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#73: Penguins @ Flyers - Thursday, Mar. 24, 2011 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:36 PM
  #501
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Timonen can carry the Flyers defense. Carle can not.

There isn't much to debate there. It's just hard fact. If Carle gets injured right now, it's no big deal. If Kimmo goes down, the defense is crippled.

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03-25-2011, 09:23 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Timonen can carry the Flyers defense. Carle can not.

There isn't much to debate there. It's just hard fact. If Carle gets injured right now, it's no big deal. If Kimmo goes down, the defense is crippled.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Oh, and congrats on being the 500th post on this thread

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03-25-2011, 09:32 PM
  #503
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Hopefully we don't have to see this in the playoffs....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=557213

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03-25-2011, 09:33 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Timonen can carry the Flyers defense. Carle can not.

There isn't much to debate there. It's just hard fact. If Carle gets injured right now, it's no big deal. If Kimmo goes down, the defense is crippled.
Be fair. If Carle gets hurt it's a really big deal right now. Let's not slight Carle just to make the point about Timonen.

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03-26-2011, 12:59 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
This is one of the most ignorant statements I've seen here. It shows you have ZERO understanding of the difference between these two players.

Eric Desjardins carried the Flyers defense while being dragged down by having to carry useless Chris Therien for YEARS. In no way was his responsibilities the same as Timonen's. They are not comparable.
Your argument for the difference between the two of 'em is "Chris Therien"? Do you realize that isn't an argument about Rico and Timonen, it's an argument about who they are playing with? And, BTW, it isn't like Coburn has been mistaken for a Norris winner during his tenure here.

Here's a hint: if you're trying to make an argument about two things being different, don't rely on a third thing to make the point. That's like saying, Red and Blue are nothing alike: GREEN.

Point production: They're pretty much dead on the same for their career. So, pretty comparable there.

Defensive play: They are eerily similar in how they play D, largely relying on stick and body positioning over physical play. I'd say Timonen is slightly more physical, and Rico was slightly better with the stick.

Both are/were extremely good two-way D, just below the Norris class of their respective generations (with some cross-over there, of course).

So, actually, it's rather easy to make a quick comparison between the two with validity. Then again, I've already lost all respect for your opinion due to this drivel about Timonen, so who really cares?


Last edited by Jester: 03-26-2011 at 01:11 AM.
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03-26-2011, 01:00 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Be fair. If Carle gets hurt it's a really big deal right now. Let's not slight Carle just to make the point about Timonen.
This team could survive without Carle... Timonen going down for the playoffs would be disastrous.

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03-26-2011, 01:04 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Be fair. If Carle gets hurt it's a really big deal right now. Let's not slight Carle just to make the point about Timonen.
I don't underestimate the value of any of the dmen right now. But losing Timonen is a much greater blow than losing Carle.

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03-26-2011, 01:47 AM
  #508
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LOL. I see Shotscore wont let it go. hes losing this arguement badly again.

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03-26-2011, 01:58 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Also, if we're going by nhl statistics, perhaps you should take a peek and see who they have as the higher rated defenseman. Carle is ahead of Timonen both overall and in real-time stats.
I had to pull this out... because it's simply beautiful.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app

So, when you first pull up the summary stats... it sorts by points. So, Matt Carle comes in at the top of the list. If you click on "G", then Meszaros comes in 1st, and SUDDENLY Timonen, as if by magic, is ahead of Carle (he only has 1 goal).

But, wait, it gets better.

When you first get to real-time stats, it is sorted by... GAMES PLAYED... and ALPHABETICAL. Timonen and Carle have played the same number of games, but, not shockingly, Carle comes before Timonen in the alphabet.

Sort by hits... Carle is essentially last.
Blocks... Timonen is 1st.
Missed Shots... Timonen is 1st (putting to bed the myth that he never shoots, btw)
Giveaways... MATT CARLE is on top once again!
Takeaways... Timonen is 1st.
...and, Timonen is leading the team in Shots for D.

So, once we take away Carle's alphabetic advantage over Timonen, he ends up leading in only one category of real-time stats... and that isn't one you want to lead the team in.

So, things to take away from this.

1) Stat spreadsheets aren't really presenting "rankings".
2) Apparently you've never dealt with a sortable spreadsheet before.

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03-26-2011, 02:22 AM
  #510
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^^^ game. set. match. ^^^^^

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03-26-2011, 03:57 AM
  #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I had to pull this out... because it's simply beautiful.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app

So, when you first pull up the summary stats... it sorts by points. So, Matt Carle comes in at the top of the list. If you click on "G", then Meszaros comes in 1st, and SUDDENLY Timonen, as if by magic, is ahead of Carle (he only has 1 goal).

But, wait, it gets better.

When you first get to real-time stats, it is sorted by... GAMES PLAYED... and ALPHABETICAL. Timonen and Carle have played the same number of games, but, not shockingly, Carle comes before Timonen in the alphabet.

Sort by hits... Carle is essentially last.
Blocks... Timonen is 1st.
Missed Shots... Timonen is 1st (putting to bed the myth that he never shoots, btw)
Giveaways... MATT CARLE is on top once again!
Takeaways... Timonen is 1st.
...and, Timonen is leading the team in Shots for D.

So, once we take away Carle's alphabetic advantage over Timonen, he ends up leading in only one category of real-time stats... and that isn't one you want to lead the team in.

So, things to take away from this.

1) Stat spreadsheets aren't really presenting "rankings".
2) Apparently you've never dealt with a sortable spreadsheet before.

This is when you just leave the forum entirely for a week or so man...there just isn't a way to come back from that.

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03-26-2011, 07:18 AM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I had to pull this out... because it's simply beautiful.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app

So, when you first pull up the summary stats... it sorts by points. So, Matt Carle comes in at the top of the list. If you click on "G", then Meszaros comes in 1st, and SUDDENLY Timonen, as if by magic, is ahead of Carle (he only has 1 goal).

But, wait, it gets better.

When you first get to real-time stats, it is sorted by... GAMES PLAYED... and ALPHABETICAL. Timonen and Carle have played the same number of games, but, not shockingly, Carle comes before Timonen in the alphabet.

Sort by hits... Carle is essentially last.
Blocks... Timonen is 1st.
Missed Shots... Timonen is 1st (putting to bed the myth that he never shoots, btw)
Giveaways... MATT CARLE is on top once again!
Takeaways... Timonen is 1st.
...and, Timonen is leading the team in Shots for D.

So, once we take away Carle's alphabetic advantage over Timonen, he ends up leading in only one category of real-time stats... and that isn't one you want to lead the team in.

So, things to take away from this.

1) Stat spreadsheets aren't really presenting "rankings".
2) Apparently you've never dealt with a sortable spreadsheet before.


Oh Jester. I love your pompous assery. And I mean that. Not meant as an insult at all.

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03-26-2011, 07:41 AM
  #513
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OMG are you serious? Shotscore hauled out official stats to prove a point and didn't realize the page's default was alphabetical order of last name? Brilliant!

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03-26-2011, 09:11 AM
  #514
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Take that week and figure out how to use the ******* quote button

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03-26-2011, 10:01 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by ChumpyG View Post


Oh Jester. I love your pompous assery. And I mean that. Not meant as an insult at all.
It only really comes out when it's well deserved (?).

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03-26-2011, 10:02 AM
  #516
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Just to state the obvious, there's a reason why Timonen makes twice as much as Carle. And "Homer overpayment" isn't the reason.

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03-26-2011, 11:51 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
OMG are you serious? Shotscore hauled out official stats to prove a point and didn't realize the page's default was alphabetical order of last name? Brilliant!
somewhere Shotscore is withering in a corner in the fetal position sucking his thumb mumbling "damn it, I got owned again on HF"

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03-26-2011, 01:32 PM
  #518
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Oh Jester. I love your pompous assery. And I mean that. Not meant as an insult at all.
I agree. That was awesome.

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Old
03-26-2011, 02:31 PM
  #519
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I'll just leave this funny article on Carle here that was on NHL.com this morning.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=557027

I chuckled at the part where OD says he just doesn't do anything wrong.

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03-26-2011, 06:38 PM
  #520
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Shouldn't have even needed numbers to establish that Timonen is better than Carle. To have said otherwise...speaks for itself.

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03-26-2011, 09:34 PM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Quote:
Your argument for the difference between the two of 'em is "Chris Therien"? Do you realize that isn't an argument about Rico and Timonen, it's an argument about who they are playing with? And, BTW, it isn't like Coburn has been mistaken for a Norris winner during his tenure here.

Here's a hint: if you're trying to make an argument about two things being different, don't rely on a third thing to make the point. That's like saying, Red and Blue are nothing alike: GREEN.

Point production: They're pretty much dead on the same for their career. So, pretty comparable there.

Defensive play: They are eerily similar in how they play D, largely relying on stick and body positioning over physical play. I'd say Timonen is slightly more physical, and Rico was slightly better with the stick.

Both are/were extremely good two-way D, just below the Norris class of their respective generations (with some cross-over there, of course).

So, actually, it's rather easy to make a quick comparison between the two with validity. Then again, I've already lost all respect for your opinion due to this drivel about Timonen, so who really cares?

Oh. My. God.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE.

Did you watch Eric Desjardins play for us? Yes or no? I watched almost every game he ever played for us.

Eric Desjardins had TO CARRY CHRIS THERIEN on his back on a nightly basis for YEARS. He was not only responsible for himself but had to carry Therien as well. Do you not understand this?

Desjardins responsibilities on the ice were different from Kimmo's. Mainly in the fact that he had much more. Desjardins was by himself, a one man island. Literally.

Take a look at some of the guys Desjardins had to work with. It's like a comedy show it's so bad.

Guys like an old, over the hill Paul Coffey. Karl Dykhuis. Dan McGillis. An old Kjell Samuelsson. Dave Babych.

If you put Eric Desjardins on this team where he can pair up with guys like Pronger, Coburn, Carle, Mez, the difference between his play and Timonen's would be startling. It would be like night and day.

You obviously don't comprehend this.

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03-26-2011, 09:41 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Quote:
I had to pull this out... because it's simply beautiful.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app

So, when you first pull up the summary stats... it sorts by points. So, Matt Carle comes in at the top of the list. If you click on "G", then Meszaros comes in 1st, and SUDDENLY Timonen, as if by magic, is ahead of Carle (he only has 1 goal).

But, wait, it gets better.

When you first get to real-time stats, it is sorted by... GAMES PLAYED... and ALPHABETICAL. Timonen and Carle have played the same number of games, but, not shockingly, Carle comes before Timonen in the alphabet.

Sort by hits... Carle is essentially last.
Blocks... Timonen is 1st.
Missed Shots... Timonen is 1st (putting to bed the myth that he never shoots, btw)
Giveaways... MATT CARLE is on top once again!
Takeaways... Timonen is 1st.
...and, Timonen is leading the team in Shots for D.

So, once we take away Carle's alphabetic advantage over Timonen, he ends up leading in only one category of real-time stats... and that isn't one you want to lead the team in.

So, things to take away from this.

1) Stat spreadsheets aren't really presenting "rankings".
2) Apparently you've never dealt with a sortable spreadsheet before.
What was the point of this Jester?

When did I ever say Matt Carle is better than Timonen?

The only reason I pulled up the stats that ranked Carle higher was because you said there was a "VAST GULF" between Timonen and Carle, Mez, and Coburn.

No one ever stated Carle was better than Timonen this entire thread so don't put words in my mouth.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 03-26-2011 at 10:34 PM.
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03-26-2011, 10:15 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Did you watch Eric Desjardins play for us? Yes or no? I watched almost every game he ever played for us.
Wait, what did you do?

Quote:
Eric Desjardins had TO CARRY CHRIS THERIEN on his back on a nightly basis for YEARS. He was not only responsible for himself but had to carry Therien as well. Do you not understand this?
Wait, Rico had to do what?

Quote:
Desjardins responsibilities on the ice were different from Kimmo's. Mainly in the fact that he had much more. Desjardins was by himself, a one man island. Literally.
Desjardins was a whole ****ing island? ****. Which cartographer mapped him?

Quote:
Take a look at some of the guys Desjardins had to work with. It's like a comedy show it's so bad.
Like this poster I've unfortunately become familiar with recently.

Quote:
If you put Eric Desjardins on this team where he can pair up with guys like Pronger, Coburn, Carle, Mez, the difference between his play and Timonen's would be startling. It would be like night and day.
I don't find the difference between night and day all that startling. I think it's kind of nice.

Quote:
You obviously don't comprehend this.
But, then again, maybe I'm just a simpleton. Have you thought of writing a book? You should write a book.

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03-26-2011, 10:28 PM
  #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
What was the point of this Jester?

When did I ever say Matt Carle is better than Timonen?

The only reason I pulled up the stats that ranked Carle higher was because you said there was a "VAST GULF" between Timonen and Carle, Mez, and Coburn.

No one ever stated Carle was better than Timonen this entire thread so don't put words in my mouth.

You'd be much better served at learning 6th grade reading comprehension skills.
You personally asked if there was anything that Timonen could do, that Carle, Coburn, and Mez couldnt do as well.

The answer: Timonen does everything better than those players, and at minimum, just as well.

It's seriously that simple... Just WATCH him play. Im a huge Rico fan. I love him. Timonen is just as imporant as he was. these are all facts. If you want to live in denial of such things, that's your choice.

Homer overpays a lot. Kimmo's contract is the only one I have NEVER had a problem with.

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03-26-2011, 10:32 PM
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
What was the point of this Jester?

When did I ever say Matt Carle is better than Timonen?

The only reason I pulled up the stats that ranked Carle higher was because you said there was a "VAST GULF" between Timonen and Carle, Mez, and Coburn.

No one ever stated Carle was better than Timonen this entire thread so don't put words in my mouth.

You'd be much better served at learning 6th grade reading comprehension skills.
Then you're apparently a horrible communicator, because everything you seemed to spew out in the past couple of days had nothing but people responding along the lines of "if you honestly think that, you must be deaf, dumb, and blind." You may be a pinball wizard for all we know.


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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
No hes not, but when you spew garbage that isnt true you are going to get called out.
Which btw you seem to do plenty of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
when you call out Kimmo Timonen for no reason and basically lie about it, there is no need to go through all your 150 posts and find out what you said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Timonen is hands down the team's MVP this year.

If you can't see the hockey sense that is oozing out of this guy then you're a lost cause.

Its absolutely unbelievable that a Flyers fan that watches this team regularly can shortchange what Timonen does out there like that. This guy is a short statured Eric Desjardins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer Rob View Post
The flyers have a lot of problems.....Kimmo Timonen is definitely not 1 of them so get a grip guy.
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still don't know how to mentally process the concept of Carle being better than Timonen.

Kimmo: absolutely reliable

Carle: Carle.
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Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
thanks for the lolz, ShotScore. they've made this loss a little less painful.
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I didn't know that 6.333 rounded to 7, thanks for the math lesson
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Originally Posted by DutchDennis View Post
one of the peculiar discussions I've read lately...Please...

If every other player on this team gave every shift as much as Timonen we did'nt have to worry as much as most of us do lately.
All responses to your post of Timonen not being consistant and because of that he's overpaid.

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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Good. Thought provoking insight is what makes this the best hockey board around--and what makes Flyers fans the most intelligent.
Regardless of your oozing sarcasm in this, there's a difference between "thought provoking" based on a smart observation, and a comment/opinion so dumb that I honestly hope you become sterile so that we can wipe you out of the gene pool.


Last edited by JLHockeyKnight: 03-26-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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