship golds. I don't think Carter is going to be a Thornton playoff bust and it is too early to think that.
Stop with the busted ankle and played through injury, he has not shown up in the playoffs, this is his time to prove he can play in that type of atmosphere:

41 games, 12 goals, 7 assists, 19pts, and a -11. Not exactly the most impressive stats. At this level it is not about how you can outplay the other players with your skills, it is about who wants it more, who has the heart to take their game to the next level.

And of course this, if he only had a one-time shot or get it up high there might have been a game 7!!!!



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03-22-2011, 10:43 AM
  #45
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Only 10 players in the history of the Art Ross Trophy have won it after the age of 30. Only 15 times has a player over 30 won the Art Ross (out of 92). Only two players in recent memory have led the league in scoring over the age of 30: Lemieux, and Gretzky... the most recent before then? Phil Esposito in 1974.

Sedin is the 17th OLDEST player to win the Art Ross.

The average age of Art Ross Trophy winners in the history of the league? Just over 24.

BTW, it's absolutely fascinating that you just rattled off the "best players in the league today" and didn't mention Crosby, Ovechkin, and Stamkos.

So, go check your stats as all you just did is prove that you don't know the stats.
I question your numbers. Sedin this year at 31. Sedin last year at 30. St. Louis won it in 2003-2004. Forsberg won it in 2002-2003. Jagr won it 5 of 7 years and was around 30 when he won it last ???? Lemieux and Gretsky won it the previous 15 years. WTF?

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03-22-2011, 10:54 AM
  #46
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I question your numbers. Sedin this year at 31. Sedin last year at 30. St. Louis won it in 2003-2004. Forsberg won it in 2002-2003. Jagr won it 5 of 7 years and was around 30 when he won it last ???? Lemieux and Gretsky won it the previous 15 years. WTF?
Wayne Gretzky won the Art Ross 7 times prior to the age of 27. 3 times after that.

Average for Gretzky: 20+21+22+23+24+25+26+29+30+33 = 253/20 = 25.3 years old.

Average for Jagr: 22+25+26+27+28 = 25.6 years old.

Average for Lemieux: 22+23+26+27+30+31 = 26.5 years old.

Average for the winners breaking that up: 29+22+22+19+26+28+29+24 = 24.875

EDIT: And Sedin turned 30 last September, he was 29 last year... and if Crosby had not got hurt this year, he was on pace to lap the field.

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03-22-2011, 10:54 AM
  #47
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Wow, you think citing empirical information is "Ricky Bobby Logic?" Seriously? School must have been really hard for you.

There aren't as many players as you seem to think that display growth after their early-mid 20s. In fact, it's usually the other side of the coin: players begin a decline after their mid 20s. Doesn't mean they do not remain very good players, but their best offensive years are usually behind them by their late 20s. This is one of the primary reasons why it is so fundamentally important to draft well and have a good system... you need those good players under the age of 25-26 on your roster.

Offensive production peaks much earlier than people thing... Giroux isn't "young" by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to putting up points in this league. It's quite likely that Mike Richards has enjoyed the best consecutive years of his career already... so on, and so forth.
Then stop talking about the Art Ross. It is won by the best player in the league. In this league, that player has been around age 30 for the past 10 years since it was held by Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr for 20 years. Go look at players.

Lets look at Flyers:
Bobby Clarke: Best years age 24-29.
John Leclair: Best years age 26-30
Eric Lindros: Best years age 20-26 (Injurys slowed him down)
Bill Barber: Best years age 24, 26,27, 29, 30,
Brian Propp: Best years age 23-30
Tim Kerr: Best years age 24,26,27,28,30.

I stopped looking after this. I haven't found an example of a Flyer having his best years behind him at 25.

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03-22-2011, 10:59 AM
  #48
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I would love to see a video of Cartsiephan skating with 2 broken feet

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03-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Wayne Gretzky won the Art Ross 7 times prior to the age of 27. 3 times after that.

Average for Gretzky: 20+21+22+23+24+25+26+29+30+33 = 253/20 = 25.3 years old.

Average for Jagr: 22+25+26+27+28 = 25.6 years old.

Average for Lemieux: 22+23+26+27+30+31 = 26.5 years old.

Average for the winners breaking that up: 29+22+22+19+26+28+29+24 = 24.875

EDIT: And Sedin turned 30 last September, he was 29 last year.
Ask Mario Lemieux and Gretzky and Jagr why they didn't keep winning them. Answer=injury slowed them down/the clutch and grab era. You could cross check a guy all day in front of the net, use your stick to waterski with him and hack his ankles without a penalty. All of those guys were slowed due to injury. Mario Lemieux himself was big on having the game changed to allow skilled players to play. And as such, the Sedins, St. Louis, Selanne, B. Richards, Iginla are all having career type years in their 30's. There is no reason to think Crosby/Ovechkin will not win the trophy after age 26.

Look at recent history - you have Stamkos + the 03 draft dominating the league. Those same guys will continue dominating the league the next 10 years.

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03-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #50
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i dont really understand how not winning the art ross trophy after 25 means that your best years are behind you. you dont need to win the art ross to have prolonged success.

both of your arguements are stupid. stop, and talk about jeff carter damn it!

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