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Jaques Martin: Coaching discussion

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:48 PM
  #101
Gary320
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Originally Posted by sakukoivu2003 View Post
What is sad is that we will lose Kirk Muller next year...
Say's who =-o

He could easily be our coach.. =-o

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:21 PM
  #102
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As if the cheerleader would have better results than the old wolf...

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03-25-2011, 08:44 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Carey Price makes coach look smart, I agree.
Actually, I think Price looks that much better because of the system JM put in place. JM is a great coach. The only negative is that he doesn't seem to be very good with in-game adjustments. Then again, it's not like the Habs are loaded with talent. It's all about the system and PP. Both of those are all coaching.

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03-25-2011, 09:12 PM
  #104
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How about a Go Habs Go?

would it hurt?


Omg playoffs trash talk is coming soooon, oh my god oh my god oh my gods cant wait any longer!


GO HABS GOOOOOO

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Old
03-25-2011, 09:52 PM
  #105
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as hard as that might be to imagine, eller and DD are not ready to play against the opponent's top lines. whenever that happens, DD gets eaten alive and eller just seems out of place - better than DD but out of place still.

so that means only gomez and pleks can play against top lines.

also keep in mind that these two fan favorite only look good because JM plays them against opponent's bottom lines

take off your homer glasses, and i know it hurts to admit it, but gomez cannot be replaced with either of them - yet.
So what do we do? Continue to lose with Gomez on the ice more than anyone else?

Gomez has already proven that he will give us nothing. No offense. Lots of turnovers and penalties.

Eller and DD have a lot greater upside than Gomez. Why? We know what Gomez offers. And we have seen what Eller and DD can do WHEN GIVEN ICE TIME.

Martin is a failure here just like he has been everywhere else he has coached. Last year was a magical ride compliments of Halak. If Martin stays on, we will forever be fighting for places 6 through 8 and we will continue to be the softest team in the League that lacks offensive power.

Time to go Jacques. I wish you well somewhere......as long as it isnt here.

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03-25-2011, 10:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
So then the new guy comes in..

has a good stretch.. everyone likes him.
we start losing.. everyone hates him and asks him to get fired..

RINSE AND REPEAT

It's been the same god damn thing for 5-6 coaches. 2/4 of them have become successful coaches elsewhere. Firing and Hiring new coaches maybe just DOESN'T work in the long run?

Say what you want about Martin, you can give me ******** that he didn't do anything for us... but in two years, we've had more success than we've had in 10+ following our 93 cup win. So maybe, just maybe he's doing something right..

With all due respect to Halak, he really was awesome in the post-season.. but you know what else helped? Our defensive strategy. We were (are) not a deeply offensive scoring team and the coach knew it, so we went through the post-season with a simple defense first approach.. and it did wonders for us. I mean look at the Cap's series, how many of the shots from the Caps were close to the blue line? Seriously, the defense was outstanding in the post-season.. time to give credit to the coach..

I don't like ALOT of thinks Martin does, but in the end.. he has helped us win. In the end, firing him and hiring some new guy will do jack **** difference.

Is it going to make us all of a sudden start being the top scoring team in the league? NO. If you want to look for changes in the team, it's not with the coach that you start it with.
So do we just accept mediocrity and live with it? Do we just give up on ever winning another Stanley Cup?

Lets look at the coaches we have had here since 2000.

Michel Therrien--He is now a scout for the Wild.
Claude Julien--Bruins coach.
Bob Gainey (2 part time stints)--Failed as a GM here and is now hanging out with Gauthier at Canadiens' games.
Guy Carbonneau--Coaching in Juniors.
Jacques Martin--Present day coach.

None of those coaches could win a Cup. Julien is the only one still coaching in the NHL and he will probably not win a Cup with the Bruins.

Should we have kept those coaches around? Since leaving Montreal, they have shown that they do not have the TALENT and ABILITIES to be head coaches in the NHL (with the exception of Julien).

Molson needs to take a look at history and finally decide to run away from it. For too long we have relied on the Habs stars of the past to lead this team. And it isnt working. Geoff needs to hire a coach and GM who believes in hard nosed hockey, regardless of whether they can speak French (they can always use Rosetta Stone to learn the language) or not and get away from the good ole boy network that has kept us mired in just being an average team.

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:21 PM
  #107
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Actually, I think Price looks that much better because of the system JM put in place. JM is a great coach. The only negative is that he doesn't seem to be very good with in-game adjustments. Then again, it's not like the Habs are loaded with talent. It's all about the system and PP. Both of those are all coaching.
These past two seasons, i have never seen a Montreal team give up as many QUALITY scoring chances as this team.

When Theodore and Huet, going back to Hackett the teams gave up a tonne of shots but a good majority were perimeter shots and one shots with the rebound cleared. This Montreal team gives up more breakaways, partial breaks, and odd man rushes than any other hab team i have witnessed.

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03-25-2011, 10:50 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
So do we just accept mediocrity and live with it? Do we just give up on ever winning another Stanley Cup?

Lets look at the coaches we have had here since 2000.

Michel Therrien--He is now a scout for the Wild.
Claude Julien--Bruins coach.
Bob Gainey (2 part time stints)--Failed as a GM here and is now hanging out with Gauthier at Canadiens' games.
Guy Carbonneau--Coaching in Juniors.
Jacques Martin--Present day coach.

None of those coaches could win a Cup. Julien is the only one still coaching in the NHL and he will probably not win a Cup with the Bruins.

Should we have kept those coaches around? Since leaving Montreal, they have shown that they do not have the TALENT and ABILITIES to be head coaches in the NHL (with the exception of Julien).

Molson needs to take a look at history and finally decide to run away from it. For too long we have relied on the Habs stars of the past to lead this team. And it isnt working. Geoff needs to hire a coach and GM who believes in hard nosed hockey, regardless of whether they can speak French (they can always use Rosetta Stone to learn the language) or not and get away from the good ole boy network that has kept us mired in just being an average team.
How exactly has Gainey failed as a GM? He has had an excellent career and has brought the Habs back to respectability. Not even the greatest genius of hockey could have taken the team he inherited to the cup within 5 years, so considering that we should be satisfied that Gainey has turned a mediocre team that missed the playoffs consistently into a perennial playoff team.

The cup argument is extremely flawed, as it always is when judging a players, coaches, GM ect. While winning it all is an astonishing feat, it also requires a huge deal of luck and obviously theres only one team that wins it every year, each time leaving 29 other teams&coaches to fail despite their possible achievements. This is all bloody obvious, but people keep using cups as an argument despite this. Hartley won a cup as a coach, is he better than Martin? Brett ******* Lebda won a cup with the Wings, is he better than Daniel Alfredsson, Saku Koivu, Jarome Iginla and Mats Sundin?

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03-25-2011, 10:54 PM
  #109
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I'm so tired of this team being pushed around and still not doing ****. I've been feeling flat-out embarrassed about many games these past two years; our guys getting beat-up, flat-out bullied.

Bring quality players with heart who can step up to their teammates. "Hurr durr dis doesnt even win gaemz lol". As if our current soft mentality wins games.

Jacques Martin, the biggest wuss of a coach of all time must go, along with Gauthier.

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03-26-2011, 12:01 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
How exactly has Gainey failed as a GM? He has had an excellent career and has brought the Habs back to respectability. Not even the greatest genius of hockey could have taken the team he inherited to the cup within 5 years, so considering that we should be satisfied that Gainey has turned a mediocre team that missed the playoffs consistently into a perennial playoff team.

The cup argument is extremely flawed, as it always is when judging a players, coaches, GM ect. While winning it all is an astonishing feat, it also requires a huge deal of luck and obviously theres only one team that wins it every year, each time leaving 29 other teams&coaches to fail despite their possible achievements. This is all bloody obvious, but people keep using cups as an argument despite this. Hartley won a cup as a coach, is he better than Martin? Brett ******* Lebda won a cup with the Wings, is he better than Daniel Alfredsson, Saku Koivu, Jarome Iginla and Mats Sundin?
Look at our roster today and tell me that Gainey was successful with his overpaid and very soft players.

We lack size and grit. And we have Gomez for a while. LaRaque. I could go on but I wont.

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03-26-2011, 01:08 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Woodson Hoggs View Post
Jacques Martin, the biggest wuss of a coach of all time must go, along with Gauthier.
Jacques Martin is not a wuss. He is our Mr. Miyagi. As for Gauthier he has not been around long enough for us to know. He was kind of placed in a tough situation by Gainey, as well.

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03-26-2011, 01:24 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Woodson Hoggs View Post
I'm so tired of this team being pushed around and still not doing ****. I've been feeling flat-out embarrassed about many games these past two years; our guys getting beat-up, flat-out bullied.

Bring quality players with heart who can step up to their teammates. "Hurr durr dis doesnt even win gaemz lol". As if our current soft mentality wins games.

Jacques Martin, the biggest wuss of a coach of all time must go, along with Gauthier.
There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start. The coach decides the system we play but I don't really know what you would want him to do about player toughness. JM is the right coach for the personnel we have so why are you slagging him for the players getting beaten up? Also you guys are being way to excitable, we may have lost two games in a row but I am still fairly certain the sky will not fall and I await the two game winning streak that will guarantee our cup this year.

For whatever clever quote you were writing I ask you this: would you rather have a team with tons of skill and character like the Habs or do you want a "truculent" team with a blue maple leaf that can't even spell playoffs?

And finally what exactly has PG done that he needs to be on the next train out of town? Keeping the team in a playoff spot despite losing an insane amount or regulars would be applauded by most teams but I guess if he doesn't suit-up and score himself than he is a dud. The guy has made nothing but good trades and I for one think he has done a great job.

Some guys just need to take a breather and come back a little more level headed. Go Habs go!

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03-26-2011, 03:08 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
For whatever clever quote you were writing I ask you this: would you rather have a team with tons of skill and character like the Habs or do you want a "truculent" team with a blue maple leaf that can't even spell playoffs?

And finally what exactly has PG done that he needs to be on the next train out of town? Keeping the team in a playoff spot despite losing an insane amount or regulars would be applauded by most teams but I guess if he doesn't suit-up and score himself than he is a dud. The guy has made nothing but good trades and I for one think he has done a great
go!
.
Well said, 5 stars

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03-26-2011, 06:34 AM
  #114
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There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start. The coach decides the system we play but I don't really know what you would want him to do about player toughness. JM is the right coach for the personnel we have so why are you slagging him for the players getting beaten up? Also you guys are being way to excitable, we may have lost two games in a row but I am still fairly certain the sky will not fall and I await the two game winning streak that will guarantee our cup this year.

For whatever clever quote you were writing I ask you this: would you rather have a team with tons of skill and character like the Habs or do you want a "truculent" team with a blue maple leaf that can't even spell playoffs?

And finally what exactly has PG done that he needs to be on the next train out of town? Keeping the team in a playoff spot despite losing an insane amount or regulars would be applauded by most teams but I guess if he doesn't suit-up and score himself than he is a dud. The guy has made nothing but good trades and I for one think he has done a great job.

Some guys just need to take a breather and come back a little more level headed. Go Habs go!
There is so much wrong with YOUR post. JM has never won anything,despite having some great Ottawa teams,unless you count winning the Northeast division. He has definate input on player and personnel decision. ottawa always got beat up and humiliated by TO in the playoffs and by other tough teams during the season.The injury excuse is so whiny and overrated. other than Markov and Pacs,EVERY injured player has been interchangeable or replaced. (Wiz + Sopel > Gorges and Spacek.The other injuries were for a few games here and there. Flyers are in 1st w/o Pronger,Pens doing great,B's in 1st w/o Savard. Stop the excuses.

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03-26-2011, 06:42 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by jlgib21 View Post
There is so much wrong with YOUR post. JM has never won anything,despite having some great Ottawa teams,unless you count winning the Northeast division. He has definate input on player and personnel decision. ottawa always got beat up and humiliated by TO in the playoffs and by other tough teams during the season.The injury excuse is so whiny and overrated. other than Markov and Pacs,EVERY injured player has been interchangeable or replaced. (Wiz + Sopel > Gorges and Spacek.The other injuries were for a few games here and there. Flyers are in 1st w/o Pronger,Pens doing great,B's in 1st w/o Savard. Stop the excuses.
you know Pronger played a few games this year right ? (Flyers lost 4 of their last 7 btw...)

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03-26-2011, 06:52 AM
  #116
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you know Pronger played a few games this year right ? (Flyers lost 4 of their last 7 btw...)
Cherry picking ? he's missed alot,and he is a 1st ballot HOFer

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03-26-2011, 06:57 AM
  #117
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Cherry picking ? he's missed alot,and he is a 1st ballot HOFer
Flyers are not missing as many guys as we are. And I know the injury excuse cannot account for everything, but it sure hurts somewhat, you must admit. Our team was built in a day buy Gainey in July of 09. The fact that we are in 6th right now, tells me Martin is doing something right.

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03-26-2011, 07:10 AM
  #118
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Cherry picking ? he's missed alot,and he is a 1st ballot HOFer
he actually played 50 games so far... wich is 43 more than Markov...

and the 4 loss in 7, guess who the Flyers had missing...

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03-26-2011, 11:08 AM
  #119
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There is so much wrong with YOUR post. JM has never won anything,despite having some great Ottawa teams,unless you count winning the Northeast division. He has definate input on player and personnel decision. ottawa always got beat up and humiliated by TO in the playoffs and by other tough teams during the season.The injury excuse is so whiny and overrated. other than Markov and Pacs,EVERY injured player has been interchangeable or replaced. (Wiz + Sopel > Gorges and Spacek.The other injuries were for a few games here and there. Flyers are in 1st w/o Pronger,Pens doing great,B's in 1st w/o Savard. Stop the excuses.

Great post.

If a coach goes into the GM's office and tells the GM that he would like to have a tough fighting forward and D Man willing to fight (a little tougher than Mara ) to protect his small skilled forwards, then the biggest majority of GM's will work with his coach to get those players.

If the GM refuses to make the moves, then it is the fault of the GM.

But based on history, Martin has not requested protection for his forwards.

And I think that the injury excuse is just that....an excuse. Vancouver has had the injury bug just as bad as we have. And look at where they sit in the playoff hunt.

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03-26-2011, 02:17 PM
  #120
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Great post.

If a coach goes into the GM's office and tells the GM that he would like to have a tough fighting forward and D Man willing to fight (a little tougher than Mara ) to protect his small skilled forwards, then the biggest majority of GM's will work with his coach to get those players.

If the GM refuses to make the moves, then it is the fault of the GM.

But based on history, Martin has not requested protection for his forwards.

And I think that the injury excuse is just that....an excuse. Vancouver has had the injury bug just as bad as we have. And look at where they sit in the playoff hunt.
Since the 8-6 game versus Boston we have brought in White, Mara and Sopel. Add that to what little existing toughness we had and we are now about middle of the pack in terms of toughness. What some people don't seem to realize is that GMs aren't magicians and that tough, skilled players are the exact kind e very team in the league covets so you have to pay out the *** to get them. I just don't get how poeple think that because we don't have Shea Weber or Lucic that we don't want tough players. We don't have Crosby yet we still want skill players, there is just the little detail that there is a finite number of each type of player and it isn't the old "a colour television in every house".

You said you wanted a tough fighting forward a Dman tougher than Mara. Unless we go the route of a goon then you have to be prepared to give up a at least a second or third rounder for each of those. There we people crying when we gave up a fifth for Mara and he has been an absolute stud for us. Ottawa wanted a second for Neil and I have no clue who you were targeting on D, do you want Komi back?

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03-26-2011, 02:21 PM
  #121
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There is so much wrong with YOUR post. JM has never won anything,despite having some great Ottawa teams,unless you count winning the Northeast division. He has definate input on player and personnel decision. ottawa always got beat up and humiliated by TO in the playoffs and by other tough teams during the season.The injury excuse is so whiny and overrated. other than Markov and Pacs,EVERY injured player has been interchangeable or replaced. (Wiz + Sopel > Gorges and Spacek.The other injuries were for a few games here and there. Flyers are in 1st w/o Pronger,Pens doing great,B's in 1st w/o Savard. Stop the excuses.
If injuries aren't an excuse name the last team to win the cup with this many injuries. Detroit came close a couple years ago but they didn't have the same volume or length of injuries. Also I really don't care what happened in Ottawa, if you look at that roster you will find a lot of talented guys who have never won anything at the NHL level (except Hossa on his third try) Also they never had the goaltending to cover for their choking, something you have seen JM go far with in the last two years.

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03-26-2011, 02:28 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Woodson Hoggs View Post
I'm so tired of this team being pushed around and still not doing ****. I've been feeling flat-out embarrassed about many games these past two years; our guys getting beat-up, flat-out bullied.

Bring quality players with heart who can step up to their teammates. "Hurr durr dis doesnt even win gaemz lol". As if our current soft mentality wins games.

Jacques Martin, the biggest wuss of a coach of all time must go, along with Gauthier.
We don't have a soft mentality, I'm sure JM doesn't mind if the Habs fight once in awhile and play with a gritty style. But we are in no way a tough team, we have maximum four guys who can push other teams around and play a tough game.

JM is using the advantages he has on our team which are speed and goaltending. This is why he has applied a system in which we play a great defensive game to support our goalie. We have one of the best transition games in the league, so the defensive style suits us because we can easily transition and create good offense with our speedy forwards.

We are a small team, we don't even get beat up that often.... So there really should be a lot less whining about the toughness of this team and more about how there has been no effort in recent games from the PLAYERS. It isn't the coaches fault.

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03-26-2011, 03:26 PM
  #123
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We don't have a soft mentality, I'm sure JM doesn't mind if the Habs fight once in awhile and play with a gritty style. But we are in no way a tough team, we have maximum four guys who can push other teams around and play a tough game.

JM is using the advantages he has on our team which are speed and goaltending. This is why he has applied a system in which we play a great defensive game to support our goalie. We have one of the best transition games in the league, so the defensive style suits us because we can easily transition and create good offense with our speedy forwards.

We are a small team, we don't even get beat up that often.... So there really should be a lot less whining about the toughness of this team and more about how there has been no effort in recent games from the PLAYERS. It isn't the coaches fault.
10/10

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03-26-2011, 03:50 PM
  #124
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I like Martin. To me, his one weakness is that he overlooks having that one player in his line-up who could tilt the balance in a rough and tumble smash mouth game against the likes of the Flyers and Bruins. Not saying the Habs couldn't beat them in a play-off series. Just saying, the Habs would be really banged up once it was over.

I keep thinking back to the 60's Habs with Ferguson, and the 70's Habs with Bouchard.

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03-26-2011, 04:01 PM
  #125
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My problem with Martin is that he asks too much of rookies, and not enough of veterans. He's just too harsh on the likes of AK, GL, SK, Subban, Eller, Desharnais, etc. At the smallest sign of struggle, indiscipline or mistake, they get the harshest punishments. They almost never get opportunities to do anything with other talented players while guys like Gomez never get punished in the slightest. I understand why he does nothing about Gomez, but I wish he was a bit more lenient with certain young players. To me, they are the future of this team, the potential key to a stanley cup, Gomez isn't, he never was and never will be. I just feel Martin is trying to extend his own shelf life and that rubs me the wrong way. I don't care about Martin, I care about the habs.

However, I can't argue about the results he gets. Clearly, he understands how to manage egos and knows who has power.

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