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Old
03-27-2011, 06:55 PM
  #26
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Because of Pronger's various injuries and missed time, an argument can be made that overall, Mez has been our best defenseman this year.

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03-28-2011, 08:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Because of Pronger's various injuries and missed time, an argument can be made that overall, Mez has been our best defenseman this year.
Timonen fans might disagree with that.

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03-29-2011, 06:47 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherHockeyFan View Post
Timonen fans might disagree with that.
Timonen fans? Try people who understand the sport of hockey just a little.

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03-29-2011, 08:36 AM
  #29
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Yeah, Mes has been really good for us. I've been very impressed with his physical play. He doesn't get out of position that often for a guy that looks for the hit as often as he does. Timonen has been our best defender overall though. Again.

I think very highly of Timonen, so maybe I'm overrating him, but I'd put him in the top 20 of defenders in the NHL. Meszaros has to up his game a fair bit to reach that level.

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03-29-2011, 09:14 AM
  #30
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Timonen is definitely a top 20 d man. A few years ago he was 5th in Norris voting....

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03-29-2011, 10:00 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Timonen is definitely a top 20 d man. A few years ago he was 5th in Norris voting....
Yeah, a few years ago it was no question. He has dropped a bit with age though, but not as much as I feared when we signed him.

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Old
03-29-2011, 10:11 AM
  #32
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Pronger (healthy)
Kimmo
Mez
Coby
Carle
O'D

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03-29-2011, 10:47 AM
  #33
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Meszaros is better than I thought he would be, but he is not a #1 d-man. He would be a good 2/3, but he is still prone to mistakes and still needs to work on his skating. He has potential to be a solid contributor, but not a #1.

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03-29-2011, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAnotherHockeyFan View Post
Timonen fans might disagree with that.
Which is their right. They are entitled to their opinion. That being said, I disagree with them.

This year:

Mez@ $4 million>>>Timonen@ $7 million.

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03-29-2011, 12:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Which is their right. They are entitled to their opinion. That being said, I disagree with them.

This year:

Mez@ $4 million>>>Timonen@ $7 million.
Once again, $6.333 million does not round to $7 million

You have proved that you don't recognize alphabetical order, and you don't know how to round numbers so I think it is safe to assume you can't recognize just how good Timonen is. I like Mez, but he is not on Timonen's levek


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Old
03-29-2011, 12:55 PM
  #36
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by contract:
Pronger
Coburn
Meszaros
Timonen
Carle

By skill:
Pronger
Timonen
Meszaros
Coburn
Carle

(and carles not a bad contract...so think about that for a minute!)

kimmo @ 6.333 (or whatever it is) IS a lot, but he's a bit of a leader (for not being a native english speaker....OBVIOUSLY)

I've loved Meszaros a few years back, when he was on the Sens he screamed of a flyers type D-man...now hes finally back in that form

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Old
03-29-2011, 12:58 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Once again, $6.333 million does not round to $7 million

You have proved that you don't recognize alphabetical order, and you don't know how to round numbers so I think it is safe to assume you don't realize just how good Timonen is. I like Mez, but he is not on Timonen's levek
Did you see where I said THIS YEAR?

His cap hit over his contract is 6.333 , which I have already mentioned in another thread.

His salary THIS YEAR is $7 million. He's getting paid $7 million this year, not 6.333.

Reading comprehension skills are good.

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03-29-2011, 01:01 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Did you see where I said THIS YEAR?

His cap hit over his contract is 6.333 , which I have already mentioned in another thread.

His salary THIS YEAR is $7 million. He's getting paid $7 million this year, not 6.333.

Reading comprehension skills are good.
It doesn't matter how much he is paid. Cap hit is all that matters, because it's what affects the team. And Timonen is absolutely worth his.

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03-29-2011, 01:02 PM
  #39
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Referring to salary over caphit is useless. He has a front loaded contract, as do a lot of players. Briere made 10 million his first year here

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03-29-2011, 01:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Did you see where I said THIS YEAR?

His cap hit over his contract is 6.333 , which I have already mentioned in another thread.

His salary THIS YEAR is $7 million. He's getting paid $7 million this year, not 6.333.

Reading comprehension skills are good.
Ah, who cares? The cap hit is all that matters to the team... thus why you see front-loaded deals meant to keep cap hits down.

Critical thinking skills are good.

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03-29-2011, 01:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It doesn't matter how much he is paid. Cap hit is all that matters, because it's what affects the team. And Timonen is absolutely worth his.
That's debatable. Let's take a look at players who are similarly paid like Timonen and see how he stacks up against them.

1. Duncan Keith-Salary-$8 million-Cap Hit: 5.551 6 goals 35 assists 41 points in 75 games played.

2. Chris Pronger-Salary-$7.6 million-Cap Hit: 4.921 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 50 games played.

3. Zdeno Chara-Salary-$7.5 million-Cap Hit: 7.5 13 goals 29 assists 42 points in 75 games played.

4. Brian Campbell-Salary-$7.140 million-Cap Hit: 7.140 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 58 games played.

5. Dion Phaneuf-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.5 7 goals 22 assists 29 points in 60 games played.

6. Kimmo Timonen-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.333 5 goals 28 assists 33 points in 75 games played.


Is there anyone on this list you would take Timonen over?

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03-29-2011, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Ah, who cares? The cap hit is all that matters to the team... thus why you see front-loaded deals meant to keep cap hits down.

Critical thinking skills are good.
But it's not all that matters to fans.

Fans want to see top level paid players play top level. Every night.

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03-29-2011, 01:25 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
That's debatable. Let's take a look at players who are similarly paid like Timonen and see how he stacks up against them.

1. Duncan Keith-Salary-$8 million-Cap Hit: 5.551 6 goals 35 assists 41 points in 75 games played.

2. Chris Pronger-Salary-$7.6 million-Cap Hit: 4.921 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 50 games played.

3. Zdeno Chara-Salary-$7.5 million-Cap Hit: 7.5 13 goals 29 assists 42 points in 75 games played.

4. Brian Campbell-Salary-$7.140 million-Cap Hit: 7.140 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 58 games played.

5. Dion Phaneuf-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.5 7 goals 22 assists 29 points in 60 games played.

6. Kimmo Timonen-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.333 5 goals 28 assists 33 points in 75 games played.


Is there anyone on this list you would take Timonen over?
I'd take Timonen over Phaneuf and Campbell easily.

We know you dont like Kimo. Its alright. We know already. Everyone here, except you and maybe one or two other people, all think Timoen, this season, has been our best defender hands down.

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03-29-2011, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
But it's not all that matters to fans.

Fans want to see top level paid players play top level. Every night.
So if Pronger completely blows in 2015-2016 and again in 2016-2017 you will be 100% fine with that, correct? Pronger will make 500k both of those seasons, if plays 12 minutes a game on our 3rd pairing and finished with 10 points, you will be cool with that?

Also, someone needs to tell Giroux he should have stopped playing at the all-star break.

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03-29-2011, 01:39 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
But it's not all that matters to fans.

Fans want to see top level paid players play top level. Every night.
You're not paying these guys salaries on a league year basis...

For example, it has ZERO impact on the Flyers roster that Briere is making $7M this year. ZERO.

Chris Pronger has made $7.6M this year... he's coming in well below that number due to injuries.

What a guy makes in a single year... seriously, who cares? I care about his cap hit, because that actually impacts the roster that they can put on the ice and compete with.

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03-29-2011, 01:40 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
That's debatable. Let's take a look at players who are similarly paid like Timonen and see how he stacks up against them.

1. Duncan Keith-Salary-$8 million-Cap Hit: 5.551 6 goals 35 assists 41 points in 75 games played.

2. Chris Pronger-Salary-$7.6 million-Cap Hit: 4.921 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 50 games played.

3. Zdeno Chara-Salary-$7.5 million-Cap Hit: 7.5 13 goals 29 assists 42 points in 75 games played.

4. Brian Campbell-Salary-$7.140 million-Cap Hit: 7.140 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 58 games played.

5. Dion Phaneuf-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.5 7 goals 22 assists 29 points in 60 games played.

6. Kimmo Timonen-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.333 5 goals 28 assists 33 points in 75 games played.


Is there anyone on this list you would take Timonen over?
unless you own the team actual salary doesnt matter. As a GM, Coach, Player, Fan, Referee, Ticket Scalper, etc...all you care about is the actual cap hit. The only teams the actual salary could effect are the really poor ones...like Tampa maybe would prefer Kimmo to someone like keith, since kimmo's cap hit is high but tampa's real cap is their 'Internal Cap'

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03-29-2011, 01:40 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
That's debatable. Let's take a look at players who are similarly paid like Timonen and see how he stacks up against them.

1. Duncan Keith-Salary-$8 million-Cap Hit: 5.551 6 goals 35 assists 41 points in 75 games played.

2. Chris Pronger-Salary-$7.6 million-Cap Hit: 4.921 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 50 games played.

3. Zdeno Chara-Salary-$7.5 million-Cap Hit: 7.5 13 goals 29 assists 42 points in 75 games played.

4. Brian Campbell-Salary-$7.140 million-Cap Hit: 7.140 4 goals 21 assists 25 points in 58 games played.

5. Dion Phaneuf-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.5 7 goals 22 assists 29 points in 60 games played.

6. Kimmo Timonen-Salary-$7 million-Cap Hit: 6.333 5 goals 28 assists 33 points in 75 games played.


Is there anyone on this list you would take Timonen over?
Uh, yeah. We already have Pronger so that's irrelevant. I take him over Phaneuf and Campbell without blinking. Then I take him over Chara because Chara is prone to being soft at times, and simply doesn't seem to bring his absolute all for every shift like Timonen does.

Now is also when I'd like to point out that Goals and Assists are not indicative of who is the better defenseman.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
But it's not all that matters to fans.

Fans want to see top level paid players play top level. Every night.
I'm a fan and I don't give a crap what he makes, I only care about cap hit. Well then, so much for that argument.

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:41 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I'd take Timonen over Phaneuf and Campbell easily.

We know you dont like Kimo. Its alright. We know already. Everyone here, except you and maybe one or two other people, all think Timoen, this season, has been our best defender hands down.
and in all honesty it has not been close. Timonen has been our best and most consistant defender. too bad some people want to look at what hes making first and then passing some blind judgement.
Phaneuf and Campbell are overrated. Maybe some day they will be as good as Timonen defensively. Oh wait points are more important to some around here, nevermind.

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03-29-2011, 01:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I'd take Timonen over Phaneuf and Campbell easily.

We know you dont like Kimo. Its alright. We know already. Everyone here, except you and maybe one or two other people, all think Timoen, this season, has been our best defender hands down.
Those two... Timonen has been more valuable than Pronger this year due to the injuries. Keith hasn't been very good this year at all.

So, basically, the only player on that list that I would prefer to Timonen is Chara (this year).

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03-29-2011, 01:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
So if Pronger completely blows in 2015-2016 and again in 2016-2017 you will be 100% fine with that, correct? Pronger will make 500k both of those seasons, if plays 12 minutes a game on our 3rd pairing and finished with 10 points, you will be cool with that?

Also, someone needs to tell Giroux he should have stopped playing at the all-star break.
Services done?

Yeah, the point is immensely idiotic. These contracts are essentially structured like signing bonuses. Players get paid more up front, and the team receives a lower cap hit on their end.

Essentially his argument is that Timonen can stop playing so hard the next couple of years because his salary will scale down to 5M and then 3M.

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