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New York Rangers continue to produce excellent prospects

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:42 PM
  #26
Ola
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Zucc behind Thomas AND Grachev is odd. Zucc have more potential then both, and is already in the NHL scoring as much is possible for a kid getting his ice time (he have Gabby and Cally infront of him, and still on some nights have even been the one guy Torts have put out there). Odd.

And how can Thomas have more potential then Zucc? Pts? Nope.

And how can Grachev have more potential then Zucc? Grachev can become a very solid player, if put in a role were he can play to his strength. He will never become a offensive goto player. Never.

Good list and great write-ups. But the above is hard to motivate. And you often see it. Like most prospects never even get a look. Then one makes it to the NHL, and from the first sec drops like a bunch of spots for some reason (girardi is a good example too).

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03-23-2011, 03:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
So between Kreider, Thomas and Grachev who's most likely to be playing for the Rangers next year?

I personally figured Grachev since he's been pro for a few years, but that's the only reason. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on this stuff in general and what I know about Thomas and Kreider is all second hand.

But in reading it it seemed like Thomas has the best shot. I thought there was more concern about his size, but I hope he's just changed people's perceptions this season.
I dont think any of those guys are ready and will be with the big team next year. I would say Grachev is the closest but I would say he plays a minimum of 40 games with the Whale.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:57 PM
  #28
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To give you an idea of how good Thomas is...

He's 6th overall in points (99) and 2nd overall in goals (54) in the OHL. The next player on his team is ranked #31 with 33-42-75. Then #51 (25-41-66)

By contrast, the #1 player in the OHL Tyler Toffoli has 108 points (57-51-108). The next player on his team is #13 (25-63-88) and then T-18 (34-49-83).

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:57 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I'd swap Hagelin with Grachev.


Overall, nice job.
Agreed.

Grachev has become someone I have a "blah" attitude for. Overhyped, then doesn't produce, on top of having a poor work ethic and attitude. Very eh. And with so many other promising wingers (Kreider, MZA, Thomas, Hagelin), I'm starting to seriously doubt his future here/not care.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:09 PM
  #30
Leslie Treff
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
This is an excellent writeup. Some notes and questions for you, Leslie:

-Thomas at an 8.0 seems slightly low to me. He appears to have potentially elite talent, as you yourself mentioned. I would think he'd be more in line with the 8.5 that you graded Kreider.

-Max Campbell. You state that he's almost certain to earn an ELC after this season. This is surprising to me. His senior season, while decent, is only marginally better than his sophomore campaign. Coupled with his abysmal junior season, he seems like a long shot. Has he progressed at all in his tenure at WMU? Less than a point-per-game for a 22 year old PP specialist just doesn't seem worthy of an ELC, to me anyway.

-Roman Horak, you described as being an excellent two-way winger. The times that I have seen him play, he didn't seem particularly adept in his own zone. Did I just catch his bad games? He also seemed a bit weak on and off the puck to me.

-Carl Hagelin was listed as having 15 goals and 22 points, when he actually finished the season with 18 goals and 30 assists.
First, sorry about the Hegelin error. It was edited after I wrote it. I wrote 15 goals, 22 assists for 37 points, which I believe was correct at the time I wrote the article.

Second, Thomas was originally ranked as a 7.5, based upon my viewings last season. Now I think that he may be an 8.5, but I was not sure enough to argue for it at this point (ratings are reviewed by the staff here). Should I continue to see what I think may be Thomas's upside, I will push for a move up to 8.5 over the summer.

As for Campbell, I do think that he has developed at WMU. Remember that the Rangers need not make a decision until August and Campbell's play this weekend and in Development camp will most likely influence the Rangers' decision.

In my opinion, Horak has a good two-way game. I can't tell you more than that--I have seen him play many times and he gets better and better. His upside is third- to second-line and I expect that he will move up in the Top 20 over the next couple of years.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:11 PM
  #31
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Cool. Awesome work as always, Leslie.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:11 PM
  #32
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So are the NY Rangers entering a time where they should take risky high potential prospects with offensive flair considering they have so many safe prospects in the system? Or continue drafting D and 'safe forwards' to use as trading chips or to replace those players who become 'tradeable'?

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
To give you an idea of how good Thomas is...

He's 6th overall in points (99) and 2nd overall in goals (54) in the OHL. The next player on his team is ranked #31 with 33-42-75. Then #51 (25-41-66)

By contrast, the #1 player in the OHL Tyler Toffoli has 108 points (57-51-108). The next player on his team is #13 (25-63-88) and then T-18 (34-49-83).
What does that mean?

Please check the top 10 in scoring in the OHL the last ten years.

Zucc LEAD the SEL in scoring last season.

Thomas is a good prospect, who could become a very good player. But he have very little playmaking ability, he is small and he isn't a great skater. Let's keep things in perspective, Thomas will not become a goto scorer in the NHL who gets like 80 pts. He could become a very very good player, but not like a Dany Heatly/Zach Parise type.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:28 PM
  #34
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Thanks Leslie.

I'm very curious to see what happens with V-tank and Kundratek. The Rangers need a PP QB and if that's going to be a defenseman, it seems like one of those two players will fall victim to a numbers game.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What does that mean?

Please check the top 10 in scoring in the OHL the last ten years.

Zucc LEAD the SEL in scoring last season.

Thomas is a good prospect, who could become a very good player. But he have very little playmaking ability, he is small and he isn't a great skater. Let's keep things in perspective, Thomas will not become a goto scorer in the NHL who gets like 80 pts. He could become a very very good player, but not like a Dany Heatly/Zach Parise type.
And MZA has less goal-scoring ability, is small and isn't a great skater either. He's also older. You also fail to mention the larger rink size.

MZA will be/is a very gifted playmaker. It doesn't take a long time to see that Thomas can be a gifted goal scorer after seeing him play, though.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:16 PM
  #36
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Leslie, how do you view Kreider's development? Is his "lack of scoring" explained by something or should we really be worrying about his upside as a scoring forward?

I'll be honest, it worries me a fair amount. The guy has a lot of tools, I'm just not sure how he's going to put them to work

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:23 PM
  #37
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Nice Article Leslie.

The guy I'm focused on is Grachev. Can you expand a little on him? Why do you think his progress is as slow as it's been?

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:24 PM
  #38
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Not completely in agreement on MZA either. I think he's legit. Yeah--he'll need to get a bit stronger but his game/talent isn't at all dissimilar to a St. Louis or a Claude Giroux. He plays with grit for his size as well. Not afraid to hit and not afraid to block shots. Torts has used him as well as a pwp point man which says to me that he's developed some faith in him as a player. I would put him behind Kreider and McDonagh on my list but that's about it.

Again with Dupont. Not saying that he deserves to be high up the list but I'd certainly put him before a long shot like Campell who might not even be contract worthy. Dupont might never make it with us but at least he's an option as an injury call up. Campbell seems to me to be a long way from that.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:28 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Leslie, how do you view Kreider's development? Is his "lack of scoring" explained by something or should we really be worrying about his upside as a scoring forward?

I'll be honest, it worries me a fair amount. The guy has a lot of tools, I'm just not sure how he's going to put them to work
Part of his relatively low scoring is related to Ice Time, He's not playing on BC's first line. Jerry York is known for giving ice time to his older players, as evidenced by the fact that all the top scorers on BC are older players, except for the top scoring defenseman who is a freshman. Additionally he has played a pretty solid two-way game. I go to school in Boston and I've seen him play a few times, including when he beat my Huskies in the Bean Pot final. I was so torn between watching my team lose and rooting for Kreider. I truly hated him that night.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
To give you an idea of how good Thomas is...

He's 6th overall in points (99) and 2nd overall in goals (54) in the OHL. The next player on his team is ranked #31 with 33-42-75. Then #51 (25-41-66)

By contrast, the #1 player in the OHL Tyler Toffoli has 108 points (57-51-108). The next player on his team is #13 (25-63-88) and then T-18 (34-49-83).
To me, while those are impressive numbers, all they men is that he deserves to be playing in a higher level, like the AHL right now. It just shows he has progressed faster than some of the other prospects. I don't look at that as a way of saying how good he can be, it just shows me he doesn't belong in the OHL right now.

With that said I think he will be a good player for us, not really sure when though.

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03-23-2011, 05:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
And MZA has less goal-scoring ability, is small and isn't a great skater either. He's also older. You also fail to mention the larger rink size.

MZA will be/is a very gifted playmaker. It doesn't take a long time to see that Thomas can be a gifted goal scorer after seeing him play, though.
I believe you are wrong.. MZA is a goalscorer with a good shot and I cant wait until we get to see that part of him with the Rangers. Europe has a bit of a pass first mentality that he will slowly rid himself with.
I was fortunate enough to see a lot of his Modo games and this guy still has such an upside that we have yet to see. It was also fun to watch the Thoresen/viking/MZA line in the olympics (small rinks), and that line dominated top NHL talent almost every shift.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:54 PM
  #42
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Kreider is going to be in the NHL in October.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:59 PM
  #43
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Kreider is going to be in the NHL in October.
If you keep wishing for it enough, which you have, maybe it'll come true.

Not likely, though

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:01 PM
  #44
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Don't care much right now about the order. Just really interested to see the write ups from an expert who isn't a troll.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:10 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What does that mean?

Please check the top 10 in scoring in the OHL the last ten years.

Zucc LEAD the SEL in scoring last season.

Thomas is a good prospect, who could become a very good player. But he have very little playmaking ability, he is small and he isn't a great skater. Let's keep things in perspective, Thomas will not become a goto scorer in the NHL who gets like 80 pts. He could become a very very good player, but not like a Dany Heatly/Zach Parise type.
I disagree with a lot of this. I don't think Zuc can very much better than he is now... which is a decent 2nd liner. On the other hand, Thomas has the potential to be much more. Maybe not Heatley/Parise, but possibly a Kessel-like (meaning when he was at his best) 1st line winger.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:15 PM
  #46
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Everyone is so down on Grachev and yet he will most likely end the season with around the same amount of points as Dubinsky did at the same age in the same league. Odd.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:16 PM
  #47
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5 words here make me tingle...

Quote:
possible future elite NHL player
Christian Thomas

Nice article Leslie.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
5 words here make me tingle...



Christian Thomas

Nice article Leslie.
While that is very possible, the one thing that confuses me is why he dropped to the second round. If he can snipe with some of these other guys he should have easily been a top 10 pick. Is it his size? I really have no idea, all I know is he is having a very good year in the OHL and he is a goal scorer.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:39 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
While that is very possible, the one thing that confuses me is why he dropped to the second round. If he can snipe with some of these other guys he should have easily been a top 10 pick. Is it his size? I really have no idea, all I know is he is having a very good year in the OHL and he is a goal scorer.
He was actually ranked all the way down at #66 by CIS. To contrast, Andrew Yogan was ranked 60th.

Its the size, man. It does matter. Take the kid the Kings drafted with the Boyle pick, for example.

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:43 PM
  #50
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The thing with Thomas though is, atleast in the O, he plays like a big guy. Very Callahan-like, although they play different games he's not deterred by his size to play the game.

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