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If Drury returns, he could help Rangers on draws

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Old
03-24-2011, 10:36 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MorrisWanchuk View Post
did you ever watch Redden?
Absolutely, Redden sucked his last year in ottawa, sucked his first year with the rangers, and his last year with the Rangers. Drury is coming of a 30 goal season, and had a modest first year with the Rangers, and then just kept slowly falling, until having ZERO GOALS, and 4 assists in what 24 games?

We knew a mistake was made when Redden was signed and knew what we were getting. Drury not so much.

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03-24-2011, 10:38 AM
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Oh god.

Hang 'em up already, Dru. You are not the same player you once were...

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03-24-2011, 10:38 AM
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i hope he comes back to buffalo when you guys buy him out this summer.

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03-24-2011, 10:39 AM
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In fairness, the Nazzy signing doesn't belong on that list. He did okay.

But the list of failed UFA signings is much longer than the list of successful ones (Shanahan, Prospal, Cullen)

With our RFA's coming up, I have no problem with more cap space.

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03-24-2011, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerbe42 View Post
i hope he comes back to buffalo .. when you guys buy him out this summer
Trade us a 4th rounder for him... I'm sure he'll waive his NMC.

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03-24-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
But the list of failed UFA signings is much longer than the list of successful ones (Shanahan, Prospal, Cullen)
Add Straka, Nylander, Rucinsky, to that list...

What's also not being communicated here is the players' complicity in some of these signings not being good.... More than a handful of them simply did not play or perform to their best potential while here. Sure Sather targeted them but he can't play the game for them out on the ice....

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03-24-2011, 10:41 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Who on Earth would they sit for him? The fact that he thinks he can still play is distressing indeed.
IMO it would be either wolski or mza...both of their values decrease in the playoffs with no shootouts. and if drury is playing to help on faceoffs it makes most sense for him to be on stepan's line since step is the weakest on draws. torts has avoided using that line on defensive draws but thats not always possible after an icing.

dubi has been a beast on draws lately...but that would be a nice insurance policy if stepan's line ices it in a key situation.

i don't really want drury back at all...but there is some logic behind the idea that he could help on faceoffs and pk.

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03-24-2011, 10:41 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Trade us a 4th rounder for him... I'm sure he'll waive his NMC.

lol .. I would like to sign him 1y 2m .

You guys 100% Buying him out ?

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03-24-2011, 10:42 AM
  #59
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Faceoffs play a much more important role in the playoffs, so the idea has merit. The $7M does not enter into the equation, we have to pay it anyway. (("we"! lol)

Early in the season I was concerned about drury returning and disrupting the chemistry and leadership that had emerged in his absence. That diisruption never materialized in the games that he played, and even though he was largely ineffective, he DID win faceoffs, and Torts kept his ice down to a minimum and inserted him for key draws. I would expect he'd be used the same way in the playoffs if he were to return. That could theoretically be helpful.

I have serious doubts about him be ABLE to return because of injuries and conditioning. If we were to make it to late 2nd round or ECF, odds increase that he makes an appearance. JMHO

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03-24-2011, 10:42 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Christensen has been more consistent than Drury over past two years? OK. Christensen was on waivers last year. He's on pace for 29 points this season. That number is worse than Drury last year. Don't see consistency there. Or productive. This season, obviously Drury has played 23 games. Christensen is on pace for the exact same amount of points playing with the teams best scorer. So, no, he's not been more consistent or productive.
Sigh, now you're gonna make me look up stats to prove you wrong.

Drury scored 0.41 ppg last season.
Christensen scored 0.53 ppg last season.

This year Christensen has 26 points in 55 games. That's 0.47 ppg.
Drury as you know has 4 points (and 0 goals) in 23 games. That's 0.17 ppg.

So, yes, Christensen has been more consistent AND more productive over the last two years, like I said. I even said in my original post that it was slight, but you simply can't tell me that Drury's been more consistent or productive when he FACTUALLY HAS NOT.

Furthermore, you completely ignored my points about Zuccarello and Wolski so I'll just assume you realized how incredibly off-base your comments regarding the two of them were.

I get that with all the Drury-hate going around here (some of it warranted and some of it a bit extreme) you may feel the need to stand up for him, but be realistic, at least. There are certainly a number of teams who, should Drury be bought out, would inquire about a 1-2 year deal at 1-1.5 million per year for Drury to play on their 4th line and provide experience, leadership, faceoffs, etc. But I just think the New York Rangers are not one of those teams who would benefit from him.

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03-24-2011, 10:43 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Who do you want him to play with though? He doesn't deserve a lot of playing time and we shouldn't break up any of our lines with chemistry for the sake of getting him out there for a face-off.... His potential impact in the face-off circle is greatly limited by his even strength play and lack of chemistry with other forwards.... If he was more serviceable at even strength it might make sense but right now that's not the case.... Prust/Boyle/Feds line and Dubi/AA/Callahan lines should not be altered and the other 2 lines are not that good defensively do I wouldn't expect them to be out there much during key game situations....
I'd utilize Drury as a pure faceoff specialist, similar to what the Canucks were doing with Malhotra. He doesn't even need to have a set line. Let him take all the defensive zone faceoffs on the PK. He's still good enough of a PK'er to merit shifts there. Let him take big D-zone faceoffs late in games and than just shift him out when the puck moves up ice.

There are nights where we get powerplays and can't even get set up because we repeatedly lose offensive zone draws and just waste 20-30 seconds trying to retrieve and get through the neutral zone. I'd even throw Drury out there in those situations.

I know it's an unpopular opinion around here but Zuccarello hasn't done much lately. He has to produce points to merit a roster spot because he brings nothing else. Christensen looked good for a couple of games but he might be sliding back into the doldrums. Wolski is a guy who's purpose is going to be greatly negated in the playoffs when the games are no longer decided in the shootouts. He needs to start putting up points.

Those are just some guys that I'd have no problem taking out of this roster come playoff time, provided they don't start scoring.

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03-24-2011, 10:44 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Gerbe42 View Post
lol .. I would like to sign him 1y 2m .

You guys 100% Buying him out ?
It seems like it's all but guaranteed. He's been passed on our depth chart, his injuries have limited his effectiveness.... We have several key RFA's to renegotiate new contracts for this off-season and Brad Richards is #1 on our UFA shopping list. By buying out Drury we will gain and extra $3.3 mil in cap space for next season so it makes a lot of sense from that standpoint.

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03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) That doesn't effect the development of this year's team.

2) Redden was the last bad contract? Did you miss Boogaard (3 more years of this guy)? Did you miss Kotalik? Managing to move a bad contract is nice. Not giving it out in the first place is better.
I guess I have to be absolutely specific then. Redden was the last BIG bad contract he has handed out. Is Kotalik still on the team? And Kotalik was brought in for a specific purpose, to be a PP specialist. Didn't work out and he was moved.

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03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
It seems like it's all but guaranteed. He's been passed on our depth chart, his injuries have limited his effectiveness.... We have several key RFA's to renegotiate new contracts for this off-season and Brad Richards is #1 on our UFA shopping list. By buying out Drury we will gain and extra $3.3 mil in cap space for next season so it makes a lot of sense from that standpoint.

thanks for the info .

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03-24-2011, 10:46 AM
  #65
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Just to throw this out there...EC set up Frolov a number of times where he had a great chance to scored but didn't. Christensen COULD be around 35 points in 55. Not exactly bad.

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03-24-2011, 10:48 AM
  #66
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I'd utilize Drury as a pure faceoff specialist, similar to what the Canucks were doing with Malhotra. He doesn't even need to have a set line. Let him take all the defensive zone faceoffs on the PK. He's still good enough of a PK'er to merit shifts there. Let him take big D-zone faceoffs late in games and than just shift him out when the puck moves up ice.

There are nights where we get powerplays and can't even get set up because we repeatedly lose offensive zone draws and just waste 20-30 seconds trying to retrieve and get through the neutral zone. I'd even throw Drury out there in those situations.
If we could get him out there for a draw, and then get him off the ice, I wouldn't object to that... One thing I worry about is that we are doing okay rolling 4 lines now... With Drury in the line-up, I don't see Torts playing the 4th line much or whomever he pairs with Drury at even strength... Sort of what I worried about when Boogaard would be in the line-up, that 2 other forwards would see significant less playing time because Torts can't rely on that line too much at ES.

Quote:
I know it's an unpopular opinion around here but Zuccarello hasn't done much lately. He has to produce points to merit a roster spot because he brings nothing else. Christensen looked good for a couple of games but he might be sliding back into the doldrums. Wolski is a guy who's purpose is going to be greatly negated in the playoffs when the games are no longer decided in the shootouts. He needs to start putting up points.

Those are just some guys that I'd have no problem taking out of this roster come playoff time, provided they don't start scoring.
I agree that MZA hasn't shown much the last several games. Stepan and Wolski either. Sure Stepan has had a few opportunistic goals here and there but his play at even strength has left much to be desired... Just doesn't seem to be too involved in the play....

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03-24-2011, 10:49 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
This is such an exaggerated notion. The notion that Sather is some child who just threw money at some nobody. Drury was coming off two near-70-point seasons with 30+ goals in each. Couple that with his reputation of being a clutch playoff performer and an all-around solid player. Most Rangers fans at the time were thrilled that we got him. Most of us thought he was overpayed by about 1.5-2 million at the time, and we all would've been much more okay with that overpayment if he continued to put up 50-60 point seasons. He scored 50+ in his first two with the Rangers. Last year he dropped to 32 and was a noticeably different player. He lost a step. This year, it's just progressed even worse, and the injuries certainly haven't helped.
So you have no problem with Drury's contract. OK. And Gomez and Redden? His history has been exactly to throw money at players.

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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Not to mention there were other bidders for him willing to give him the same contract or close to it / possibly even a little more than that. We got Scott Gomez on the same day and Gomez actually peformed the way he was expected to. He put up 70 points and then 58 points before we traded him.
Others willing to be wrong, doesn't make Sather right.

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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Now, the main issue is that Gomez and Drury are not and never were 7.5 and 7 million dollar players, but that IS what their market value was. All free agents are overpaid this way. We happened to get two of them on the same day. And we also happened to give one of them a full NMC. That was a mistake. Sather knows it was a mistake. But if it had worked out and Gomez had some magical chemistry with Jagr and Drury improved upon his seasons in Buffalo and scored 75 points and we won a Stanley Cup, then the overpayment would've been justified. But like 29 other teams each year, we didn't win the cup so all the moves are scrutinized and mistakes are amplified.
But that's the point. He paid two players who were never elite players, elite money. "Ifs" don't counts. "Ares" and "Dids" do.

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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Wade Redden is another story. We should've done a better job scouting / watching him and realized that he was never going to be the same player he was in the clutch-and-grab era. It was certainly a mistake, but in Sather's one defense, there were many teams after Redden and Sather did what GMs of most teams WISH their GM would do, and do what it takes to get the targeted player here. If we had did our homework better and targeted Streit, our defense would be arguably the best in the league right now. Staal and Streit, McD and Sauer, Girardi and... anyone. Wow.
So that's his only bad deal?

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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Sather has made mistakes, sure. But he's never made a mistake without reason. All those moves were to make us a better team. And it's not as if we gave up promising young players to take risks on these overpaid, overrated veterans. Sather turned Gomez into McD+ and used the cap-space to sign a guy who scored 40+ goals and 80+ points with us last year. He admitted his mistake with Redden and did what was best for the team by burrying him. Drury's final year will likely be bought out if he doesn't retire on his own. I do trust Sather with cap-space. I trust that he knows our need and will do what it takes to get him here. That means Brad Richards. I'd rather have a GM like Sather who takes the chance in free-agency than a guy like Dean Lombardi who talks about their needs but is too afraid to make a big move so he continuously settles on plan C or D. How good would the Kings be if they had signed Kovalchuk? How good would the Kings be if they had signed Gaborik the year before?
I'm glad the mistakes were made for a reason. That makes much more sense. I'll wait for you to tell me how giving a four year to a one-dimensional goon with a history of injuries was made for a reason. Especially after he gave a two year deal to a one-dimensional goon the summer before

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Just because some of Sather's free-agency signings (that were mostly applauded at the time of each signing) haven't worked out doesn't mean he's incapable of signing the right players and having them work out. To think otherwise is just naive. This team isn't on a 10-year rebuild plan and they shouldn't be. We HAVE the young core and we have even younger prospects in the pipeline who will be joining that core in the next 1-3 years. It is TIME to make that big impact move that takes us to the next level with the Penguins, Flyers, and Bruins. That move is Brad Richards and Sather is a GM who is going to go after him hard, as he should.
I don't care if the fans applauded the moves. It's his job to make sure the moves work. It's his job to manage the cap. It's his job to do a cost-benefit analysis. He shows no restraint save that which the capspace provides. This is the guy who said he would win the Cup every year if he had the Rangers' deep pockets. His answer to every problem is to throw money at it. Consider:

1) He manages to move Gomez's terrible contract. Then he turns around and throws bigger money at a big name free agent who was coming off an injury ravaged season.

2) He signs Brashear to a bad contract and then gives another bad contract to Brashear after Shelley left for a worse deal.

Where is the change in MO? He's done nothing different just on a proportionally smaller level. Some mindset.

Scott Gomez 7 years, 51.5M

Donald Brashear 2 years, 2.8M

Darius Kasparaitis 6 years, 27M

Wade Redden 6 years, 39M

Bobby Holik 5 years, 45M

Ales Kotalik 3 years 9M

Off course he's going to go hard after Richards (who now is a concussion risk). It's what he does. But hey you can be a man or a mouse.

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03-24-2011, 10:49 AM
  #68
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Add Straka, Nylander, Rucinsky, to that list...

What's also not being communicated here is the players' complicity in some of these signings not being good.... More than a handful of them simply did not play or perform to their best potential while here. Sure Sather targeted them but he can't play the game for them out on the ice....
Absolutely those three not to mention How about Dan Girardi? Rozsival was pretty good for a while. Gaborik? Biron at his salary?

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03-24-2011, 10:50 AM
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I guess I have to be absolutely specific then. Redden was the last BIG bad contract he has handed out. Is Kotalik still on the team? And Kotalik was brought in for a specific purpose, to be a PP specialist. Didn't work out and he was moved.
Doesn't matter if he's on the team or not. Boogaard is on the team. Was that a good contract? Three more years of him. He hasn't been able to sign big contracts because of his misuse of capspace
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03-24-2011, 10:51 AM
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we don't desperately need a face off man. look at the stats in the last 2 months - Dubi & Prospal are over 50%. Boyle is around 48%. Stepan is way down at like 37% - that's why Torts doesnt use that line in Dzone face offs.

I would trust Vinny or Dubi to take a draw just as much as Drury.
Why should I just look at the last 2 months? The whole reason faceoff percentage is a useful stat is because it's accumulated via a large sample size. Players always regress to the mean. Prospal is a good faceoff man, no doubt about it. Dubi is at 51.6 % which is pretty solid. However, Torts seems to prefer both of those guys at wing. No one else on the team is over 50%. Boyle, for a big guy, is not good at faceoffs. 48.2% is not very strong, especially for someone in the role that he is in. He needs to learn to win draws with his body and his skates and not just his stick.

Christensen is bad at draws, Anisimov is bad at draws and Stepan is terrible at draws. So, ultimately, we don't have one designated center who is really strong at faceoffs. Prospal and Dubi can be swapped in when needed and they do an admirable job there. I'd still feel more comfortable with Drury, especially in the playoffs when every single draw can change a game and a series.

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03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
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He's been absent most of the season, when he's in the line-up, he plays 4th line minutes, his impact is negligible. The younger guys are leading the team now. If they need veteran leadership they can look to Prospal & McCabe.... We absolutely don't need veteran leadership from a player who can't lead out on the ice with his play.
Absent most of the season? WTF does that have to do with this ? Nothing. You have a chance to make your team better you do it, especially a team riddled with injured bodies during the toughest time of year.

4th line minutes? Ask Philly or Chicago if Blair Betts or Adam Burish were just bystanders during last years playoffs.

Winning faceoffs, being a team player and bringing playoff intensity is valued in this league, always has been. You can point to any Cup team and see those kind of players and no matter what their role the team could not have succeeded without them.

That's why we paid a big price for Craig MacTavish and he absolutely was needed to win that Cup.

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03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
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Absolutely those three not to mention How about Dan Girardi? Rozsival was pretty good for a while. Gaborik? Biron at his salary?
And what happened to moves like those?

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03-24-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So you have no problem with Drury's contract. OK. And Gomez and Redden? His history has been exactly to throw money at players.



Others willing to be wrong, doesn't make Sather right.



But that's the point. He paid two players who were never elite players, elite money. "Ifs" don't counts. "Ares" and "Dids" do.



So that's his only bad deal?



I'm glad the mistakes were made for a reason. That makes much more sense. I'll wait for you to tell me how giving a four year to a one-dimensional goon with a history of injuries was made for a reason. Especially after he gave a two year deal to a one-dimensional goon the summer before



I don't care if the fans applauded the moves. It's his job to make sure the moves work. It's his job to manage the cap. It's his job to do a cost-benefit analysis. He shows no restraint save that which the capspace provides. This is the guy who said he would win the Cup every year if he had the Rangers' deep pockets. His answer to every problem is to throw money at it. Consider:

1) He manages to move Gomez's terrible contract. Then he turns around and throws bigger money at a big name free agent who was coming off an injury ravaged season.

2) He signs Brashear to a bad contract and then gives another bad contract to Brashear after Shelley left for a worse deal.

Where is the change in MO? He's done nothing different just on a proportionally smaller level. Some mindset.

Scott Gomez 7 years, 51.5M

Donald Brashear 2 years, 2.8M

Darius Kasparaitis 6 years, 27M

Wade Redden 6 years, 39M

Bobby Holik 5 years, 45M

Ales Kotalik 3 years 9M

Off course he's going to go hard after Richards (who now is a concussion risk). It's what he does. But hey you can be a man or a mouse.
And that injury ravaged guy managed to finish 5th in the NHL in goals scored and still has what 23 goals this year?

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03-24-2011, 10:55 AM
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And what happened to moves like those?
What do you mean? They have been success's if thats what your asking, well according to your other post Gaborik is an injury ravaged guy not deserving of 7.5 million.

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03-24-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Sigh, now you're gonna make me look up stats to prove you wrong.

Drury scored 0.41 ppg last season.
Christensen scored 0.53 ppg last season.

This year Christensen has 26 points in 55 games. That's 0.47 ppg.
Drury as you know has 4 points (and 0 goals) in 23 games. That's 0.17 ppg.

So, yes, Christensen has been more consistent AND more productive over the last two years, like I said. I even said in my original post that it was slight, but you simply can't tell me that Drury's been more consistent or productive when he FACTUALLY HAS NOT.

Furthermore, you completely ignored my points about Zuccarello and Wolski so I'll just assume you realized how incredibly off-base your comments regarding the two of them were.

I get that with all the Drury-hate going around here (some of it warranted and some of it a bit extreme) you may feel the need to stand up for him, but be realistic, at least. There are certainly a number of teams who, should Drury be bought out, would inquire about a 1-2 year deal at 1-1.5 million per year for Drury to play on their 4th line and provide experience, leadership, faceoffs, etc. But I just think the New York Rangers are not one of those teams who would benefit from him.
Those numbers are a lot closer when you consider that Christensen plays with the best offensive player on the team and Drury was playing third/fourth line minutes, with third/fourth line players and no PP time.

You want to make an argument for what Wolski and Zuccarello add playing on the fourth line (and right now, that's the fourth line) tell me.

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