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Old
03-27-2011, 05:33 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Just go ahead and say, "let them eat cake".
Yes, your season ticket plan is quite similar to the population of Paris starving to death.

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03-27-2011, 05:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
With the teams having more data on resale prices with them doing their own ticket exchanges and stuff, I expect to see more of this type of segmented pricing in the future. The more market data they get, the more they can make sure they get a larger share of the value of tickets, rather than reseller.
This absolutely is part of it.

All the folks that advertise their tickets as being at "the end that the flyers shoot twice" can now say "and that cost $10 more".

Don't think for a nanosecond that the Flyers don't monitor stubhub and ebay and craigslist to see what the games go for. Last spring it was completely out of hand on craigslist.

It is rather interesting that the lower level matrix was not applied to the upper level in that sections were priced differently rather than rows.

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03-27-2011, 05:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes, your season ticket plan is quite similar to the population of Paris starving to death.
That post was not about MY situation... but rather about YOUR response to it.

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03-27-2011, 05:44 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
That post was not about MY situation... but rather about YOUR response to it.
Yes, by equating me telling you that you have obvious options if the price is too much as similar to Marie Antoinette's (apocryphal) response to the pleas of the Parisians.

You're playing the victim card way too hard here. It sucks that the price went up for you, but it isn't "unfair" and many of the solutions that you are suggesting would be unfair.

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03-27-2011, 05:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Dude, I followed the team through thick and thin for both me and them... I stuck with them when they were playing sad hockey and going through the motions in the postseason... when they couldn't buy into the POs for five full seasons.

I attended when I had to give up other things to do so... I am not asking for special treatment... I'm asking to NOT get hit with a ****ing 23.5% increase when others are not asked to do the same and in fact many are not getting hit at all... can't you see that?

I am asking for fair treatment and to be either grandfathered or eased in... That is not unusual in business.
But there are 5 or 6 thousand other acccounts that should be "grandfathered in" by your standards.

Hell, I could make a case that I should get more consideration than you since I have 4 in club level since the building opened. Along with 2 in 116 for 8 seasons and 2 more in 117 for 4 seasons until I cut back after the strike to the 4 clubs only.

Do you agree how ridiculous that sounds? It would simply turn into a who can outwhine the next guy fest.

Your description of the "long time fan" getting "the shaft" is not quite accurate.

Did the "30 yr" at the time guys get first preference when the new building opened for better/more seats? You bet they did. That's why my Row 16 turned into Row 21 ... I wasn't there long enough.

Did the "40 yr" guys get automatic Winter Classic tickets last year? You bet they did ... and good seats, too.

I didn't get any .. I had to buy the premium package to guarantee me seats from the Flyers. With 4 full season seats times the "seniority" multiplier I got ZERO from the "lottery".

See?

How quickly we forget in our flash of anger at a perceived slight. I freely admit I have had the same feelings a couple of times ............. but I did ultimately get over it when the realization that there is simply nothing that can be done about it set in.

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03-27-2011, 05:51 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentj View Post
This absolutely is part of it.

All the folks that advertise their tickets as being at "the end that the flyers shoot twice" can now say "and that cost $10 more".

Don't think for a nanosecond that the Flyers don't monitor stubhub and ebay and craigslist to see what the games go for. Last spring it was completely out of hand on craigslist.

It is rather interesting that the lower level matrix was not applied to the upper level in that sections were priced differently rather than rows.
Thank goodness the Flyers did not factor into it that one of my seat exits is right off the Mens room and the other is just off the Ladies room... Had they, they would have upped the cost of the entire section for that.


Seriously though; just because you see those seats listed for that amount that doesn't mean they don't go unsold... or are reduced he last moment. And as I said before the better games/teams are much easier to move... the duds don't move and are often given away.

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03-27-2011, 06:04 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes, by equating me telling you that you have obvious options if the price is too much as similar to Marie Antoinette's (apocryphal) response to the pleas of the Parisians.

You're playing the victim card way too hard here. It sucks that the price went up for you, but it isn't "unfair" and many of the solutions that you are suggesting would be unfair.
I am not playing the victim card... I am stating facts... my seats have risen 23.5% and the people in front of me were jacked up even more... a few rows behind me had no increase... The people one and two sections over are sitting between the blue lines and have had their seats greatly reduced... Many lower sections were not hit and many people in the cheap higher Mezzanine seats had their seats jacked way up while others in the top rows were also untouched... IMO that was not fair to many.

To me being told by you to just give up my seats of a few decades... like it is nothing at all... is quite Marie Antoinette like in it's lack of any compassion or empathy. It is not as simple as that.

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03-27-2011, 06:14 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I am not playing the victim card... I am stating facts... my seats have risen 23.5% and the people in front of me were jacked up even more... a few rows behind me had no increase... The people one and two sections over are sitting between the blue lines and have had their seats greatly reduced... Many lower sections were not hit and many people in the cheap higher Mezzanine seats had their seats jacked way up while others in the top rows were also untouched... IMO that was not fair to many.
It's perfectly fair. Seat X is worth Y, so they're charging Y. If you don't want to pay Y, then someone else will be willing to if they've correctly priced the seats. You're personalizing something that is abstract... there's nothing personal about it.

Moreover, YOU have better seats than the folks behind you... why shouldn't you pay more than them?

Quote:
To me being told by you to just give up my seats of a few decades... like it is nothing at all... is quite Marie Antoinette like in it's lack of any compassion or empathy. It is not as simple as that.
Dude, you're asking for compassion and sympathy over a luxury good. Are you *ing kidding me?

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03-27-2011, 06:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by agentj View Post
But there are 5 or 6 thousand other acccounts that should be "grandfathered in" by your standards.

Hell, I could make a case that I should get more consideration than you since I have 4 in club level since the building opened. Along with 2 in 116 for 8 seasons and 2 more in 117 for 4 seasons until I cut back after the strike to the 4 clubs only.

Do you agree how ridiculous that sounds? It would simply turn into a who can outwhine the next guy fest.

Your description of the "long time fan" getting "the shaft" is not quite accurate.

Did the "30 yr" at the time guys get first preference when the new building opened for better/more seats? You bet they did. That's why my Row 16 turned into Row 21 ... I wasn't there long enough.

Did the "40 yr" guys get automatic Winter Classic tickets last year? You bet they did ... and good seats, too.

I didn't get any .. I had to buy the premium package to guarantee me seats from the Flyers. With 4 full season seats times the "seniority" multiplier I got ZERO from the "lottery".

See?

How quickly we forget in our flash of anger at a perceived slight. I freely admit I have had the same feelings a couple of times ............. but I did ultimately get over it when the realization that there is simply nothing that can be done about it set in.
When the Center was opened the seats were not reallocated back dues to the older STHs taking them -- our seats dated back to circa 1969 -- it was done to place Corporate and 'reward' seating... and also because the configuration was way different.

The Winter Classic lottery was influenced slightly by adding chances to long standing STH... and that was the only time and a shock... but was not along the lines of tenure by any means. Most perks go to the Early Bird STHs... I never complained about that. I also don't begrudge you any and all perks your seating gives you... I never would... If you would complain about your more modest increase, I would understand and support you.

Many people in my mind have a gripe... mine is being bumped up almost 125%... And I only point out the tenure because to me it is a crying shame to have my partner who stared our STH account in 1969 (or earlier, I forget exactly) is effectively being forced out... but many people can gripe. I'd say 123.5% is enough for me to be upset... Will I get over it? Sure... Will my partner? Probably not; he will eventually walk... Do I deserve to vent? You bet I do.

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03-27-2011, 06:24 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's perfectly fair. Seat X is worth Y, so they're charging Y. If you don't want to pay Y, then someone else will be willing to if they've correctly priced the seats. You're personalizing something that is abstract... there's nothing personal about it.

Moreover, YOU have better seats than the folks behind you... why shouldn't you pay more than them?



Dude, you're asking for compassion and sympathy over a luxury good. Are you *ing kidding me?
That is only because I wouldn't even consider discussing anything personal and meaningful with you. (just kidding)

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03-27-2011, 06:46 PM
  #61
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Sawdalite:

You are dead wrong about seat allocations from the Spectrum to the Center. Long time ST holders were given FIRST priority on locations and upgrades as they should have. Many had been waiting years to bump down to the lower deck. There were open houses, building previews etc for them long before the public saw the seating. They could have had their pick of any club seat in the building .... As you say they didn't exist before.

EVERY legacy ST holder I know got Winter Classic tickets without the lottery .... And I know more than a few.

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03-27-2011, 07:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by agentj View Post
Sawdalite:

You are dead wrong about seat allocations from the Spectrum to the Center. Long time ST holders were given FIRST priority on locations and upgrades as they should have. Many had been waiting years to bump down to the lower deck. There were open houses, building previews etc for them long before the public saw the seating. They could have had their pick of any club seat in the building .... As you say they didn't exist before.

EVERY legacy ST holder I know got Winter Classic tickets without the lottery .... And I know more than a few.
First off we did get he WC but only through the lottery... I believe we got one extra chance since we were over a certain number of seasons as STH... but we were in the drum with everybody else and had to be drawn. You cannot get much more legacy than us either.

As for the Center seats... If you mean STH could move up by buying Club Boxes... well, ANY STH could indeed move to he costlier new box seaing if they waned to give the money... and then anyone not a SH could get them too soon after.

We were bumped back to like the 12th or 13th row of the corner -- what is now the 'Family Section', BTW -- and only after getting on them and really arguing and complaining and 'threatening' did they relent and move us to better seats that we eventually gave up to move down... But that was not offered to long time STH and no "first priority" of locations were in the mix; we were told that being one of the first and longest STH influenced them moving us to a better seat... Had we not *****ed, we would have had the awful high up corner seats and would have later been moved when it became the Family Section... We were grateful and felt like our suffering through the five years of no PO and awful teams paid off. We didn't want special treatment but did feel it was unfair to be moved back... We were told of all he reasons the fans were moved back and trust me there were favors -- for instance politicians suddenly go seats -- We believed , like a lot of others believed that the Spectrum seating should merely be converted in similar manner to the Center... and it was, bu only after there were seats distributed ahead to others. I don't believe you will find the up front people as being the 'old' Spectrum up front people.... with the possible exception of the Sign Man who was a special case.


EDIT: When the Center was created there were more lower level seats because of the new configuration as well as people giving them up due to increased costs... so yes, there were openings to move down if you wanted to pay, and didn't mind being in the back... But again, they were also for sale to non-STH too afterwards.

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03-27-2011, 10:23 PM
  #63
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Sell tickets on the marketplace. You AND the Flyers make out in it. They get sold at face value even though you've already gotten the discount. Assuming everything is kept the same next year.


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03-28-2011, 02:00 AM
  #64
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I posted this on the business board's STH thread (numbers are approximate based on numbers of rows per section):
Quote:
Flyers going up about 12 percent in lower level, and 15 percent in upper level.
Max increase in lower level is 20 percent for center ice. Max increase in upper level is 87 percent for part of Row 12.
Upper level will now have a different price for every row. First two rows going up an average of 25 percent. Cheap seats (last 4 rows on ends) going up an average of 74 percent.
At least it was under this:
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.c...ticket-prices/
Quote:
Knicks season tickets will jump an average 49 percent and the Rangers’ will go up by 23 percent.
“We hope there’s no sticker shock,” said Scott O’Neil, the president of MSG Sports. “We think it’s fair.”
A 23 percent increase to see a middling Rags team is much worse than what Flyers fans are facing. I'm not happy about the increases, but Flyers fans are not alone in seeing princes jump ... a lot.

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03-28-2011, 09:05 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I am not playing the victim card... I am stating facts... my seats have risen 23.5% and the people in front of me were jacked up even more... a few rows behind me had no increase... The people one and two sections over are sitting between the blue lines and have had their seats greatly reduced... Many lower sections were not hit and many people in the cheap higher Mezzanine seats had their seats jacked way up while others in the top rows were also untouched... IMO that was not fair to many.

To me being told by you to just give up my seats of a few decades... like it is nothing at all... is quite Marie Antoinette like in it's lack of any compassion or empathy. It is not as simple as that.
Six sections in the lower level (center ice) were hit 21%.

Nine sections were hit 12%

Seven sections were hit 8%.

Cadillac Grille was hit 8%.

Also Premium memberships (which you now must have to get Cadillac Grille) were hit 20 to 24%.

Leaving just TWO sections that stayed the same. That's "Many" to you?????????

So clearly the lower bowl took the hardest hit by FAR according to you.

Come on guy ... I was mildly sympathetic but you're going way off base here.

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03-28-2011, 09:16 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
First off we did get he WC but only through the lottery... I believe we got one extra chance since we were over a certain number of seasons as STH... but we were in the drum with everybody else and had to be drawn. You cannot get much more legacy than us either.

As for the Center seats... If you mean STH could move up by buying Club Boxes... well, ANY STH could indeed move to he costlier new box seaing if they waned to give the money... and then anyone not a SH could get them too soon after.

We were bumped back to like the 12th or 13th row of the corner -- what is now the 'Family Section', BTW -- and only after getting on them and really arguing and complaining and 'threatening' did they relent and move us to better seats that we eventually gave up to move down... But that was not offered to long time STH and no "first priority" of locations were in the mix; we were told that being one of the first and longest STH influenced them moving us to a better seat... Had we not *****ed, we would have had the awful high up corner seats and would have later been moved when it became the Family Section... We were grateful and felt like our suffering through the five years of no PO and awful teams paid off. We didn't want special treatment but did feel it was unfair to be moved back... We were told of all he reasons the fans were moved back and trust me there were favors -- for instance politicians suddenly go seats -- We believed , like a lot of others believed that the Spectrum seating should merely be converted in similar manner to the Center... and it was, bu only after there were seats distributed ahead to others. I don't believe you will find the up front people as being the 'old' Spectrum up front people.... with the possible exception of the Sign Man who was a special case.


EDIT: When the Center was created there were more lower level seats because of the new configuration as well as people giving them up due to increased costs... so yes, there were openings to move down if you wanted to pay, and didn't mind being in the back... But again, they were also for sale to non-STH too afterwards.
I'm simply done arguing with you over past history. You already have admitted that you are not the account holder. Maybe you don't know exactly what goes on, maybe you do. Since I am the account holder on my tickets I know EXACTLY what goes on, what went on, now before and then. ANYONE in the upper deck who wanted to move to the lower level had a chance to commit WAY before politicians, kids of ST holders, etc etc etc. Many CHOSE NOT TO.

Anyone in the lower bowl BY SENIORITY who wanted extra seats had a chance to commit to them before anyone else got a shot.

I was at the meetings, I was mailed the request forms, I went to the private previews to see my seats .... maybe your guy missed all that OR someone else's name was on the account.

EVERY legacy ST holder got Winter Classic seats without having to go through the lottery. Clearly your man is NOT a legacy ST holder. Again, YOU can't speak for him.

You have a choice ... pay the money, move your seats or stay home.

Same as the rest of us.

Here's todays article on the subject:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20110328

..... and what do you know, who would have thought it?

Luukko said the Flyers examined prices in the secondary market on websites such as StubHub and Razorgator to determine their pricing.

"For those that were increased 22 percent, those seats are in higher demand than anywhere else in the building," Luukko said. "People fill those seats no matter the game. We think the new price is reasonable compared to the marketplace."

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03-28-2011, 09:25 AM
  #67
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I actually prefer the view from the Mezzanine to the lower section... so, not shocked at all. Can see the play develop much better up top.

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03-28-2011, 09:48 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I actually prefer the view from the Mezzanine to the lower section... so, not shocked at all. Can see the play develop much better up top.
Completely agree. Even if I don't have to buy the tickets, I'd rather sit up top than in the first level. It always cracks me up that they charge more for sitting down low. I get that they have to have seats that are 'premium' and more expensive, but still...

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03-28-2011, 09:55 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentj View Post
I'm simply done arguing with you over past history. You already have admitted that you are not the account holder. Maybe you don't know exactly what goes on, maybe you do. Since I am the account holder on my tickets I know EXACTLY what goes on, what went on, now before and then. ANYONE in the upper deck who wanted to move to the lower level had a chance to commit WAY before politicians, kids of ST holders, etc etc etc. Many CHOSE NOT TO.

Anyone in the lower bowl BY SENIORITY who wanted extra seats had a chance to commit to them before anyone else got a shot.

I was at the meetings, I was mailed the request forms, I went to the private previews to see my seats .... maybe your guy missed all that OR someone else's name was on the account.

EVERY legacy ST holder got Winter Classic seats without having to go through the lottery. Clearly your man is NOT a legacy ST holder. Again, YOU can't speak for him.

You have a choice ... pay the money, move your seats or stay home.

Same as the rest of us.

Here's todays article on the subject:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20110328

..... and what do you know, who would have thought it?

Luukko said the Flyers examined prices in the secondary market on websites such as StubHub and Razorgator to determine their pricing.

"For those that were increased 22 percent, those seats are in higher demand than anywhere else in the building," Luukko said. "People fill those seats no matter the game. We think the new price is reasonable compared to the marketplace."
The link doesn't work, but STH's are encouraged to sell their seats via myflyerstickets.com (the Marketplace). One reason is because STH's can sell their seats at face value - NOT what STH's actually pay. Credit on your account rolls over while the Flyers can claim the revenue. This year, face value is $6 per pair per game. Next year it will be $32 (I will sell what I bought for $60 into $74 or $92, depending on which numbers they feel like using, they're different on the invoice then they are on the chart that someone linked). And since you only sell them if someone buys them, the Flyers can't (or shouldn't) be able to take that away from you since you're selling it at their prices, without actually selling it back to the Flyers. They won't care that you make out on it, the buyer pays for the difference anyways. Advantage STH. That's if everything stays the same - a significant, significant advantage for the STH. And people will buy them, especially if they're only going to 2 or 3 games a year (especially where I sit). Then they'll come in and buy beer, buy food, whereas I won't because it's too much.


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03-28-2011, 11:36 AM
  #70
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Is anyone surprised? The organization is holding back tickets for playoffs games to help drive up demand and eventually they will mysteriously "pop up" on the market at inflated prices. The corporation is about the money, it is their primary concern, and they will make sure to bleed the fans of every red cent possible. So long as the profits keep coming the Luuko's of the organization care much less about a Cup than the fan who has been around since the last time they won.

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03-28-2011, 11:40 AM
  #71
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Is anyone surprised? The organization is holding back tickets for playoffs games to help drive up demand and eventually they will mysteriously "pop up" on the market at inflated prices. The corporation is about the money, it is their primary concern, and they will make sure to bleed the fans of every red cent possible. So long as the profits keep coming the Luuko's of the organization care much less about a Cup than the fan who has been around since the last time they won.
You can care just as much about winning the Cup as the fans at the same time as you're running a business.

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03-28-2011, 11:43 AM
  #72
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No surprise....just in line with our awesome functioning "democracy" and economy these days....I rarely go to games anyway but as some of the comments online have pointed out...just more corporate empty suits at the game playing with their iPhones and checking out their inflated/juiced stocks via their stock apps...

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03-28-2011, 11:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes, your season ticket plan is quite similar to the population of Paris starving to death.
I fail to see an issue here. Whereas he now has to pay more for tickets, the Parisians still had cake.



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03-28-2011, 11:48 AM
  #74
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You can care just as much about winning the Cup as the fans at the same time as you're running a business.
They care more about the bottom line.

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03-28-2011, 11:49 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
I posted this on the business board's STH thread (numbers are approximate based on numbers of rows per section):


At least it was under this:
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.c...ticket-prices/

A 23 percent increase to see a middling Rags team is much worse than what Flyers fans are facing. I'm not happy about the increases, but Flyers fans are not alone in seeing princes jump ... a lot.
And now on a serious note...wow. If they say to the press "I sure hope we didn't go too far!" chances are good you've gone too far.

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