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5 reasons to still believe in the Kopitar-less Kings

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Old
03-28-2011, 12:55 PM
  #1
TonySCV
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5 reasons to still believe in the Kopitar-less Kings

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-wp1255

All good points - open the article for all 5. #4 is a key point:

4. The Defensive Suffocation Theory

Terry Murray isn't exactly Jacques Lemaire, and not just because his skin tone makes Jacques Lemaire look Brazilian. But he's a realist who knows how to manage assets on his roster, and this could be a chance for the Kings to circle the wagons if they can't play the same brand of hockey they were with Kopitar healthy.

The blue line remains stacked and the team has several forwards that know their way around a defensive assignment. The Kings are seventh in the League in scoring; maybe it's time to accept that winning 2-1 games is still winning.

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03-28-2011, 01:40 PM
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I have never not believed in this team with or without Kopitar. They are a great mix of old and young guys, guys that have been there before guys that have never been there before all this means is for the guys who have not been there its time for them to start writing there legacy as a King. I feel very confident in our young guys if you watched them all year they have only got better. And just look back in Kings history..... look where Luc was picked in the draft did anyone ever think he would become what he did and mean so much to this franchise i highly doubt anyone thought that. Anything is possible dont give up keep showing up and screaming your lungs out the team responds so well to our support. All i have to say is GO KINGS GO!!!!! and i suggest you do the same and keep faith in them.

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03-28-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
maybe it's time to accept that winning 2-1 games is still winning.
Some of us accepted that long ago. I always laugh when people get pissy that the Kings are "built to win games 2-1". AKA "built to play playoff-type hockey".

Ironic that this characteristic of the team will most likely be the one that sees them through the playoffs, for better or worse.

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03-28-2011, 02:31 PM
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I hope point #5 holds true for us. The crappy part is that we just don't know what's going to happen. It's a new situation for us fans and the team.

There's also a well-known Kings blog linked at the bottom of the article. I think once those two guys see it, if they haven't already, they'll be pretty excited.

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03-28-2011, 02:39 PM
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"Call it delusion, call it a desire to see a team playoffs overcome the odds after getting prison ***** by the Hockey Gods one month before the … is it wrong to believe in the Kings when, logically, there's no reason to?"



I agree with the wounded animal theory, though. Test of character. This team will either fold like an accordion (unlikely) or put forth some of their ballsiest efforts we've ever seen.

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03-28-2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Some of us accepted that long ago. I always laugh when people get pissy that the Kings are "built to win games 2-1". AKA "built to play playoff-type hockey".

Ironic that this characteristic of the team will most likely be the one that sees them through the playoffs, for better or worse.
Yeah there is one poster around here that has coined the term "2-1 Terry Murray hockey" and I can't help but laugh when I catch myself saying "welp, there is another 2-1 Terry Murray win" after most wins. I think King fans have taken it to a new level when we now complain about how the team wins games.

It was a major bummer to hear Kopitar get injured (I was listening to the game). But this gives the organization a chance to see what the rest of these guys are made of.

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03-28-2011, 04:39 PM
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oh god, he gave props to Surly and Scribe

we'll never hear the end of it...

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03-28-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Some of us accepted that long ago. I always laugh when people get pissy that the Kings are "built to win games 2-1". AKA "built to play playoff-type hockey".

Ironic that this characteristic of the team will most likely be the one that sees them through the playoffs, for better or worse.
The only thing about that is that while overall games are tighter in the playoffs, there is ALWAYS at least one game in a series where you've got to come up with five or six tallies to win. That seems even more true since the lockout. You can have 2-1s and 3-2s split for six games and then that high-scoring game decides the series. Along those lines, we see the teams with a guy that can take over in a tight game (regardless of the score) prosper (think Forsberg, Crosby, et al). Kopitar was the closest thing the Kings had to that.

I think they can win some games and secure a good seed, depending on their opponent a first-round win is even possible but Quick is going to have to be God to stretch it any further.

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03-28-2011, 07:01 PM
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Forget everything, playoff success is going to come down to one thing...goaltending.

Quick is going to have to steal a series for the Kings to advance. There's no other way to put it. If he is to be the elite goalie everyone thinks he can be, then this is his chance to prove he is one of the top goaltenders in the NHL.

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03-28-2011, 07:50 PM
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The blue line remains stacked and the team has several forwards that know their way around a defensive assignment. The Kings are seventh in the League in scoring; maybe it's time to accept that winning 2-1 games is still winning.
... LOL. This is how they were winning games before Anze went down. Perhaps PD could stand to watch a Kings' game or two before instructing Kings fans on how to act or what to believe in?

Instead of winning games 2-1, they'll likely be losing them 2-1. THAT's what the difference will be. The Kings were winning games by the skin of their teeth WITH Kopitar. Without him, those games will be losses.

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03-28-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Forget everything, playoff success is going to come down to one thing...goaltending.

Quick is going to have to steal a series for the Kings to advance. There's no other way to put it. If he is to be the elite goalie everyone thinks he can be, then this is his chance to prove he is one of the top goaltenders in the NHL.
A-men.

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03-28-2011, 08:02 PM
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oh god, he gave props to Surly and Scribe

we'll never hear the end of it...
LOL.

I didn't even catch that my perusal through the article.

BTW, not the first time Wys has given us a shout. Won't be the last

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03-28-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... LOL. This is how they were winning games before Anze went down. Perhaps PD could stand to watch a Kings' game or two before instructing Kings fans on how to act or what to believe in?

Instead of winning games 2-1, they'll likely be losing them 2-1. THAT's what the difference will be. The Kings were winning games by the skin of their teeth WITH Kopitar. Without him, those games will be losses.
We all don't really know at all what's going to happen. PD has as much right to an opinion as any of us do considering nobody has seen the Kings play without Kopitar in years. This team played solidly, albeit against a crappy team on Saturday without him. They're a gritty bunch and will stick it out and keep games close and give 100% effort. It's better than throwing in the towel and believing the hype of a failure train without #11.

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03-28-2011, 10:33 PM
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5. They are the Kings and we will never get our shot at the cup without having to overcome seemingly insurmountable odds.

4. Because they are right there, I mean they actually exist so not believing in them would be an existential exercise in futility.

If you put the kings in a big box that you couldn't see inside of our touch do they still exist? Anything that you do to interact with the box cancels out the experiment because you are interacting with the box and could be calling the Kings back into existence.

3. Kopitar is one of the best #1 center's in the game and he will be missed for more reasons then just his offence no doubt about it but with our grandmother's coaching system firmly rooted in place we actually have our best shot at somewhat absorbing his loss and succeeding.

2. My brother called me up and laughed at me saying "how are you Kings now then huh? There is NO WAY they can win the cup now". My brother is a giant RichardHead who hasn't gotten a single cup prediction right, I mean not even one since we were little kids. With him saying we don't have a chance, we just might win it all!

1. Were Kings fans, this is all we know. We root grip and pray for this team regardless of how low it sinks or how high it climbs. We have no choice.


GO KINGS GO!!!

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03-28-2011, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
5. They are the Kings and we will never get our shot at the cup without having to overcome seemingly insurmountable odds.

4. Because they are right there, I mean they actually exist so not believing in them would be an existential exercise in futility.

If you put the kings in a big box that you couldn't see inside of our touch do they still exist? Anything that you do to interact with the box cancels out the experiment because you are interacting with the box and could be calling the Kings back into existence.

3. Kopitar is one of the best #1 center's in the game and he will be missed for more reasons then just his offence no doubt about it but with our grandmother's coaching system firmly rooted in place we actually have our best shot at somewhat absorbing his loss and succeeding.

2. My brother called me up and laughed at me saying "how are you Kings now then huh? There is NO WAY they can win the cup now". My brother is a giant RichardHead who hasn't gotten a single cup prediction right, I mean not even one since we were little kids. With him saying we don't have a chance, we just might win it all!

1. Were Kings fans, this is all we know. We root grip and pray for this team regardless of how low it sinks or how high it climbs. We have no choice.


GO KINGS GO!!!
Jesus. Is your brother a Ducks fan?

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03-28-2011, 10:49 PM
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Worse, a baseball fan.

He's the only one I know and he's a Toronto fan.

I shouldn't have kick his head when he is a child. It was an accident but the effects have been long term and devastating.

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03-28-2011, 11:40 PM
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PD has as much right to an opinion as any of us do
... I never said he didn't, did I? It might even carry some merit, if he actually watched the Kings play once in a while.

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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
gritty bunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
100% effort.
... The above quotes are nothing but 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
hype
... Now that we got that out of the way, it's awfully cute how you and a couple others want to say I'm "throwing in the towel." What I want to know is this - what, specifically, makes you think that the Kings will play better without Kopitar than they did with him? What makes you think that the other playoff teams in the NHL aren't gritty, or don't give 100% effort? Did they just coast their way to the playoffs? Did they win their playoff spot in a sweepstakes? Did they send in a few box tops from Cheerios?

So the Kings beat Colorado, who's won about two games in two months. Awesome. They have Edmonton next, who's tanking for the first overall pick. They'll likely beat them, too. Awesome. But, then what?

Maybe they will just keep on winning. I hope so. But, for the nth time, I just don't see it. I don't see a team that's scraped into the playoff race on a hope and a shootout WITH Kopitar, a team that's made their living winning 2-1 games WITH Kopitar ... that this team will suddenly become a World-beater WITHOUT him. I don't see the team suddenly kicking ass after losing Kopitar, making no callups, and inserting Kevin ****ing Westgarth into the lineup on a permanent basis. I don't see the likelihood of a goalie who's middle of the road at best catching fire any more than I see goalies who are better than him doing the same thing. So, I guess being logical makes me a bad fan in your eyes. That's alright. Maybe the team will defy logic. Maybe I'll be wrong. But, I doubt it.

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03-28-2011, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Now that we got that out of the way, it's awfully cute how you and a couple others want to say I'm "throwing in the towel." What I want to know is this - what, specifically, makes you think that the Kings will play better without Kopitar than they did with him? What makes you think that the other playoff teams in the NHL aren't gritty, or don't give 100% effort? Did they just coast their way to the playoffs? Did they win their playoff spot in a sweepstakes? Did they send in a few box tops from Cheerios?

So the Kings beat Colorado, who's won about two games in two months. Awesome. They have Edmonton next, who's tanking for the first overall pick. They'll likely beat them, too. Awesome. But, then what?

Maybe they will just keep on winning. I hope so. But, for the nth time, I just don't see it. I don't see a team that's scraped into the playoff race on a hope and a shootout WITH Kopitar, a team that's made their living winning 2-1 games WITH Kopitar ... that this team will suddenly become a World-beater WITHOUT him. I don't see the team suddenly kicking ass after losing Kopitar, making no callups, and inserting Kevin ****ing Westgarth into the lineup on a permanent basis. I don't see the likelihood of a goalie who's middle of the road at best catching fire any more than I see goalies who are better than him doing the same thing. So, I guess being logical makes me a bad fan in your eyes. That's alright. Maybe the team will defy logic. Maybe I'll be wrong. But, I doubt it.
There is a very good chance you are right that they won't go very far without Kopitar.

The rest of the people here are trying to come up with some good reasons to keep having faith in a team that just was dealt a devastating blow at the most critical point of the season. That what real fans do at a time like this. They try to have faith and hope for the best.

Being pessimistic, or "logical" as you call it, is the easiest damn thing in the world. You never have to wear your heart on your sleeve and you never have to be disappointed when the team fails. If they win, great, you can blend in with all the happy fans and if they lose, you can remind us all how smart you are.

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03-29-2011, 12:22 AM
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That what real fans do at a time like this. They try to have faith and hope for the best.
... Yes, newer Kings fan, tell me what real fans of the team do. Sorry to disappoint you, I can't trick myself into thinking this team is better because they lost their best player. I can't lie to myself.

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Being pessimistic, or "logical" as you call it, is the easiest damn thing in the world. You never have to wear your heart on your sleeve and you never have to be disappointed when the team fails. If they win, great, you can blend in with all the happy fans and if they lose, you can remind us all how smart you are.
... Don't tell me what pessimism is when you don't have a grasp on the definition of the word, alright? Pessimism is perceiving life in a negative way, and automatically assuming bad things will happen when there is no logical reason to do so. Like, for instance, predicting someone will get injured. What I have is not pessimism at all. I've listed valid reason after reason as to why I feel the way I do. I have never needed to gloat over Kings losses and I don't see any reason to start now. I've suffered through disappointment with the Kings for a long time. If they disappoint again, I will suffer again. I don't find happiness seeing my team fail.

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03-29-2011, 12:32 AM
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... Now that we got that out of the way, it's awfully cute how you and a couple others want to say I'm "throwing in the towel." What I want to know is this - what, specifically, makes you think that the Kings will play better without Kopitar than they did with him? What makes you think that the other playoff teams in the NHL aren't gritty, or don't give 100% effort? Did they just coast their way to the playoffs? Did they win their playoff spot in a sweepstakes? Did they send in a few box tops from Cheerios?

So the Kings beat Colorado, who's won about two games in two months. Awesome. They have Edmonton next, who's tanking for the first overall pick. They'll likely beat them, too. Awesome. But, then what?

Maybe they will just keep on winning. I hope so. But, for the nth time, I just don't see it. I don't see a team that's scraped into the playoff race on a hope and a shootout WITH Kopitar, a team that's made their living winning 2-1 games WITH Kopitar ... that this team will suddenly become a World-beater WITHOUT him. I don't see the team suddenly kicking ass after losing Kopitar, making no callups, and inserting Kevin ****ing Westgarth into the lineup on a permanent basis. I don't see the likelihood of a goalie who's middle of the road at best catching fire any more than I see goalies who are better than him doing the same thing. So, I guess being logical makes me a bad fan in your eyes. That's alright. Maybe the team will defy logic. Maybe I'll be wrong. But, I doubt it.
No one is saying the Kings are going to be better with out Kopitar. However teams sometimes get a short term boost when one of their best players goes down (the reasons why are debatable). If we get that boost, I'm just hoping it's enough to do some damage, or at least make things interesting. I have faith that can be achieved.

Quick is a middle of the road goalie at worst.

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03-29-2011, 12:33 AM
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I give the Kings at least a 50% chance of still playing hockey when Kopitar heals. His return will be an amazing boost and should be the difference in a close second round series that goes 6 or 7.

Heres the thing, guy is a top 5 player in the league. If the Kings go 7 games against Phoenix with Kopi healthy and heading into game 7 he only has 2 points in the series he will be taking significant heat and that stuff deflates a team. Without him theres little worry about team coming out flat everyone should step it up a level and beating Phoenix is very reasonable. If the team wins a playoff series without a top 5 NHLer that absolutely gives everyone a huge boost and almost guarantees there will not be a sweep in the next round as Quick will be hot and confidence will be very high and they know he should play late in the second round. So you need to beat Phoenix and win 2 games of the next series and if that happens Anze will likely play hockey again this year. If he does the Kings have as good a shot as anyone to win it all.

The team will be used to playing without him and everyone stepping up by the time the playoffs start too its not like it happened first game of the opening round which would be way more deflating regardless of the severity of the injury.

Get home ice, beat Phoenix, win 2 games in the next round, and Anze will be back this year.

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03-29-2011, 12:41 AM
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I give the Kings at least a 50% chance of still playing hockey when Kopitar heals.
Considering he's expected to be recovered from his injury mid-summer, that's a bold prediction.

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03-29-2011, 12:45 AM
  #23
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JT

Is it possible that it is perception that is being argued here?

I will speak for myself.

Obviously losing Kopitar is more than awful for more reasons than just his ability to provide additional scoring which even when he is healthy isn't leading the league (team scoring).

Also I agree that we weren't showing any real sense of being a truly dominant team who can win even when their system stops working.

It didn't look perfect before Kopi went down but we had a much better shot for certain, no big news there.

But as a very long time suffering fan like yourself and also as a person who has a realist streak in him haven't we been here so many times before that all you can do is hope for the best?

I mean really, what you and I and others have been saying even before Kopitar was injured was that the team isn't really a legitimate cup contender yet but in the playoffs anything can happen and that this is our team so all that we can do is support it.

Even more so when the chips are down we support the team.

So what has really changed since Kopitar's injury?

Sure we have lost one of the key reasons that we held out hope for that once the playoffs started anything could happen but even then, we all knew that we would still need allot of luck and hope and to catch a hot streak to actually have a shot.

So really all that has happened is that we need allot more hope and luck and a seriously greater hot streak for us to actually contend for the cup, but that is all that has changed.

You yourself have said that you support the team through thick and thin and I don't think that anyone is actually questioning you on that regard, that is why I ask if it is a matter of perception.

You are realistically saying that our chances without kopitar are just about dead but are still going to remain a die hard fan of the team. Maybe people are perceiving you as quitting on the team instead of simply questioning our chances.

I don't know. I have only read about half of this because even though you and I aren't the best of friends I would never question your passion and dedication as a fan of the Kings. Like me, too many years invested to give up just when it looks like we might be able to put together a really great team, at least that is how I see it.

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03-29-2011, 01:43 AM
  #24
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Unfortunatly I agree with JT on this one. People love to claim Kopitar is coasting, not doing anything, has no passion, etc but the guy did one thing on a very consistant basis...score points. Whether you like it or not he is a point a game player, that consistantly puts up a point a game...by this I mean he is not a guy who gets 9 points in 2 games then goes without one for 7 straight. He is regularly on the scoresheet creating the offense which is huge for a team that seems to average a 2-1 win. Without that extra goal Kopitar contributes on, well the margin for error become nothing at all.
Combine this with the loss of Williams, arguably the second best offensive forward on the Kings. Makes goals a rare commodity.
Lastly, the players left are ALL goalscorers (Brown, Penner, Handzus, Stoll, Smyth, Moller) not playmakers so who i going to feed them the puck? Kings need somebody who can gain the zone, control the puck and send it where it needs to go. Right now I see a defenseman in Doughty who can do that, but nobody up front. That is very concerning.

Put this together and I just do not see the Kings getting out of the first round this year, esspecially since there matchup appears to be the Coyotes who the Kings have struggled with in recent seasons. I hope I am wrong and will be cheering hardcore for the Kings but I just do not see it happening this year.

Note though I do not AT ALL agree with JT assessment of Quick as mediocore at best. johnjm22 is completely right Quick is middle of the road at worst.

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03-29-2011, 02:41 AM
  #25
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JT

Is it possible that it is perception that is being argued here?

But as a very long time suffering fan like yourself and also as a person who has a realist streak in him haven't we been here so many times before that all you can do is hope for the best?

I mean really, what you and I and others have been saying even before Kopitar was injured was that the team isn't really a legitimate cup contender yet but in the playoffs anything can happen and that this is our team so all that we can do is support it.

You yourself have said that you support the team through thick and thin and I don't think that anyone is actually questioning you on that regard, that is why I ask if it is a matter of perception.

You are realistically saying that our chances without kopitar are just about dead but are still going to remain a die hard fan of the team. Maybe people are perceiving you as quitting on the team instead of simply questioning our chances.

I don't know. I have only read about half of this because even though you and I aren't the best of friends I would never question your passion and dedication as a fan of the Kings. Like me, too many years invested to give up just when it looks like we might be able to put together a really great team, at least that is how I see it.
... Look. I'm like most everyone else in the wake of this injury. I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm frustrated. I think, what I want to see is - what I mentioned that I would do in the other thread, about calling up Holloway, calling up Kozun; they already have Moller up. Just ... I dunno, INSPIRE me a little here. Respond a bit, and take a ****ing RISK! Inject some new fresh blood into this team that's on the emergency room bed. Bring up some guys that will love every moment of being in the NHL. Maybe the veterans will get caught up in that a bit, if they're not careful. Maybe a line with Moller and Holloway catches lightning in a bottle.

I'm so tired of seeing the same uninspired reaction to adversity from this regime. "Oh let's trot out 80-year-old Ryan Smyth, who hasn't done **** the past month and change; let's plug in Westgarth, who clearly can't play in this league." I just would like to see the Kings go down fighting a little bit, to the point where - even if they go down - at least they're able to say "Hey, we tried something here. We have these talented guys down in the AHL and we wanted to get them some valuable experience, while at the same time, we thought they might provide a bit of a quandary for our opponents, seeing as how they've never faced these players and don't know their tendencies yet." Why can't they do that??? Why can't they have a little bit of Dylan Thomas in them - Do not go gently into that good night? Dean Lombardi reminds me of George McClellan in the American Civil War - build up a fine army, then proceed to do nothing with it. Why can't he have a little Robert E. Lee in him? Take some chances. What about the old line about extreme situations requiring extreme measures? Well, here's an extreme situation. Make me a believer. Is this too much to ask?

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