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Phil Kessel?

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:15 AM
  #26
Vitto79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
this place......i swear
I know the guy scored 42 goals last yr people. Sure this is an off yr but you don't throw away a true sniper. I want to see a Ricahrds/Gaborik/Whoever 1st line which makes the Pack Line a deadly 2nd unit. That coupled with the F depth and youngsters in the systems means a bright future

you don't trade a guy like Gaborik

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03-25-2011, 10:19 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
If you think Gabby is frustrating to watch then you will probably projectile vomit while watching kessel
pretty much

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:56 AM
  #28
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I don't think it's as bad as some are making it out to be, but I wouldn't do it.

If Gaborik doesnt have a 30+ goal season next year and this was offered to me, I'd think harder about it, but right now, it seems like too much to give up.

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03-25-2011, 11:00 AM
  #29
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Oh boy, if you think Gaborik disappears in games the last person you'd want to swap him for would be Kessel.

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03-25-2011, 11:04 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Oh boy, if you think Gaborik disappears in games the last person you'd want to swap him for would be Kessel.
yea, but Kessel will do it for 2million cheaper.

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Old
03-25-2011, 12:33 PM
  #31
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I'm gonna go with no.

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Old
03-25-2011, 12:48 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I know the guy scored 42 goals last yr people. Sure this is an off yr but you don't throw away a true sniper. I want to see a Ricahrds/Gaborik/Whoever 1st line which makes the Pack Line a deadly 2nd unit. That coupled with the F depth and youngsters in the systems means a bright future

you don't trade a guy like Gaborik
This.

And you don't trade a good locker room guy like Gaborik for a guy like Kessel who has had the term of cancer attached to him in more than one way, neither of them being good.

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Old
03-25-2011, 01:28 PM
  #33
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So here's just a couple of thoughts about this. I don't think it is as bad as some of the people are making it out to be.

The Kessel Pro's:
Elite skater
True sniper
23 years old
Cheaper cap hit
Healthier than Gaborik <--Even with the Cancer.
In adding him, the Rangers get younger. They don't lose speed as Kessel is probably as fast as Gaborik is, and in term of recent production you pretty much get the same guy.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

The Kessel Con's:
Heard from a reliable source that he battled addiction in Boston and was the main reason he was moved. Lot's of places to hide in NY and lots of distractions for people that aren't good with self control. <--I have no idea if this is still true today.

Dissapears for lenghts of time

Might not top out as high offesively

__________________________________________________ _____________________

At the end of the day, if I was GM and knew 100% that his health was ok in regards to the cancer and that his his addiction if true was contained...Then I think Kessel at 5.4 mil for the next 3 years over Gaborik at 7.5 mil for the next three years. I would pull the trigger and not look back.









An all USA top 6 to me is appealing.

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Old
03-25-2011, 01:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Kessel has never scored more than 60 points and is a waste defensively. Even with Gaborik missing 20 games he'll still give you as much offensive production as Kessel over the course of the season, and he's at least average in his own end. And of course, when healthy Gabby is one of the most dangerous players in the world for an opponent.

Toronto would be fools not to jump at such a deal, and the Rangers would be idiots to do so.
Thats a tough one, by Kessel crap play when the Leafs are trying to make a run, i would say no. If he showed the same level of play he did for 2-3 games after him and wilson talks than its a def yes simply because of how fragile Gaborik is. I mean Gabs is more complete player but Kessel is imo a better sniper. When it comes down to it the two are very very even in value and Kessel might get the edge because of age.


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Old
03-25-2011, 01:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
The Kessel Con's:
Heard from a reliable source that he battled addiction in Boston and was the main reason he was moved. Lot's of places to hide in NY and lots of distractions for people that aren't good with self control. <--I have no idea if this is still true today.
.
Addiction? I think this is the first time anyone has ever said anything about Kessel and addiction. Toronto is not a small city that lacks drugs either, if he had a problem it would be evident. What was he addicted to, cancer medication?

This trade wouldn't happen simply because of the TOR - BOS was such a big deal for Burke. It's also a bit of a lateral move, Gaborik is more talented but Kessel is a work in progress who's being pushed to adjust to more of a 2 way game. Basically they serve the same purpose, but Kessel is younger and Gaborik is more talented.

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03-25-2011, 01:57 PM
  #36
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I totally hate the idea of trading Gabby for Kessel. In fact, I want no part of Kessel -- he has all the tools except the one on top of his shoulders.

There are a couple of people on this board who are way to quick to be down on Gaborik. Sure he's having an off-year, but he's only one season removed from 42 goals and 86 points in 76 games. Those are significantly better numbers than Kessel's ever produced (I don't think we'll ever see Kessel break 80 points -- 40 goals maybe, but he doesn't set up his teammates). A lot of scorers have a bad season and bounce back. There is every chance that Gaborik comes back with 30+ goals and 70+ points next season, in which case this season will just look like an aberration.

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Old
03-25-2011, 03:32 PM
  #37
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why does either team want to do this?

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Old
03-25-2011, 09:14 PM
  #38
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valence View Post
Would you guys trade gaborik for phil kessel?

I think the rangers have to add another player but gaborik's play is so frustrating(too much coasting) and sometimes when i watch the leafs play i get the same feeling watching kessel play. Very streaky and crappy defensively but much younger(23). Even when the leafs are playing, he has only scored 1 goal in the last 10 games. You guys can shoot down the thread but hey i felt like starting something. update: he scored tonight 'gainst colorado in a 4-3 leafs win.
I stopped reading after that. While Phil may be a few years younger then Gabby, he has yet to have a season as impressive as Gaboriks.

Its like the old family guy episode. Pick the mystery box or the boat? Ill take mystery box because it could be a boat!

When Kessel has a 45 goal season then well talk.

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Old
03-25-2011, 09:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Kessel has never scored more than 60 points and is a waste defensively. Even with Gaborik missing 20 games he'll still give you as much offensive production as Kessel over the course of the season, and he's at least average in his own end. And of course, when healthy Gabby is one of the most dangerous players in the world for an opponent.

Toronto would be fools not to jump at such a deal, and the Rangers would be idiots to do so.
That makes all the difference for me. Kessel can't take over a game like Gaborik can IMO. He is an absolute monster when healthy. This team needs another great scorer in addition to Gaborik, not at the expense of him. Moving him for another scorer is just lateral movement or a downgrade.

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:33 PM
  #40
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Gaborik

Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
That makes all the difference for me. Kessel can't take over a game like Gaborik can IMO. He is an absolute monster when healthy. This team needs another great scorer in addition to Gaborik, not at the expense of him. Moving him for another scorer is just lateral movement or a downgrade.
Gabby is no doubt a game breaker, but IMO he is not the type of player that can take over a game and domiante for shifts on end, ala Jagr. He takes advatage of opportunities more than creates them. Jags was not nearly the player he was on the Pens in NY, even the year he put up 123 points, but any time he was on the ice he had the puck on his stick or someone on his line did. Gaborik on the other hand needs players to get him the puck in space or when he creates space on his own, has a hard time feeding the puck to others. However, Gaborik has a release that not many have ever seen in the NHL and that is where he scores the majority of his points, off the rush....

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:44 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
So here's just a couple of thoughts about this. I don't think it is as bad as some of the people are making it out to be.

The Kessel Pro's:
Elite skater
True sniper
23 years old
Cheaper cap hit
Healthier than Gaborik <--Even with the Cancer.
In adding him, the Rangers get younger. They don't lose speed as Kessel is probably as fast as Gaborik is, and in term of recent production you pretty much get the same guy.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

The Kessel Con's:
Heard from a reliable source that he battled addiction in Boston and was the main reason he was moved. Lot's of places to hide in NY and lots of distractions for people that aren't good with self control. <--I have no idea if this is still true today.

Dissapears for lenghts of time

Might not top out as high offesively

__________________________________________________ _____________________

At the end of the day, if I was GM and knew 100% that his health was ok in regards to the cancer and that his his addiction if true was contained...Then I think Kessel at 5.4 mil for the next 3 years over Gaborik at 7.5 mil for the next three years. I would pull the trigger and not look back.









An all USA top 6 to me is appealing.
What addiction?

You can't just make things up like that and have people believe that they're true. Search "Phil Kessel addiction" on Google and this thread is the only relevant thing that comes up. In markets like Toronto and Boston, do you really think something like this would be kept secret from everyone? And do you think that Burke would have invested so much in him if that had been the case? He signed in Toronto because Boston wasn't willing to offer him as much as he wanted. The only health concerns with him have been cancer and a shoulder injury that caused him to miss training camp and the start of last season.

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Old
03-25-2011, 10:55 PM
  #42
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If only he was a center...

Kreider-Kessel-Gaborik...fastest line in the NHL? .

Seriously though, I think Kessel is underrated a lot, but I still think Gaborik is the vastly better player. Only reason to take Kessel over Gabs is that he's only 23. Kessel also has the locker room cancer trait thrown at him, which is not a good sign for such a young guy.

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Old
03-25-2011, 11:36 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
At the end of the day, if I was GM and knew 100% that his health was ok in regards to the cancer and that his his addiction if true was contained...Then I think Kessel at 5.4 mil for the next 3 years over Gaborik at 7.5 mil for the next three years. I would pull the trigger and not look back.
FYI he had testicular cancer and was declared cancer free a week after they announced he had cancer, presumably having the infected testicle surgically removed....

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Old
03-25-2011, 11:42 PM
  #44
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Leaf fans wouldn't do this deal either. Sure Gaborik is a better player then Kessel, but his cap hit and injury problems are a huge turnoff.

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Old
03-26-2011, 08:41 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
What's the point of comparing Kessel to Cally or Dubi when it would be Gaborik that we're trading? Nothing you said here changes the fact that we'd be trading a superior player for an inferior one.
If you read my post you would have seen in the first two lines that I said I wouldn't trade Gaborik for Kessel straight up.
I used Dubi and Cally as examples because people keep calling Kessel a lazy bum. Well that makes him a lazy bum with enough talent to outscore our hardest working players on our roster that are also pretty talented.
23 year old 30 goal scorers that need to add to their overall game are not horrible additions to make, especially when the player leaving has a career of healthy issues and a 7 million dollar cap hit.

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Old
03-26-2011, 09:09 AM
  #46
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In addition, I don't think Toronto's path right now is to trade a 23 year old for an unhealthy, nearly 30 year old player. They are building their team. Not making a run for the cup anytime soon.

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Old
03-26-2011, 02:44 PM
  #47
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You can't just make things up like that and have people believe that they're true. Search "Phil Kessel addiction" on Google and this thread is the only relevant thing that comes up. In markets like Toronto and Boston, do you really think something like this would be kept secret from everyone?
Never heard anything on this but to answer your question, I think it's quite possible... There were some murmurings of a former Ranger (currently playing in Montreal) had some substance abuse issues while with the team.... When Fleury was playing for the Rangers, were the fans aware of his substance abuse? I think it's something you can definitely keep 'off the record'... Not like a member of the media is going to get his/her hands on undeniable proof of substance abuse.... Any 2nd hand information would not be credible enough to print in a paper.

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Old
03-26-2011, 04:18 PM
  #48
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The only reason why Kessel has ever gotten a bad rap is because of the market he currently plays in. If Gaborik played in Toronto, he'd be thrown in jail for all the games he "disappears" from. And dont get me started on the breakway/shootout problems.

That being said, Kessel has yet to hit 40 and 80 so I'll stick with Gabs

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Old
03-26-2011, 04:44 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
The only reason why Kessel has ever gotten a bad rap is because of the market he currently plays in. If Gaborik played in Toronto, he'd be thrown in jail for all the games he "disappears" from. And dont get me started on the breakway/shootout problems.

That being said, Kessel has yet to hit 40 and 80 so I'll stick with Gabs
They weren't exactly crying when he left Boston, either. Another tough market, I know, but the suggestion in this thread is to pick him up for New York -- not exactly a soft town.

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03-26-2011, 05:12 PM
  #50
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Quote:
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They weren't exactly crying when he left Boston, either. Another tough market, I know, but the suggestion in this thread is to pick him up for New York -- not exactly a soft town.
True, but in Boston they recieved a kings ransom for him, Two first round picks as well as a second, from a team expected to finish in the bottom 5 of the league, while Kessel was still a rookie and it was unknown if he's continue to score goals at a 30 per year pace.

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