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Giroux - prime of his career

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:26 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
OMG - You guys thought I was serious? Your post was that Giroux's best year would be from 21-35. I said Sakic 37 Selanne 40 as a joke. Obviously, there is a 99.9999% chance that Girouxs best year will be within your range.

Wow. No more sarcasm for me. I thought the smily face would show I was joking. My bad.
I knew you were joking, but you have still been comparing Giroux to HHOF players in this whole discussion, in the Carter thread too.

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03-23-2011, 03:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I knew you were joking, but you have still been comparing Giroux to HHOF players in this whole discussion, in the Carter thread too.
No I'm not. I am giving examples of guys whose prime years were extended into 29, 30 and later. Patrick Sharp, Brad Richards, Sedin(s) are guys at or near 30 that are still in their prime. That is my only point. And I know, I just gave 4 names.....but if you look at my previous points, you will see plenty of examples in the Carter thread of what I am talking about.

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03-23-2011, 03:44 PM
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I also think Giroux will have a good extended career

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03-23-2011, 04:42 PM
  #29
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With the way Giroux plays i don't see him having a long durable career.

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03-23-2011, 05:08 PM
  #30
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[QUOTE=CptCannon;31856920]Stupid Homer for signing Giroux to the three-year-contract, now that Giroux is past his prime already.




He just turned 23 and people say he is old as far as scoring goes. I believe he is just going to get better and better. Some people believe that he cannot hold a candle next to Mike Richards(who I think is one hell of a leader). Like I have said before. Why can't we just enjoy them both and not put a tag on them. But that will not fly with some here who have some serious issues and are never. I said never, wrong..














I agree. What a shame that his career is over when it just began.


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03-23-2011, 05:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
With the way Giroux plays i don't see him having a long durable career.
I worry about that sometimes. The way he throws his body around reminds me of Forsberg. And while a lot of his issues were just weird, the same wear and tear could apply to an extent.

I'm sort of hoping that eventually Giroux can get a little more time and space based on his reputation, and that'll save him actually having to always throw himself into defensemen the way he does, so that he is given space just because the threat of getting beat is there.

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03-23-2011, 05:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I worry about that sometimes. The way he throws his body around reminds me of Forsberg. And while a lot of his issues were just weird, the same wear and tear could apply to an extent.

I'm sort of hoping that eventually Giroux can get a little more time and space based on his reputation, and that'll save him actually having to always throw himself into defensemen the way he does, so that he is given space just because the threat of getting beat is there.
I'm curious, was Forsberg's foot problem because of his play or because that's how his body is? If they play the same similar game, and Giroux won't have a foot problem, I could see him at least have a 15 year career.

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03-23-2011, 06:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I knew you were joking, but you have still been comparing Giroux to HHOF players in this whole discussion, in the Carter thread too.
I didn't. There's been some real weird **** coming from that direction.

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03-23-2011, 07:26 PM
  #34
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This has to be the most pointless thread ever.

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Old
03-23-2011, 08:05 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Joe Sakic had a great year at 37. Selanne at 40. We need to discuss this further
Selannie scored 76 goals as a 22 year old rookie.
Selanne from 22-29: 8 seasons played, 8 seasons scoring a point per game.
Selanne from 30-40: 10 seasons played, 3 seasons scoring a point per game(Ages 35, 36 and maybe 40).


Sakic scored over 90 points 10 times in his career.
Ages: 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25*, 26, 29, 31, 37.
7 times during the first 8 years of his career, 3 times in the final 12 years of his career.

*This season was the strike shortened season which he was on pace for 110+ points so you cant fault him for this since it wasnt due to injury.


The point of this post is to show that, yes older players can have a good season but not only is it an anomaly but when you choose hall of famers as your example that its not as impressive as it seems. Those guys might have had good seasons at older ages but those werent career years, they were average seasons for a superstar so compared to other scrubs in the league it looks good.

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03-23-2011, 08:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I'm curious, was Forsberg's foot problem because of his play or because that's how his body is? If they play the same similar game, and Giroux won't have a foot problem, I could see him at least have a 15 year career.
Yes, because a foot problem is the only injury problem a guy with his size and style of play could run into.

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This has to be the most pointless thread ever.
This thread disagrees...
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=889886

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03-23-2011, 08:32 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Selannie scored 76 goals as a 22 year old rookie.
Selanne from 22-29: 8 seasons played, 8 seasons scoring a point per game.
Selanne from 30-40: 10 seasons played, 3 seasons scoring a point per game(Ages 35, 36 and maybe 40).


Sakic scored over 90 points 10 times in his career.
Ages: 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25*, 26, 29, 31, 37.
7 times during the first 8 years of his career, 3 times in the final 12 years of his career.

*This season was the strike shortened season which he was on pace for 110+ points so you cant fault him for this since it wasnt due to injury.


The point of this post is to show that, yes older players can have a good season but not only is it an anomaly but when you choose hall of famers as your example that its not as impressive as it seems. Those guys might have had good seasons at older ages but those werent career years, they were average seasons for a superstar so compared to other scrubs in the league it looks good.
I agree with most of your statement. But just take a look at the top ten in scoring this year. Look at the top 20 for that matter. Sure for the most part the mid 20's are prime years. Players 28, 29, 30, and older can still function and have outstanding seasons.My beef is to pigeonhole players like G and say he is old in terms of scoring prowess when he just turned 23. I really believe that this kid will continue to improve and become a bigger factor with this team in the years to come.

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03-23-2011, 09:24 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I agree with most of your statement. But just take a look at the top ten in scoring this year. Look at the top 20 for that matter. Sure for the most part the mid 20's are prime years. Players 28, 29, 30, and older can still function and have outstanding seasons.My beef is to pigeonhole players like G and say he is old in terms of scoring prowess when he just turned 23. I really believe that this kid will continue to improve and become a bigger factor with this team in the years to come.
I didnt say players couldnt have great seasons in their 30's but the people who say that a players prime goes until 32 is just incorrect. The prime of your career is the best years you have, the best chunk of years, not just 1 year here or there. The prime of a players career in my mind is 22-27, because that tends to be the best 6 years of their career. Im not sure who your referring to when you say that people say Giroux is "old". To me, he entered his prime this season and this and the next 4-5 years will be his best. I think next season he will likely hit his peak.

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03-23-2011, 09:52 PM
  #39
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Cannon, I would up that to 29 or 30. I think in today's NHL guys like the sedins, brad richards, zetterberg, datsyk, sharp are all still in their prime at 30. Diet, fitness and new rules against stick work allow players to stay in top form longer.

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03-23-2011, 10:01 PM
  #40
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Selanne and Recchi are the definition of fit considering their age.

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03-23-2011, 10:21 PM
  #41
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Those guys are the exception, not the rule.

However, I think Giroux will be productive for a long time. His bread and butter is playmaking. He should be able to pass past his prime, and he will only get better defensively with experience.

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03-24-2011, 06:42 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Cannon, I would up that to 29 or 30. I think in today's NHL guys like the sedins, brad richards, zetterberg, datsyk, sharp are all still in their prime at 30. Diet, fitness and new rules against stick work allow players to stay in top form longer.
For every Sedin, Richards, Sharp and Zetterberg there are 2 Gagne, Gomez, Lecavalier, Comrie, and Redden's.

Your prime are the years that you can bank on having good production. While you can have a good year at 29 or 30, the nagging injuries come earlier in the season and your not nearly the lock you were for a big year like you are when you are 24-25.


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03-24-2011, 06:53 AM
  #43
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CannonGoBoom going boom!

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Old
03-24-2011, 07:59 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
For every Sedin, Richards, Sharp and Zetterberg there are 2 Gagne, Gomez, Lecavalier, Comrie, and Redden's.

Your prime are the years that you can bank on having good production. While you can have a good year at 29 or 30, the nagging injuries come earlier in the season and your not nearly the lock you were for a big year like you are when you are 24-25.
Guys born in 80 (Complete list of top guys all time scoring list):

1.Lecavalier - past prime (injuries)
2. Brad Richards - in best PPG of his career (91 points last year, 67 in 62 this year)
3. Henrik Sedin - Hart Trophy last year, 86 in 73 this year (Prime of his career)
4. Daniel Sedin - Hart Trophy this year
5. Simon Gagne - past prime (injuries)
6. Zetterberg - prime of his career of pace for 82 points this year
7. Mike Ribeiro - Still in top 20 in scoring, had 2 good years as a pro, hard to say
8. David Legwand - he is a 40-50 point guy still, has been his whole career
9. Nik Antropov - had his best year of his career last year
10. Mike Comrie - past prime

After this you have guys like Malhotra who are having their best years and many others that suck. But anyone not in the top 6 of this list is not really a good comparison to a star player like Giroux. So, barring injuries - using the top players at 30.....I don't see a reason why Giroux can't still be a top player at 30, his game would be closest to Henrik.

1979:
Top guys are Thornton, Hossa, Marleau, Tanguay, Gomez, Morrow, Gionta, Malone, Kunitz, Dupuis - all still good players in the NHL. All are now in the downside of their career. At 31, this is Thornton's first bad year in 5 years - he is closest to Giroux on this list. Hossa has been on a decline since 27, Marleau had his best year at 30 the rest are even on both sides of the coin.

I think Giroux is top 10 in the NHL today at 23. I think he will have his best years around 24-28. I think he will continue to be a point per game player until 29/30. That is all.

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03-24-2011, 08:13 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Guys born in 80 (Complete list of top guys all time scoring list):

1.Lecavalier - past prime (injuries)
2. Brad Richards - in best PPG of his career (91 points last year, 67 in 62 this year)
3. Henrik Sedin - Hart Trophy last year, 86 in 73 this year (Prime of his career)
4. Daniel Sedin - Hart Trophy this year
5. Simon Gagne - past prime (injuries)
6. Zetterberg - prime of his career of pace for 82 points this year
7. Mike Ribeiro - Still in top 20 in scoring, had 2 good years as a pro, hard to say
8. David Legwand - he is a 40-50 point guy still, has been his whole career
9. Nik Antropov - had his best year of his career last year
10. Mike Comrie - past prime

After this you have guys like Malhotra who are having their best years and many others that suck. But anyone not in the top 6 of this list is not really a good comparison to a star player like Giroux. So, barring injuries - using the top players at 30.....I don't see a reason why Giroux can't still be a top player at 30, his game would be closest to Henrik.

1979:
Top guys are Thornton, Hossa, Marleau, Tanguay, Gomez, Morrow, Gionta, Malone, Kunitz, Dupuis - all still good players in the NHL. All are now in the downside of their career. At 31, this is Thornton's first bad year in 5 years - he is closest to Giroux on this list. Hossa has been on a decline since 27, Marleau had his best year at 30 the rest are even on both sides of the coin.

I think Giroux is top 10 in the NHL today at 23. I think he will have his best years around 24-28. I think he will continue to be a point per game player until 29/30. That is all.
What about people born in 1980 who have retired already?

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03-24-2011, 08:34 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Guys born in 80 (Complete list of top guys all time scoring list):

1.Lecavalier - past prime (injuries)
2. Brad Richards - in best PPG of his career (91 points last year, 67 in 62 this year)
3. Henrik Sedin - Hart Trophy last year, 86 in 73 this year (Prime of his career)
4. Daniel Sedin - Hart Trophy this year
5. Simon Gagne - past prime (injuries)
6. Zetterberg - prime of his career of pace for 82 points this year
7. Mike Ribeiro - Still in top 20 in scoring, had 2 good years as a pro, hard to say
8. David Legwand - he is a 40-50 point guy still, has been his whole career
9. Nik Antropov - had his best year of his career last year
10. Mike Comrie - past prime

After this you have guys like Malhotra who are having their best years and many others that suck. But anyone not in the top 6 of this list is not really a good comparison to a star player like Giroux. So, barring injuries - using the top players at 30.....I don't see a reason why Giroux can't still be a top player at 30, his game would be closest to Henrik.

1979:
Top guys are Thornton, Hossa, Marleau, Tanguay, Gomez, Morrow, Gionta, Malone, Kunitz, Dupuis - all still good players in the NHL. All are now in the downside of their career. At 31, this is Thornton's first bad year in 5 years - he is closest to Giroux on this list. Hossa has been on a decline since 27, Marleau had his best year at 30 the rest are even on both sides of the coin.

I think Giroux is top 10 in the NHL today at 23. I think he will have his best years around 24-28. I think he will continue to be a point per game player until 29/30. That is all.
Thank you for making my point for me. Players CAN have good years into their 30's but if you had to go to Vegas and bet on a random players best 3 seasons in the NHL would you throw your house on 24-26 or 29-31? Go through the NHL and show me which players are better at 30 than they were at 25 and I'll come back with a list of thousands of players to counter.

By the way, don't be silly, Giroux is not a top 10 player in the NHL. Let's see him crack the PPG mark before we call him Forsberg.

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03-24-2011, 08:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Thank you for making my point for me. Players CAN have good years into their 30's but if you had to go to Vegas and bet on a random players best 3 seasons in the NHL would you throw your house on 24-26 or 29-31? Go through the NHL and show me which players are better at 30 than they were at 25 and I'll come back with a list of thousands of players to counter.

By the way, don't be silly, Giroux is not a top 10 player in the NHL. Let's see him crack the PPG mark before we call him Forsberg.
I am talking about points. He is 10th in league scoring. Actually, he is tied for 12th after Richards had 2 points last night. Got me there. Giroux is in the top 12 then, my mistake.

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03-24-2011, 08:50 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
What about people born in 1980 who have retired already?
Take a look at http://www.quanthockey.com/. IT has all players born in all years, all time sorted by career points, best years, etc. I did not exclude anyone retired from the list. I just took the top names of all players born that year, if players retired they are still on the list. Take a look - it is a very good site for hockey statistics.

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03-24-2011, 09:05 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Thank you for making my point for me. Players CAN have good years into their 30's but if you had to go to Vegas and bet on a random players best 3 seasons in the NHL would you throw your house on 24-26 or 29-31? Go through the NHL and show me which players are better at 30 than they were at 25 and I'll come back with a list of thousands of players to counter.

By the way, don't be silly, Giroux is not a top 10 player in the NHL. Let's see him crack the PPG mark before we call him Forsberg.
I think you are misunderstanding, I am saying that a players prime is from 24-30. Conventional wisdom has it at 27-32, I agree this is wrong. I believe the likelihood of a players best years being between 24-27 is likely, but 28-30 should also be prime years. Again, I am only looking at current day NHL, post lockout.

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03-24-2011, 09:17 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CptCannon View Post
Stupid Homer for signing Giroux to the three-year-contract, now that Giroux is past his prime already.













He will be the next recipient of the 15-20 year contract, no need to worry, Homer will get the most of this group over the long haul.

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