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Congrats to Dubi on his first 50 point season!

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:47 PM
  #26
Garfinkel1
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Originally Posted by PavelBure9 View Post
I dont think two players that reach 50+ points while not even in their primes yet are considered thrid line players. They are 2nd line players borderline 1st on a great day. If you think these are 3rd line players, then you should have your head examined
And just to add on to what your saying, They both play great on both sides of the puck, play extremely physical, give it 100% every shift and wear their heart on their sleeve, play through injuries and encompass the corporate culture Torts wants.

this they are really 3rd line players is BS. They were holding their own against top lines all season.

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03-21-2011, 01:49 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I don't know about anyone else but I've been long waiting for this. It's a barometer for me when it comes to a player,the team, and their depth.

This season we have Gaborik who has done it before, Dubinsky, Prospal( who would have gotten 50 points per his pace and did it last season), and Callahan who would've smashed it. That's 4 players.

Next season I see Anisimov cracking 50, and possibly Stepan.

Wolski has 32 points in 65 games. He has also gotten a 50 point season(in COL) and many 45+pt seasons with less than 82 games being played. He too should be in the mix.

For next season....
I think you have a possibility of having 6 players cracking 50+ points
I think you have a good chance of having 5 players with 50+ points next season.
........You have a great chance of seeing 4 players w/ 50+ points
........You have a lock for 3 players having 50+ points
So on and so forth...


If we add Richards to the mix without messing with much of the names above, that obviously changes the equation and bumps up the chances/amount of players.
When's the last time we had a top 6? I mean, a real top 6. The team with straka-nylander-Jagr was only one line and look at Nylander when Jagr disappeared lol

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03-21-2011, 02:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I dont think Richards would center the 3rd line, which is where Cally and Dubi belong. I know they think they are top 6 F's and wish to be paid as such, but they aren't so I hope we keep them for the money they are making.
46 pts in 53 games while being a great defensive and checking forward. Yep, sounds like third line material.



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Old
03-21-2011, 02:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
46 pts in 53 games while being a great defensive and checking forward. Yep, sounds like third line material.
Your being sarcastic i hope right?

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03-21-2011, 02:50 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
When's the last time we had a top 6? I mean, a real top 6. The team with straka-nylander-Jagr was only one line and look at Nylander when Jagr disappeared lol
I would say when we had a real top 6 in 06-07
straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanahan

I would clasify that as a real top 6 (not now obviously but back then)

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Old
03-21-2011, 02:52 PM
  #31
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Wolski-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Feds-Boyle-Prust


Show me the money!

The emergence of Dubi and Cally, and even Arty, as second liners helps makes this team fall into place.

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03-21-2011, 03:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PavelBure9 View Post
Your being sarcastic i hope right?
Thought it was obvious

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Old
03-21-2011, 03:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I dont think Richards would center the 3rd line, which is where Cally and Dubi belong. I know they think they are top 6 F's and wish to be paid as such, but they aren't so I hope we keep them for the money they are making.
Either your trollin' or have no clue. Either stop trolling or get a clue.

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Old
03-21-2011, 04:20 PM
  #34
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I'm far from a troll and would love nothing more for these guys to have great success. I think AA is clearly a top 6 F with a ton of upside and skill. Dubinsky does not. I don't believe he's a natural scorer with a nose for the net. He works hard and creates his opportunities that way but I think 60 points is where he tops out and thats only if he plays with other talent. I understand he's had a breakout year and everyone is excited but in my opinion, he's not a 30 goal/70 point guy. He's a 45-60 point 2-way player who can plug in as a top 6 F but is not a natural scorer.


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Old
03-21-2011, 04:25 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I'm far from a troll and would love nothing more for these guys to have great success. I think AA is clearly a top 6 F with a ton of upside and skill. Dubinsky does not. I don't believe he's a natural scorer with a nose for the net. He works hard and creates his opportunities that way but I think 60 points is where he tops out and thats only if he plays with other talent. I understand he's had a breakout year and everyone is excited but in my opinion, he's not a 30 goal/70 point guy. He's a 45-60 point player who can plug in as a top 6 F but is not a natural scorer.
60 point players aren't third liners. 60 point players are second and first liners.

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03-21-2011, 04:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
60 point players aren't third liners. 60 point players are second and first liners.
Great, he tops out at 60 points as a #6F... better? He doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players...

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03-21-2011, 04:45 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I'm far from a troll and would love nothing more for these guys to have great success. I think AA is clearly a top 6 F with a ton of upside and skill. Dubinsky does not. I don't believe he's a natural scorer with a nose for the net. He works hard and creates his opportunities that way but I think 60 points is where he tops out and thats only if he plays with other talent. I understand he's had a breakout year and everyone is excited but in my opinion, he's not a 30 goal/70 point guy. He's a 45-60 point 2-way player who can plug in as a top 6 F but is not a natural scorer.
When is he EVER going to be a third line guy? Like on what roster? When exactly do you expect the Rangers roster to look like a roster where he is going to be a 3rd line player. I can't wait for the day that they are that loaded. They'd win the conference for sure. And be a dead on favorite for the finals. Oh how I yearn for the day that Dubinsky is a 3rd liner.

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03-21-2011, 04:51 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Great, he tops out at 60 points as a #6F... better? He doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players...
On a yearly basis, only an average of 2 players per team have 60 points. So 60 points makes you an average first line forward. Don't believe me? Look it up yourself. No Ranger fan is going to be crying themselves to sleep at night because Dubinsky isn't a 70 point player, who apparently lacks the 10 extra points to make him a game breaker.

I'll take a two way, physical 60 point guy like Dubi over a 70 point Kovalev type player 10 times out of 10.

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03-21-2011, 05:51 PM
  #39
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I hate the HF misconception that points is what dictates the labeling of a first line player.

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Old
03-21-2011, 07:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Great, he tops out at 60 points as a #6F... better?
There are 29 players in the league with 60 points or more currently.

Given the fact that Anaheim has 4, Vancouver, Chicago, Dallas and Philly each have 3, and Tampa has 2... it means only 17 teams out of 32 currently have a 60+ point scorer on their team.

It's amusing to me that you consider that to be 3rd line material somehow. Your other claims may be valid, and it's definitely your right to have that opinion... but this whole 3rd line thing is silly. On an extremely stacked team, maybe... but anyone getting 50+ points with the talent he has is going to be either a 1st/2nd liner (depending on team makeup and injuries, obviously) or a 1st pairing offensive D-man.

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03-21-2011, 10:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dubinsky is awesome and I'm glad people are finally realizing just how good of a player he is. He's so ridiculously good along the boards and facilitates so many goals that way
Ya that is one area that has gotten much better this year, his boards play. It seem every game he has 2 or 3 occassions were he creates a chance or penalty of the boards by his effort to protect the puck.

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Old
03-22-2011, 08:16 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by PavelBure9 View Post
I would say when we had a real top 6 in 06-07
straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Shanahan

I would clasify that as a real top 6 (not now obviously but back then)

That year in the playoffs we went with...

hossa - nylander - jagr
avery - straka - shanahan

The next year we had...

straka - dubi - jagr
avery - gomez - shanahan

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Old
03-22-2011, 08:27 AM
  #43
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Wait, what? Maybe in an uncapped league on an absolutely stacked team. In a capped league on even a good team, those guys are second liners. How many freaking 3rd liners put up 50 points and play in all situations?

You sure you're thinking of the same players?
I'm not sure what your avatar means, but it's amazing.

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03-22-2011, 08:34 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by New England Hockey View Post
I hate the HF misconception that points is what dictates the labeling of a first line player.
More points = the player is producing at a higher level. Why would you put a player producing at a 60 point level on the third line?

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Old
03-22-2011, 08:51 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Wolski-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Feds-Boyle-Prust


Show me the money!

The emergence of Dubi and Cally, and even Arty, as second liners helps makes this team fall into place.

Thats pretty much the line combos I see if we only go after Richards this summer and land him.

Dubi/aa/Cally are a heck of a 2nd line and should only produce more if WW/Richards/Gabby draw the other team top line. Plus not many 2nd lines in the NHL can wear you down physically while defeating you emotionally with offence.

WW/BR/MG - BD/AA/RC could be a real 2 headed monster giving opposing teams different looks each shift.

Wolski is still young and learning the game. When with Col. his best play came on the top line with Stastny, but he was young, inconsistant, and clashed with the coach on style of play. I think he is finally understanding his defencive resposiblity becasue he looks different then he did playing with the Avs, he was more of a floater back then. Plus he has great skill to be the 3rd man in cleaning up the rebounds in the slot.

Then we have our budding 3rd line. There are 2 if's here, if Kreider makes the team and if Stepan avoids the sophmore slump. Stepper is a cerebral player and IMO can get past it, added onto that, him and Kreider had sick chemistry in the world jr's 2 years ago. Then you have MZA who is a absolute catalyst, he is just aways in the right place at the right time to break up a rush and start a counter attack and seems to understand the fundamentals of our forcheck system, two qualities that boad well for a 3rd line that could surprise a few teams next season that are not so deep. Hopefully they can make the adjustments before they see those teams again mid season.

Getting Richards this offseson, to me, has a lot more of an impact on this team then just getting Gabby going.

Sorry to take the Dubi thread off topic.

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Old
03-22-2011, 10:16 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I dont think Richards would center the 3rd line, which is where Cally and Dubi belong. I know they think they are top 6 F's and wish to be paid as such, but they aren't so I hope we keep them for the money they are making.
Do you watch the rangers?

The line of Dubinsky Cally and Anisimov have been our best line most of the year. Although I agree they are not first line players (I think Dubi can be). They are definitely not 3rd liners. They are really good 2nd line players. They play both the PK and the PP. Seriously, you think they are 3rd liners?

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Old
03-22-2011, 11:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I dont think Richards would center the 3rd line, which is where Cally and Dubi belong. I know they think they are top 6 F's and wish to be paid as such, but they aren't so I hope we keep them for the money they are making.
Only a fool would assume Cally+Dubi belong on the third line. Just cause they're good defensively, and finish their checks, doesn't mean they are 3rd liners.

The average 3rd liners don't produce the offensive numbers these guys do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
I'm far from a troll and would love nothing more for these guys to have great success. I think AA is clearly a top 6 F with a ton of upside and skill. Dubinsky does not. I don't believe he's a natural scorer with a nose for the net. He works hard and creates his opportunities that way but I think 60 points is where he tops out and thats only if he plays with other talent. I understand he's had a breakout year and everyone is excited but in my opinion, he's not a 30 goal/70 point guy. He's a 45-60 point 2-way player who can plug in as a top 6 F but is not a natural scorer.
A 45-60 point player is top-6 material; not bottom-6.

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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Great, he tops out at 60 points as a #6F... better? He doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players...
This is true. What Dubinsky does have is a pretty high hockey IQ which compensates a lot of his offensive deficiencies. Same is true with Callahan. Both of these guys are schooled well. Thank Schoeny and Renney for building the foundation to their games. Thank Torts and Sully for expanding their games. Most importantly though, praise these two guys for putting in the effort to become better all-around hockey players.

They haven't improved just one facet of their game over the last half-decade. They've improved everything about their game. Look at Callahan's puck-control over his first two season's. He couldn't carry it for ****. He would gain the zone and lob a 40-foot shot on net.

Two years ago, you can label both of these guys are above-average 3rd liners, but assuming they belong their now is ridiculous. They have both come a long way.

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Old
03-22-2011, 11:15 AM
  #48
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Too much emphasis has been placed on my 3rd line comment. My point is a top 6 F should possess certain offensive traits that Dubi doesnt possess in my opinion. AA and Cally on the other hand do have those instincts in my opinion. So, AA and Cally are 4th and 5th F's. If you want to say Dubi is #6, great. He barely cracks the top 6. I think this season is as good as it gets for Dubi. I love his game but he doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players... unlike the other 5 guys in the top 6.

And the point is, he's going to expect to be paid like a 65 point scorer and I don't think giving it to him makes this team better

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03-22-2011, 11:21 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Too much emphasis has been placed on my 3rd line comment. My point is a top 6 F should possess certain offensive traits that Dubi doesnt possess in my opinion. AA and Cally on the other hand do have those instincts in my opinion. So, AA and Cally are 4th and 5th F's. If you want to say Dubi is #6, great. He barely cracks the top 6. I think this season is as good as it gets for Dubi. I love his game but he doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players... unlike the other 5 guys in the top 6.

And the point is, he's going to expect to be paid like a 65 point scorer and I don't think giving it to him makes this team better
Hes been are best forward this year and i dont care if hes not a top line guy by trade ill take him in my top 6 any day esp with the chemistry of the pack line. Even if that means giving him a nice long term contract. Plus let me ask you how many second liner get 60 points? how many 1st liner get 60 points? How many on this team? For whatever reason point totals are not that high this year for most teams. Getting 60 points and playing both ends, well you cant ask for much more than that, except that they follow this into the playoffs.


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Old
03-22-2011, 11:36 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Too much emphasis has been placed on my 3rd line comment. My point is a top 6 F should possess certain offensive traits that Dubi doesnt possess in my opinion. AA and Cally on the other hand do have those instincts in my opinion. So, AA and Cally are 4th and 5th F's. If you want to say Dubi is #6, great. He barely cracks the top 6. I think this season is as good as it gets for Dubi. I love his game but he doesn't have the skills or the instincts to be an offensive talent that you can rely on the consistently score against the other teams best defensive players... unlike the other 5 guys in the top 6.

And the point is, he's going to expect to be paid like a 65 point scorer and I don't think giving it to him makes this team better
What offensive traits does Dubinsky lack?

He can carry the puck. Solid speed, with a great opening burst. His first 3 strides are as good as anybody on this team, minus a healthy Gaborik. He's one of the few guys on this team that can consistently gain the blue-line on his own.

He can protect the puck down low, using his body and reach to shield the puck away from defenders. I think a lot of that rubbed off Jagr, imo.

In open ice, Dubinsky has pulled numerous highlight-worthy dekes. Inside/Outside moves, which require skill.

He has a good wrist shot. Not great, but good. He has a good noes for the net. He doesn't shy away from driving to the crease.

I'd like to see him improve his passing. Maybe get a little more creative with the puck in certain instances, but everyone in the league has room for improvement.

Assuming Dubinsky is anything less than a above-average 2nd liner is just stupid. If you can't acknowledge his skillset, then you either:

1) Dislike him
2) Dont watch enough of him

Not sure where you fall between, Turcotte. Somewhere in the middle, probably.

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