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Old
03-25-2011, 07:48 PM
  #51
ltrangerfan
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So....

Ate these the players who currently have the confidence of the coaching staff?

In no particular order:

Dubi
Cally
Gabs
AA
Boyle
Prust
Feds
Prospal

Is Stepan #9?

Avy's
EC
Zucco
Wolski

All fighting for a spot?

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
IMO Avery responded well last time he was scratched when he got in against the Islanders...but canceled out any good he did with his late penalty and bought himself a seat back in the press box. I'll be really surprised if Torts doesn't give Avery another game or two before the season ends...he's the type of guy that can really help in a playoff series when he's under control (think about when we beat Atlanta). He can also be a huge detriment when he's not (Washington) and I'm sure Torts will not be going to Avery in crunch time of a game no matter what.
Hahah I can't believe people still respond to chosen when he comments on Avery.

It's like trying to talk to a whiny ex-girlfriend about the boy who broke their heart.

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The main issues with Zuccarello are what I've been trying to say since he was called up.

He needs to improve his skating and he needs to get stronger.

He has great hands and vision and a decent shot. But if he can't improve his skating and strength he will never make it in the NHL with the size and speed of the game.

Also fatigue as well IMO. They play what, 50-odd games in SEL. Zucca has played 40 with Rangers plus AHL as well.

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Old
03-25-2011, 09:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Hahah I can't believe people still respond to chosen when he comments on Avery.

It's like trying to talk to a whiny ex-girlfriend about the boy who broke their heart.
A very cogent argument as to why Avery should be in the lineup. Rangers win and play better after he sat because he behaved like an idiot. Again. Thanks for pointing out why some Avery fans will never admit the truth about him. Like watching a jilted lover pining for his girlfriend to come back. How sad.

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Old
03-25-2011, 11:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
A very cogent argument as to why Avery should be in the lineup. Rangers win and play better after he sat because he behaved like an idiot. Again. Thanks for pointing out why some Avery fans will never admit the truth about him. Like watching a jilted lover pining for his girlfriend to come back. How sad.

So your argument is based on a 4-5 game period where Avery has been scratched?

That's almost as ridiculous as people posting the record of the Rangers after he joined the team from L.A.

I'd have more respect for you if you just came out and stated how you don't like the guy.

For a 4th liner, who can play up when needed, he's fine. That's all he's ever been. And he's been more than fine at it during his tenure here.

Whatever he did to break your heart is between you and him.

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Old
03-26-2011, 12:54 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I cant agree with this completely.

I think hes had some very good backchecking moments breaking up plays at key times. I think were he's having problems is general positioning against teams with a lot of speed and creative players, on the wall in the offensive zone, and getting shots to the net.

Hes starting to try and get a little too cute out there. Its tough for a smaller player to battle night in and night out but thats what it takes in this league. His heart is there, no doubt. But he is still developing and learning this system and league - dont forget that. Hes got a ways to go.
Actually, it sounds like we're in complete agreement.

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03-26-2011, 03:39 AM
  #57
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I have to put a big question mark at the coach's decisions in many situations. Wolski - Stepan - Mats Zuccarello line was the most creative line. Tortorella often talk about the young guys need to build confidence, and he thinks they get it when they perform on the ice. But why the hell did he mess with the lines when they did well. Why did MZA get less time on the ice when he did very well?

Tortorella think too advanced when the simplest solution is the best option. I think MZA is the right player for NYR but I do not think Tortorella is the right coach for MZA.

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Old
03-26-2011, 07:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
So your argument is based on a 4-5 game period where Avery has been scratched?

That's almost as ridiculous as people posting the record of the Rangers after he joined the team from L.A.

I'd have more respect for you if you just came out and stated how you don't like the guy.

For a 4th liner, who can play up when needed, he's fine. That's all he's ever been. And he's been more than fine at it during his tenure here.

Whatever he did to break your heart is between you and him.
My argument is based on the fact that aside from his first partial stint season with us, he has been mostly useless, and often worse. That is why I don't like him. He totally lost me in that Washington series where he was as detrimental to a team as any player I have ever seen in any sport.

As to gaining your respect, why should I care? You never can give an argument as to why he is valuable other than he stood in front of Brodeur and his antics at other times.

The reason guys like Callahan are loved universally by the fanbase is because they bring it every night. That is what most fans profess to love the most and respect the most in a player. Avery is the opposite. He brings it every once in a while and those that love him then crow about it, never understanding the irony of their argument.

If he is lucky enough to dress today and plays well, his fans will scream about how great he is and offer the game as proof, while the rest of us will shake our heads and wonder why he can't do that every game.

By the way, after laughing at someone for responding to me, you did the same. More irony.

As to your fascination with trying to make this some sort of sexual thing for me, I can only wonder what issues criticizing Avery raises in your feelings towards Avery.

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Old
03-26-2011, 09:20 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
My argument is based on the fact that aside from his first partial stint season with us, he has been mostly useless, and often worse. That is why I don't like him. He totally lost me in that Washington series where he was as detrimental to a team as any player I have ever seen in any sport.

As to gaining your respect, why should I care? You never can give an argument as to why he is valuable other than he stood in front of Brodeur and his antics at other times.

The reason guys like Callahan are loved universally by the fanbase is because they bring it every night. That is what most fans profess to love the most and respect the most in a player. Avery is the opposite. He brings it every once in a while and those that love him then crow about it, never understanding the irony of their argument.

If he is lucky enough to dress today and plays well, his fans will scream about how great he is and offer the game as proof, while the rest of us will shake our heads and wonder why he can't do that every game.

By the way, after laughing at someone for responding to me, you did the same. More irony.

As to your fascination with trying to make this some sort of sexual thing for me, I can only wonder what issues criticizing Avery raises in your feelings towards Avery.

I think the problem is that if Avery isn't on the score sheet (which he isn't going to be consistently, based on the type of player he is, his amount of ice time, and his history that proves such) then people like you say that he's worthless.

When Avery plays a solid fourth line game, forechecking, creating chances for linemates, it's apparently worthless in his detractors eyes because there's not points to show for it. Which to me equates to the fact that they just don't like the guy, or expect him to be a consistent point producer (something he hasn't been ever in his career, other than his early stint here because of the linemates/ice time he received...funny how that works)

So to me, the only real argument is do people expect more than they should, or do they not like him? In most cases it's both.

I don't think there's any doubt he could help the Step-Zucca line, but even if he plays they'll probably get 7 minutes of even strength time, and when that line doesn't have a goal or an assist people like you will chirp in with comments about it.

In your case, it always seems that your negativity revolves more around the fact that people like him and you can't understand why. That's a you problem.

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Old
03-26-2011, 10:22 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I think the problem is that if Avery isn't on the score sheet (which he isn't going to be consistently, based on the type of player he is, his amount of ice time, and his history that proves such) then people like you say that he's worthless.

When Avery plays a solid fourth line game, forechecking, creating chances for linemates, it's apparently worthless in his detractors eyes because there's not points to show for it. Which to me equates to the fact that they just don't like the guy, or expect him to be a consistent point producer (something he hasn't been ever in his career, other than his early stint here because of the linemates/ice time he received...funny how that works)

So to me, the only real argument is do people expect more than they should, or do they not like him? In most cases it's both.

I don't think there's any doubt he could help the Step-Zucca line, but even if he plays they'll probably get 7 minutes of even strength time, and when that line doesn't have a goal or an assist people like you will chirp in with comments about it.

In your case, it always seems that your negativity revolves more around the fact that people like him and you can't understand why. That's a you problem.

I don't care how many points he gets.

I care that he often is invisible and at other times, stupid.

If you are saying that he is an okay fourth liner, I have no problem with that. The problem is that he has often gotten 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line minutes, which he clearly has wasted.

The amount of love shown for an okay fourth liner is ridiculous, especially considering how incredibly inconsistent he is.

Do you deny that he is insanely inconsistent? Is the cause lack of effort? What else could be the cause?

The problem with Avery is that he is far more the entertainer than the effective hockey player. That is why he has been hated by previous teammates. How many players have ever been run out of town by his teammates? That is what happened in Dallas.

Supposedly, a player or two hated him in L.A. I believe it was Dustin Brown, but I'm not sure it was him. There were also rumors of internal strife in Detroit around him.

Telling me he is beloved here by his teammates, may or may not be true. That is the type of stuff that is usually internally suppressed. That is what makes what happened to him in Dallas so extraordinary.

Yes, I don't like him. Why is that such a personal issue to you? Lots of people incessantly post about how much they hate Redden and Drury. Do you ***** and moan at them, too? Drury is a far better player than Avery could ever hope to be, yet he is regularly skewered.

What is it about crtiticizing Avery that drives you so over-the-edge?

Bottom line remains: Is he inconsistent or not? If yes, why, in your opinion? If you think he plays a consistent game than I have no problem saying that you are 100% wrong.

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Old
03-26-2011, 10:47 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I don't care how many points he gets.

I care that he often is invisible and at other times, stupid.

If you are saying that he is an okay fourth liner, I have no problem with that. The problem is that he has often gotten 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line minutes, which he clearly has wasted.

The amount of love shown for an okay fourth liner is ridiculous, especially considering how incredibly inconsistent he is.

Do you deny that he is insanely inconsistent? Is the cause lack of effort? What else could be the cause?

The problem with Avery is that he is far more the entertainer than the effective hockey player. That is why he has been hated by previous teammates. How many players have ever been run out of town by his teammates? That is what happened in Dallas.

Supposedly, a player or two hated him in L.A. I believe it was Dustin Brown, but I'm not sure it was him. There were also rumors of internal strife in Detroit around him.

Telling me he is beloved here by his teammates, may or may not be true. That is the type of stuff that is usually internally suppressed. That is what makes what happened to him in Dallas so extraordinary.

Yes, I don't like him. Why is that such a personal issue to you? Lots of people incessantly post about how much they hate Redden and Drury. Do you ***** and moan at them, too? Drury is a far better player than Avery could ever hope to be, yet he is regularly skewered.

What is it about crtiticizing Avery that drives you so over-the-edge?

Bottom line remains: Is he inconsistent or not? If yes, why, in your opinion? If you think he plays a consistent game than I have no problem saying that you are 100% wrong.

We've gone over this a million times in numerous threads about Avery, but when you've got a coach who didn't like you before he met you, limited minutes, and a red X on your back from officials, it's hard to be consistent.

His second stint on Broadway hasn't been great. This year he's been disappointing. I could still argue many reasons why (again, the coach being a big part of that and how obvious it is Avery tries to do too much when he actually gets a chance, and how that doesn't fly with the whole officials treating him differently thing) but at the end of the day he still has had an inconsistent season. I just don't understand the constant sarcastic comments and going after anyone who says anything as little as they'd like to see him back in the lineup.

The problem with your hatred for Avery is it affects your opinion on it. That much is clear to anyone who reads anything you say. He's not Ryan Hollweg. And yet, every comment you make about him you treat him as such. That's why you not liking him matters. It's a waste of time for everyone to read snarky comments anytime they bring the guy up.

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Old
03-26-2011, 11:20 AM
  #62
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Old
03-26-2011, 12:58 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
That entire line (Wolski-Stepan-Zuccarello) hasn't been producing lately. Also, clever title.
Because Tort cut their icetime significantly.

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03-26-2011, 02:26 PM
  #64
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Because Tort cut their icetime significantly.
I guess that didnt happen for any reason whatsoever

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Old
03-26-2011, 02:48 PM
  #65
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Because Tort cut their icetime significantly.
thats what happens when you play like crap. MZA has been pretty craptastic for a while now, even when he scores his goals of late it seems like they are meaningless goals. I just don't know if MZA is built for Rangers hockey. I think he may be more suited for a team like Tampa or something. Rangers are a boards team, that's how they play. they are not a transition team, they are a pressure up the ice, play it safe, take the boards away, win 1 on 1 battles kinda team. MZA almost never wins 1 on 1 battles. really all hes good for right now are shootouts.

ive soured on him considerably. he tries, its not like hes lazy or something..he just doesnt have any strength to win those battles. if he was a faster player he could gain separation and play the transition game a bit better, but he doesnt have the speed either.

hes a guy thats built for the large rinks, with lots of time and space to work with, he can pick apart other teams with his obvious talent. but in this rink, with so little time, i just dont see it happening in this kind of a system.

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03-26-2011, 03:38 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I guess that didnt happen for any reason whatsoever
a bunch of players returned from IR and Tortorella' poor decision to limit their icetime.

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03-26-2011, 03:41 PM
  #67
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The way Bruins manhandled us tonight, I don't see how zuccarello would've gotten many minutes this game..

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03-26-2011, 03:50 PM
  #68
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a bunch of players returned from IR and Tortorella' poor decision to limit their icetime.
Yeah, this team has been performing terribly since this happened.

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03-26-2011, 03:52 PM
  #69
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a bunch of players returned from IR and Tortorella' poor decision to limit their icetime.
Really, poor decision, because the last time i checked the rangers were 8-1-1 in their last ten. Pretty damn good record if you ask me. But maybe he should be playing guys who haven't been producing more

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03-26-2011, 04:47 PM
  #70
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He needs to improve his skating. I've been saying it all season.

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03-26-2011, 06:34 PM
  #71
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Zuccarello averaging 0,55 points pr. game = not satisfying (22/40)
Stepan avergaing 0,54 pr. game = success (41/76)

And haveeven averaging icetime pr. game lower than Stepan. I guess Zuccarello really must suck when it comes to defense work

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03-26-2011, 07:55 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
MZA almost never wins 1 on 1 battles.
I think the exact opposite is true. Especially in the offensive zone, MZA has been winning most 1 on 1 situations.

The problem with that line is not just MZA's performance. Stepan has cooled off and especially Wolski has been completely unproductive offensively. The whole line has spent too much time behind the net and on the boards cycling the puck around pointlessly.

Both Stepan and Zuccarello has been playing better while on different lines. I would say that Torts should shuffle the lines a bit but the other lines are performing pretty well.

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Old
03-27-2011, 06:56 AM
  #73
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Bothers me when people get down on this kid.

His numbers don't warrant any reason to be down on him.

His work ethic doesn't warrant any reason to be down on him.

And lets not forget, everyone keeps pointing out that he is a Rookie.
Zucc is not just a rookie, he's playing his FIRST season in North America with a total of 40 NHL games under his belt.

I'll start judging whether the kid will stick long term or not at the end of next year, not near the end of a successful rookie season

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03-27-2011, 06:57 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
We've gone over this a million times in numerous threads about Avery, but when you've got a coach who didn't like you before he met you, limited minutes, and a red X on your back from officials, it's hard to be consistent.

His second stint on Broadway hasn't been great. This year he's been disappointing. I could still argue many reasons why (again, the coach being a big part of that and how obvious it is Avery tries to do too much when he actually gets a chance, and how that doesn't fly with the whole officials treating him differently thing) but at the end of the day he still has had an inconsistent season. I just don't understand the constant sarcastic comments and going after anyone who says anything as little as they'd like to see him back in the lineup.

The problem with your hatred for Avery is it affects your opinion on it. That much is clear to anyone who reads anything you say. He's not Ryan Hollweg. And yet, every comment you make about him you treat him as such. That's why you not liking him matters. It's a waste of time for everyone to read snarky comments anytime they bring the guy up.

What you have said about my opinions of Avery would be fair if you stepped into the endless bashing threads surrounding Drury and Redden and offered up similar opinions. I don't think you have done that. If you have, than I am wrong.

So, obviously it is not my behavior that causes you distress. It is about your personal feelings about Avery. You don't like when he is criticized. I get it. You're a fan of his.

Redden and Drury have taken ten times the amount of hate here and never did anything close to as bad to their team. Why aren't you similarly outraged over the hate towards them?

I will never be able to forgive him for what he did in that Washington series. It was absolutely inexcusable to me. That alone ensured that Tortorella would never like him or totally trust him. You earn trust and Avery had a chance and blew it. Before that I was fine with him.

I think he has wasted the talent to have a far better career than he has had. In my opinion, he is easily good enough to be a decent 3rd line NHL player, but has made himself a fringe sideshow, for whatever reason.

On the other hand, his antics have created a legion of fans and given him a salary far beyond his worth, so maybe Avery is more of an example of modern day sports than anything else.

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03-27-2011, 07:11 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by KenGuru View Post
Zuccarello averaging 0,55 points pr. game = not satisfying (22/40)
Stepan avergaing 0,54 pr. game = success (41/76)

And haveeven averaging icetime pr. game lower than Stepan. I guess Zuccarello really must suck when it comes to defense work
Not trying to disagree here, but there's a lot more to the game than stats. Compare MAZ/Steps overall game, and it's quite different.

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