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Theoretically speaking: NFL lockout + NYR Stanley Cup = Hockey Renissance?

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03-27-2011, 12:27 AM
  #1
KingWantsCup
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Theoretically speaking: NFL lockout + NYR Stanley Cup = Hockey Renissance?

JUST THEORETICAL. I'm not saying we're definitely winning the cup this year. Save your pitch forks and torches for when Hank gets robbed of the Vezina.

Well if there was ever a time for hockey to take a stand, this is it. Guys, New York is the premiere city in the United States. Say what you will about any other major city, none of them top New York. Call it arrogant thinking, but I don't see how anyone could seriously think otherwise. With that said, the New York Rangers are holding a LOT of hockey power. An extremely well timed cup would skyrocket the attention this sport gets, and then it would be amplified with every game the NFL loses to the lockout. Just think about that situation for a moment. Really think about it. This is such an enormous opportunity. In theory, I believe our sport could be right up basketballs ass. Your thoughts?

Edit: I agree with many of you, an NBA lockout would be even better for hockey. I think an NFL lockout still helps hockey though.


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03-27-2011, 12:42 AM
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I mean yeah it would really help hockey out. I always laugh with my buddies that they will finally watch hockey games with me once their is a lock out, but it sucks that I am going to have to miss the Giants...... but I will give it up for hockey, no doubt

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03-27-2011, 12:53 AM
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I don't know where people get this idea that an NFL lockout would help hockey. The NFL is once a week. Hockey is on every night. Hockey's competition is basketball, not football.

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03-27-2011, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
JUST THEORETICAL. I'm not saying we're definitely winning the cup this year. Save your pitch forks and torches for when Hank gets robbed of the Vezina.

Well if there was ever a time for hockey to take a stand, this is it. Guys, New York is the premiere city in the United States. Say what you will about any other major city, none of them top New York. Call it arrogant thinking, but I don't see how anyone could seriously think otherwise. With that said, the New York Rangers are holding a LOT of hockey power. An extremely well timed cup would skyrocket the attention this sport gets, and then it would be amplified with every game the NFL loses to the lockout. Just think about that situation for a moment. Really think about it. This is such an enormous opportunity. In theory, I believe our sport could be right up basketballs ass. Your thoughts?
i hate to admit this but on a personal level i dont care one bit about the "popularity" of hockey in terms of the casual fan. most football fans disgust me. the casual fan stinks up football. i love the underdog aka hockey. i dont wanna have a conversation on what color shoe laces espn reported this player having and all that garbage. in my mind, hockey is all i really care about and sorry if i sound ignorant but i like living in my hockey bubble. i play/coach and was a ref. hockey is my bloodline nothing else. i want a cup but with that comes bandwagoners and if the nfl loses games to the lockout, boo hoo i dont care i lost 82 in 04-05.....i want their fans to feel the pain for all the criticism they put me thru

ps...looming NBA lockout too right??

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03-27-2011, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't know where people get this idea that an NFL lockout would help hockey. The NFL is once a week. Hockey is on every night. Hockey's competition is basketball, not football.
I somewhat agree. Football starts in September and ends in early February. Hockey starts in October and ends in June. So from October to February, they are in competition.

But, if the Rangers should somehow win the cup, all the excitement of that will be while the NFL wouldn't be playing anyway, so a potential lockout doesn't really affect that IMO. The only NFL thing that will be going on during NHL playoffs is the draft, and afaik, that is still going to happen.

Hockey is in more direct competition with basketball and baseball, simply because both are being played during the NHL playoffs.

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03-27-2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
i hate to admit this but on a personal level i dont care one bit about the "popularity" of hockey in terms of the casual fan. most football fans disgust me. the casual fan stinks up football. i love the underdog aka hockey. i dont wanna have a conversation on what color shoe laces espn reported this player having and all that garbage. in my mind, hockey is all i really care about and sorry if i sound ignorant but i like living in my hockey bubble. i play/coach and was a ref. hockey is my bloodline nothing else. i want a cup but with that comes bandwagoners and if the nfl loses games to the lockout, boo hoo i dont care i lost 82 in 04-05.....i want their fans to feel the pain for all the criticism they put me thru
ps...looming NBA lockout too right??
You know, that really isn't fair. You may be a hockey fan and don't care about football, but there are a LOT of people, like me, who are fans of both. The NHL lockout sucked bad. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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03-27-2011, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
JUST THEORETICAL. I'm not saying we're definitely winning the cup this year. Save your pitch forks and torches for when Hank gets robbed of the Vezina.

Well if there was ever a time for hockey to take a stand, this is it. Guys, New York is the premiere city in the United States. Say what you will about any other major city, none of them top New York. Call it arrogant thinking, but I don't see how anyone could seriously think otherwise. With that said, the New York Rangers are holding a LOT of hockey power. An extremely well timed cup would skyrocket the attention this sport gets, and then it would be amplified with every game the NFL loses to the lockout. Just think about that situation for a moment. Really think about it. This is such an enormous opportunity. In theory, I believe our sport could be right up basketballs ass. Your thoughts?
Well the NHL managed to F this up in 1994...I'm sure they would manage to do it again.

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03-27-2011, 08:39 AM
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I think the whole premise is nuts. The NHL is 4th among major sports in NY and the NFL doesn,t compete with Hockey.

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03-27-2011, 08:41 AM
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As long as the NFL draft is set to happen, and it is, it will still overshadow hockey.

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03-27-2011, 09:18 AM
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If the NFL and NBA both went on strike, I still think hockey will be ignored. Much like soccer, the game has never had wide spread popularity in the USA. The 1980 Olympics were going to change that. Gretzky to LA was going to change that. The Rangers winning the cup ect... Ticket prices are high enough as is, so I really don't need anyone else on the band wagon anyway. I kinda wish their were fewer fans like indoor lax. Buy one ticket, get 40 free...

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03-27-2011, 09:45 AM
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No, I just don't see it as some gigantic opportunity. football is a dumb sport that people love because they grew up on it, hockey isn't. Having a season in which football fans have nothing to watch on Sunday isn't going to make them become die hard Ranger fans.

it'll improve media coverage and ad revenue for the league probably but it won't change American culture.

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03-27-2011, 10:21 AM
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I don't want hockey to be more popular- whenever you meet a hockey fan chances are they're decently knowledgeable about the sport and their team. I find most other sports fans I meet are usually "casual" and not nearly as invested in their team. Of course there's hardcore fans for other sports, but I just think the true fan to casual fan ratio in hockey is way different.

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03-27-2011, 10:42 AM
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Hockey isn't a popular sport in the US, and a lock-out is not going to change that.

You have to take the NFL out of the equation, because it is only played once a week. Then there is the superbowl which racks up tons and tons of money... probably more than one Stanley cup series.

The NHL will never be able to compete with the MLB, which generates TONS and TONS of money. The Leafs, undoubtedly the most popular team value wise, brings in $187 million in revenue, they would rank 18th in revenue on Forbes list of MLB team value and revenueThe Yankees are worth $1700 million, while the highest NHL team is the Leafs at $505 million. The MLB team with the lowest value are the Pirates who rake in $304 million. They would be 5th on the NHL value list above the Bruins.

The only league in which the NHL has a chance to take over (in the US) is the NBA. The schedules are very very similar, most NBA and NHL teams share arenas, and it's played in the same season. I don't want to go off on a tangent of race here, but I would believe that the NBA is extremely popular among the black crowd in the US, the NHL is a predominately white sport.. that's as far as I am going to go in that regard. I do believe however, that NCAA basketball is gaining tons of ground on the NBA, perhaps that would greatly help the NHL, as more people turn away from the NBA to watch college hoops.

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03-27-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
I do believe however, that NCAA basketball is gaining tons of ground on the NBA, perhaps that would greatly help the NHL, as more people turn away from the NBA to watch college hoops.

Along those lines, I'm pretty sick of the NHL and its BS lock-out to keep ticket prices down. I love the World Juniors tourney as well as college hockey. I would gladly watch more of that stuff, especially if it was available in HD. The Frozen Four has been wonderful as it always is.

More and more NHL players believe they're "entitled" to millions of dollars and the game is worse off for it. The NHL has always been 15 yrs behind the NBA on that issue, but every yr it seems to get worse. When Alexei Yashin was rewarded for holding out, this league became a ticking time bomb.

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03-27-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I don't want hockey to be more popular- whenever you meet a hockey fan chances are they're decently knowledgeable about the sport and their team. I find most other sports fans I meet are usually "casual" and not nearly as invested in their team. Of course there's hardcore fans for other sports, but I just think the true fan to casual fan ratio in hockey is way different.
there is so little coverage in mainstream US media that you can't just turn on the TV and get into hockey, you have to want to get into it and find the coverage. That's something that I admire about the american hockey fan. The US sporting culture has so many different sports fighting for supremacy it's overwhelming. unlike here where there is a clear "hockey monopoly".

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03-27-2011, 11:42 AM
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In order for there to be a renaissance there must have been a time when hockey was king of NY. Aside from a few days in 1994, it is not a possible reality.

Hockey will always be the bottom of the public's perception in NY and that's just fine with me. If it ever becomes bigger, imagine how much tickets will cost and then understand that almost everyone here will be priced out of ever attending a game.


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03-27-2011, 11:57 AM
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Lol @ the veiled bigotry in this thread, hahaha. To the guy who said NBA is more popular than NHL bc of black ppl, LOL u know there are way more white people than black people in the US right???

I still like hockey better even though I have to share the sport w/ mostly morons IMO but I'll just dangle them and run with it...

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03-27-2011, 12:05 PM
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Wow....sorry maybe in the minds of Rangers fans but it will stop there. I don't see the rest of North America obsessing over hockey just because a team from New York won a cup, let alone preferring it over football.

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03-27-2011, 12:50 PM
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There is some merit to the premise, but it also relies on there being an NBA lockout.

Would hockey necessarily gain fans? No. BUT, the regional sports networks, ESPN, etc. would need to promote SOME sport. In that regard, the NHL and MLS would be given more time on air, more ad revenue, more exposure, etc. College baseball was an unexpected beneficary of the NHL lockout in 04-05. A lot of the regional networks in the mid-Atlantic and midwest had NO programming scheduled because the Caps, Hurricanes, Predators, Blues, among other teams weren't playing from February through early April. College baseball filled in the gaps. A lot of schools that never had any exposure were on TV, and it led to a slight increase in attendance.

College basketball is already maxed out on TV exposure. An NBA lockout isn't going to do anything for that sport TV wise. It might help ratings a little bit, but that's about it.

I actually went to the Bobcats - Knicks game here in Charlotte last night. I haven't been to an NBA game in probably 15 years. I just don't follow it that closely, but I have been a casual Knick "fan" forever. Not to be racist, because I abhor racism, but the culture at an NBA game is different. Everyone in the section we were in were black. I have no problem with that, just an observation. However, I had an interesting little conversation with the guy next to me. My daughter was having some trouble sitting or standing still; always wanting to go out (she's almost 3, although usually enjoys watching games). I apologized for her, and he said not to worry, as she was probably just disgusted with the Knicks. That brought a laugh and I told him that if it wasn't for MSG overly promoting the game during the Rangers game in the afternoon, we wouldn't have come. Found out that he was from NY, and followed the Rangers the way I follow the Knicks. His seat mates too. They don't really watch hockey, but know the Ranger roster and and about how they're doing in the standings. I'd have to wonder if the NBA was locked out, if people like this would turn on hockey and grow to love it?

As for the NFL. I'm a fan, but I don't play fantasy football. I don't give the NFL much attention past the Giants and to a lesser degree, the Panthers. I do know other people that their sports worlds revolve around the NFL. A lot of these people are so busy during the week, that they've made Sunday their relaxation day. I actually believe that this is why the NFL has gotten so big. Playing one day a week requires little investment of time outside of Sunday and the occassional Monday night. These people are just going to whine rather than start to follow other sports.

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03-27-2011, 03:46 PM
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Lol @ the veiled bigotry in this thread, hahaha. To the guy who said NBA is more popular than NHL bc of black ppl, LOL u know there are way more white people than black people in the US right???

I still like hockey better even though I have to share the sport w/ mostly morons IMO but I'll just dangle them and run with it...
Not agreeing with whoever said that, but look at it like this:

Okay, yes, there are more Caucasians than African Americans living in the USA, however I believe if you polled all of both races you would find that a MUCH larger majority of African Americans watch basketball than the amount of Caucasians who watch hockey.

Caucasians in America see baseball as their sport, not hockey, while most African Americans would probably agree that basketball is their sport, if they had to identify with one most closely. They have talented players in every sport, but predominantly in basketball.

So just because there are more Caucasians doesn't mean they're all hockey fans. It's probably a lot closer than you would think.

However, I'm not saying that is why the NBA is more popular, but if I had to bet on it I am willing to say the majority viewership of the NBA would be African American by a fair margin. Just like the majority viewership of hockey is Caucasian by a fair margin.

If you think that's racist, so be it. If the guy had said "Hockey is less popular because most average white Americans watch baseball or football, instead." would you still think he was being a bigot?

Anyway I digress. I think it would still draw in some new fans if the NFL locked out. Even if the Rangers don't win a cup. The NY media needs to talk about the Rangers more, more importantly. the fact that they get such little air-time compared to other major NY sports teams is criminal and a bigger reason they aren't as popular. Media plays a huge role in making ANYTHING popular.

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03-27-2011, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
JUST THEORETICAL. I'm not saying we're definitely winning the cup this year. Save your pitch forks and torches for when Hank gets robbed of the Vezina.

Well if there was ever a time for hockey to take a stand, this is it. Guys, New York is the premiere city in the United States. Say what you will about any other major city, none of them top New York. Call it arrogant thinking, but I don't see how anyone could seriously think otherwise. With that said, the New York Rangers are holding a LOT of hockey power. An extremely well timed cup would skyrocket the attention this sport gets, and then it would be amplified with every game the NFL loses to the lockout. Just think about that situation for a moment. Really think about it. This is such an enormous opportunity. In theory, I believe our sport could be right up basketballs ass. Your thoughts?
Here's the problem. You can't see the puck on tv. You can't really see the player on tv unless it's a close up shot. You can't really see how the play developed or where the mistakes are made unless you watch the replay or you're really into it or know and have played the game. It's too fast and too fluid for anything less than 1080p/HD on a big screen (at least a 50"-52") for casual fans to become real hardcore fans. Plus, like someone else mentioned it's not really competing with football unless it's in the same time slot, which only happens twice a week unless it's an afternoon game on Sunday (which don't happen until football is over). It's competition is basketball. Basketball is cheaper to play and easier to learn (maybe not easy to get good at but easier to learn none the less). The solution to becoming competitive? Make it cheaper learn and invest in HD so it's cheaper to watch...and the biggest thing. PUT THE DAMN GAMES ON TV! DON'T BLACK THEM OUT! Your teams are only competing against each other on the ice. On TV they should be promoting THE GAME, not THEMSELVES. More fans = more fans for all teams, NOT JUST THEIR OWN.


Last edited by Skrimpy: 03-27-2011 at 05:13 PM.
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03-27-2011, 05:34 PM
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Football is played more than once a week.
All day Sunday, Monday night, and thursdays are all dominated by football.
College is also all over the TV on Saturdays.

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03-27-2011, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
i hate to admit this but on a personal level i dont care one bit about the "popularity" of hockey in terms of the casual fan. most football fans disgust me. the casual fan stinks up football. i love the underdog aka hockey. i dont wanna have a conversation on what color shoe laces espn reported this player having and all that garbage. in my mind, hockey is all i really care about and sorry if i sound ignorant but i like living in my hockey bubble. i play/coach and was a ref. hockey is my bloodline nothing else. i want a cup but with that comes bandwagoners and if the nfl loses games to the lockout, boo hoo i dont care i lost 82 in 04-05.....i want their fans to feel the pain for all the criticism they put me thru

ps...looming NBA lockout too right??
Seriously? You want football to go away because some fans were mean to you? How old are you?

I don't get why love for one sport means vitriol for another for some people. Baseball, football, and hockey are all on equal footing in terms of how much I enjoy them. I really don't care about basketball. But I don't feel any animosity towards the game or its fans. Why would I?

The irony is that all the fans who complain about how hockey doesn't get its due credit are usually the same people to mock anyone who tries to follow it but doesn't know as much about it as the diehards. It's sport snobbery and it's really childish.

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03-27-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
In order for there to be a renaissance there must have been a time when hockey was king of NY. Aside from a few days in 1994, it is not a possible reality.

Hockey will always be the bottom of the public's perception in NY and that's just fine with me. If it ever becomes bigger, imagine how much tickets will cost and then understand that almost everyone here will be priced out of ever attending a game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Not agreeing with whoever said that, but look at it like this:

Okay, yes, there are more Caucasians than African Americans living in the USA, however I believe if you polled all of both races you would find that a MUCH larger majority of African Americans watch basketball than the amount of Caucasians who watch hockey.

Caucasians in America see baseball as their sport, not hockey, while most African Americans would probably agree that basketball is their sport, if they had to identify with one most closely. They have talented players in every sport, but predominantly in basketball.

So just because there are more Caucasians doesn't mean they're all hockey fans. It's probably a lot closer than you would think.

However, I'm not saying that is why the NBA is more popular, but if I had to bet on it I am willing to say the majority viewership of the NBA would be African American by a fair margin. Just like the majority viewership of hockey is Caucasian by a fair margin.

If you think that's racist, so be it. If the guy had said "Hockey is less popular because most average white Americans watch baseball or football, instead." would you still think he was being a bigot?

Anyway I digress. I think it would still draw in some new fans if the NFL locked out. Even if the Rangers don't win a cup. The NY media needs to talk about the Rangers more, more importantly. the fact that they get such little air-time compared to other major NY sports teams is criminal and a bigger reason they aren't as popular. Media plays a huge role in making ANYTHING popular.
Caucasians see football as their sport, primarily because of gambling.

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03-27-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Seriously? You want football to go away because some fans were mean to you? How old are you?

I don't get why love for one sport means vitriol for another for some people. Baseball, football, and hockey are all on equal footing in terms of how much I enjoy them. I really don't care about basketball. But I don't feel any animosity towards the game or its fans. Why would I?

The irony is that all the fans who complain about how hockey doesn't get its due credit are usually the same people to mock anyone who tries to follow it but doesn't know as much about it as the diehards. It's sport snobbery and it's really childish.
how old i am doesnt matter but with the way they act alot of the time they can enjoy their lockout cuz i dont give one u know what that it may be gone. my point is those ignorant fans deserve it and i will be unaffected

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