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Sauer is + 18, and Mcdonagh is +17

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03-28-2011, 12:39 PM
  #1
Gardner McKay
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Sauer is + 18, and Mcdonagh is +17

Any one else extremely extremely impressed by this? Sauer is + 18 in 70 games which is very impressive but not as impressive as Mcdonagh being +17 in 34 games.


This is not just about either player. And while both accomplishments are extremely impressive, these two as a pair have been outstanding. I never thought I would see a rookie pairing with such poise and strong defensive play.

Also, just for thought not that I am advocating this or anything but does the strong play of these two guys make Girardi expendable?

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03-28-2011, 12:41 PM
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Inferno
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plus minus is a deceiving stat, especially for a team like the Rangers that always matches Staal and Girardi against the oppositions top line.

its awesome, dont get me wrong, but dont read tooooo much into it.

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03-28-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
plus minus is a deceiving stat, especially for a team like the Rangers that always matches Staal and Girardi against the oppositions top line.

its awesome, dont get me wrong, but dont read tooooo much into it.
Agreed, its great, but that stat needs context.

Coincidentally, Hockey Prospectus touched on Sauer in a blurb at the bottom of this article, and it mentions the Even strength Save % when Sauer is on the ice is .946 which is really high. One can say that he has something to do with that, however more likely its an outlier that inflates the +/- stat a bit.

Regardless, we should be excited with

A) how these 2 have developed

B) that they can develop together into a pairing that can play together for years.

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03-28-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
plus minus is a deceiving stat, especially for a team like the Rangers that always matches Staal and Girardi against the oppositions top line.

its awesome, dont get me wrong, but dont read tooooo much into it.
Well, since January 2nd, Sauer has played less than 15 minutes only once and has played more 20+ minute games then not.

Mcdonagh since January 9th has played less than 15 minutes only once, and like Sauer has played more 20+ minutes than not.

So its not like they are playing 13 minutes per game with these stats...

I agree they are not everything but with the minutes they are playing it is definitely significant.

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03-28-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post

Also, just for thought not that I am advocating this or anything but does the strong play of these two guys make Girardi expendable?
Really? "Just for thought" that's ridiculous Girardi has been our most consistent defenseman this season in my opinion, he's having a fantastic year.

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03-28-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Really? "Just for thought" that's ridiculous Girardi has been our most consistent defenseman this season in my opinion, he's having a fantastic year.
Where did I say go ahead and trade Girardi, like some people did with Lundqvist when CJ had his great first game.

Im just simply asking a question. I agree he has been one of our most consistent defenseman so again, Im not saying we should trade him, I don't think we should, was kind of just food for thought.

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03-28-2011, 12:50 PM
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Rookies? Yeah right.

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03-28-2011, 12:52 PM
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They are so good we have really done well for ourselves on the defensive end of the ice

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03-28-2011, 12:57 PM
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i have always spoken out in the past at the misleading stat that is +/- , but stats aside McSauer has turned into a great second pair for us. And all in all the future of the ranger d-corps is looking good. We have a solid top 4, and a good amount of prospects in the pipe.

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03-28-2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
plus minus is a deceiving stat, especially for a team like the Rangers that always matches Staal and Girardi against the oppositions top line.

its awesome, dont get me wrong, but dont read tooooo much into it.
Agreed, they may not be facing the best lines like Staal and Girardi have so that stat may be deceiving. That said, you would never know these two are rookies when watching a game. They have been really impressive and I'm excited to see how they may improve their play in the future

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Old
03-28-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Agreed, its great, but that stat needs context.

Coincidentally, Hockey Prospectus touched on Sauer in a blurb at the bottom of this article, and it mentions the Even strength Save % when Sauer is on the ice is .946 which is really high. One can say that he has something to do with that, however more likely its an outlier that inflates the +/- stat a bit.

Regardless, we should be excited with

A) how these 2 have developed

B) that they can develop together into a pairing that can play together for years.
That is a really interesting stat. Very similar to BABIP in baseball.

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03-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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The bottom line is we have added two great young players to a very good D squad. Also Henrick is the best defenseman we have.

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03-28-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
plus minus is a deceiving stat, especially for a team like the Rangers that always matches Staal and Girardi against the oppositions top line.

its awesome, dont get me wrong, but dont read tooooo much into it.
Normally I'd agree, but being this two are rookies and getting big minutes as the second pairing lately, I think this stat means something here.

The two of them play the game well beyond their years from a defensive standpoint.

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03-28-2011, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Also, just for thought not that I am advocating this or anything but does the strong play of these two guys make Girardi expendable?
Not even remotely. Coming into this year, we had only 3 top 4 defenders (Staal, Girardi, Rozy). The emergence of Sauer and McD made Rozy expendable, so now we are left with 4 top 4 defenders. If we trade Girardi, who replaces him in the top 4? Eminger? Maybe, but he's not nearly as good, and may not even be re-signed. MDZ isn't close to ready. Gilroy isn't good enough. VTank, Kundratek and Pashnin will be rookies IF they make the team next year. We can't count on any of them being ready for top 4 minutes. Sauer and McD are the exception, not the rule.

Girardi is a damn good dman on a very good contract. He works very well with Staal to help form one of the best shutdown pairs in the league. We'd be stupid to trade him, and short-sighted to boot. Sauer has a history of injuries and either he or McD could have a sophomore slump next year.

In the coming years we will graduate at least a couple more dmen. If they prove to be capable of playing top 4 minutes, great. I'd still keep Girardi. You can never have too much depth, as we've seen this year with all the injuries.

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03-28-2011, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Not even remotely. Coming into this year, we had only 3 top 4 defenders (Staal, Girardi, Rozy). The emergence of Sauer and McD made Rozy expendable, so now we are left with 4 top 4 defenders. If we trade Girardi, who replaces him in the top 4? Eminger? Maybe, but he's not nearly as good, and may not even be re-signed. MDZ isn't close to ready. Gilroy isn't good enough. VTank, Kundratek and Pashnin will be rookies IF they make the team next year. We can't count on any of them being ready for top 4 minutes. Sauer and McD are the exception, not the rule.

Girardi is a damn good dman on a very good contract. He works very well with Staal to help form one of the best shutdown pairs in the league. We'd be stupid to trade him, and short-sighted to boot. Sauer has a history of injuries and either he or McD could have a sophomore slump next year.

In the coming years we will graduate at least a couple more dmen. If they prove to be capable of playing top 4 minutes, great. I'd still keep Girardi. You can never have too much depth, as we've seen this year with all the injuries.
This is a very good point.

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03-28-2011, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Also, just for thought not that I am advocating this or anything but does the strong play of these two guys make Girardi expendable?
Some people will jump down your throat for this statement, but I understand what you are getting at. I don't believe you are correct though, given that right now we really only have 4 solid D-men that can be counted on. Moving Giradi this summer would severaly water down the current D group and make the team much weaker.

Now if you were to say, the development of Valentenko, Kundratek, and McIlrath could make Girardi eventually expendable, then I would agree. But that all depends on how they develop. And BTW... by expendable, I don't mean he can be let go, but rather could be used to get a quality forward (let's say).

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03-28-2011, 01:57 PM
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This is awesome, sky is the limit for Sauer and McD

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03-28-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Where did I say go ahead and trade Girardi, like some people did with Lundqvist when CJ had his great first game.

Im just simply asking a question. I agree he has been one of our most consistent defenseman so again, Im not saying we should trade him, I don't think we should, was kind of just food for thought.
exactly. and I answered it. In regards to Sauer/Mcdonagh having good rookie campaigns, I thought it was a ridiculous question to pose.

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03-28-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Agreed, its great, but that stat needs context.

Coincidentally, Hockey Prospectus touched on Sauer in a blurb at the bottom of this article, and it mentions the Even strength Save % when Sauer is on the ice is .946 which is really high. One can say that he has something to do with that, however more likely its an outlier that inflates the +/- stat a bit.

Regardless, we should be excited with

A) how these 2 have developed

B) that they can develop together into a pairing that can play together for years.
Although there is a lot to consider I would guess this possibly is some kind of outlier issue. Team average is about 2.6. Also, consider that McDonagh is a recent addition compared to Sauer but has a similar +/-. Seems a little counterintuitive to me. Being that they have been paired most of the time I would think most of Sauer's +'s have come with McDonagh's and they are so far off the average it would be unreasonable to assume that there wasn't something funny going on with their stat. It could be the pair being complimentary and getting the job done well rather than thinking that another D-man isn't as good as one of them. The TEAM has been doing well, not just McDonagh and Sauer. You also have to consider, just like someone else said that Staal and Girardi always are matched up against the other teams top line meaning that McDonogh and Sauer aren't. There aren't many teams in the league with more than one very dangerous top line. I would say that ALL 4 defensemen's stats are a little misleading. Other things to consider: Overall ice time. Ice time per game. What forwards they have played with more? The stat has to be looked at in conjunction with other things to be really informative.

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03-28-2011, 03:22 PM
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Incredible for rookies.

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Old
03-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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Stepan is a +7 second on the team as far as forwards go. I really think that for MC and Step that Mike Eaves at Wisconsin really makes those kids play in there own end.

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03-28-2011, 04:19 PM
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+/- can be a misleading stat and doesn't always tell the story...and its not fair to discredit the stat when arguing that malik sucks but then turn around and say its legit when it supports guys we like...

that said though, this stat completely re-enforces what we are seeing with our eyes watching sauer and mcdonagh.

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03-28-2011, 04:33 PM
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One of the few times +/- reinforces how a guy is actually performing. These two rooks have been simply stellar. I'm thrilled with what they've brought.

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:42 PM
  #24
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those 2 have been beyond what anyone could have imagined. they do not play like rookies and their numbers support that.

one doesnt need to know the +/- to know they have played some great hockey. watching them every night make the right reads and rarely look out of place tells me these guys just get it.

the fact that they can both play so well in their zone and also be involved up ice gives me a reason to believe that this defense will be strong for years to come.

im just hoping that one of ktek or vtank can be the next dman to step in and contribute next season.

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:58 PM
  #25
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Sauer is a very good D man regardless of how meaningfull the stats is too some posters. It is amazing he is a rookie and can actually improve quite a bit. It is scary how strong our D core can be with the likes of Mclrith, Vtank, MDZ etc still to possibly be top 4 d man soon.

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