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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IX

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:43 PM
  #501
JFA87-66-99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
If Sologubov was worth picking ages ago then another early USSR great should be worth it now. Only, I think Sologubov should go on a third pair at best because the late fifties was a weaker era of Soviet hockey than the seventies and eighties.




6'0", 185 lbs, 4-time Soviet league leading scorer and four time all-star, gold medalist in the Olympics and worlds, averaging 1.26 goals/game compared to Bobrov's 1.8, but over a longer career. He is touted as the legend of the Soviet Wings franchise, trailing only Mikhailov and Starshinov in the club's career points. "Like Esposito, Guryshev often scored on rebounds and in the slot."
Thanks for posting. I think he'll be a good 4th liner. I'm thinking about switching him to LW on that line.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:48 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't know why 50s USSR gets so much more respect than 50s Sweden, for example.
Well, let's compare. THe USSR National Team's first year was 1954.

1954 WC: Gold: USSR, Bronze: Sweden
1955 WC: Silver: USSR, 5th place: Sweden
1956 Olympic Champion: USSR, 4th Place: Sweden
1957 WC: GOld: Sweden, Silver: USSR
1958 WC: Silver: USSR, Bronze: Sweden
1959 WC: Silver: USSR, 5th place: Sweden
1960 Olympics: Bronze: USSR, 5th: Sweden

So yeah, USSR was certainly better.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
Thanks for posting. I think he'll be a good 4th liner. I'm thinking about switching him to LW on that line.
He's not a LW and he's not a 4th liner at center either. There's no evidence he hit much, checked well or played physical in any way. In fact, there's evidence he was a finesse player who ought to play top-6 role or bench, therefore an extra pick candidate.

Quote:
"... he never resorted to battering ram-style charges or frenzied scuffles for the puck. His specialty was cutting through the confusion with split-second timing and sending the puck into the net... An uncanny instinct for goalscoring and a superb finishing shot were his trump cards...

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Old
03-28-2011, 08:01 PM
  #504
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overpass is twenty minutes into his time. Someone please PM me if he picks before his time's up.

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Old
03-28-2011, 08:07 PM
  #505
vecens24
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Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
He's not a LW and he's not a 4th liner at center either. There's no evidence he hit much, checked well or played physical in any way. In fact, there's evidence he was a finesse player who ought to play top-6 role or bench, therefore an extra pick candidate.
In my quick analysis I tend to agree with this. It seems he was the second line center behind the Bobrov line, so he probably wasn't going up against team's best pairings even. He however does seem to have a better Soviet League scoring record than Bobrov which is interesting at least.

Kings of the Ice:

Quote:
A player of exceptional control, he never resorted to battering ram-style charges or frenzied scuffles for the puck.
This certainly makes me think he doesn't really have much of a physical side to his game. Seems like the 1950s Soviet version of Tim Kerr to me.

EDIT: Totally didn't even read that quote Sabre, just looked at your analysis of what you thought of him LOL

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Old
03-28-2011, 08:20 PM
  #506
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Overpass picks alexei gusarov. Someone pm the next guy please.

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Old
03-28-2011, 08:30 PM
  #507
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Overpass picks alexei gusarov. Someone pm the next guy please.
I'm on it!

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Old
03-28-2011, 08:34 PM
  #508
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Anybody who wants to help me decide what to do with my next pick (up in 4 picks) Would be much appreciated! Drop me a PM

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03-28-2011, 09:12 PM
  #509
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The newest Pirate is Brian Skrudland



Quote:
... his determination and refusal to give an inch... He ate up minutes, both at even strength and while the Habs were down a man, rarely making a mental error or being caught out of position... Always a physical presence,.. his hardnosed play..
The juniors sniper captained an AHL team to the Calder Cup, and was awarded playoff MVP honours, the very next year winning the Stanley Cup with Montreal, scoring the fastest overtime goal in NHL history (9 seconds in) in what was seen as a pivotal postseason game. Of course, he spent his NHL career in a defensive role and isn't in any way ept as a scorer against the best, his skills legendary in other ways. The Selke finalist outworked and outchecked anybody, considered the greatest captain in Panthers history, leading them to the Stanley Cup finals, one of five times he has been a valuable part of a finals run (It is not hard to find Stars or Habs fans who think him an important part of their cup victory). His trade to Dallas with Keane is considered by many Stars fans as the best trade the franchise ever made, as an immediate impact was made that postseason and the next one for the cup. Skrudland is a winner. Every team could use a player like him. He not only finishes his checks, agitates stars (see Lemieux penalized in retaliating against Skrudland in the Panthers playoff upset over Pittsburgh) and kills penalties, he also forechecks and generates offensive zone face offs, winning crucial face offs in the defensive zone, with excellent hockey sense positionally:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrudland on his own style of play
The major thing if somebody is going to score against you is you want them to score by going through you and not beating you one-on-one. You never want to lose a battle one-on-one. Position is number one in hockey. As long as you have your body between the opposition's body and your goal, 90 percent of the time you're in good position. And finish your checks. Make sure the guy you had doesn't once again come back into the play and score the goal.
How he became so good and so tricky as a top face-off artist:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunSentinel, May 26, 1996
Sometimes Skrudland will go for the puck - could be a forehand or a backhand stab - and sometimes he will simply try to tie up the opponent's stick, then chip at the puck. The faceoff is a mind game. That's why Skrudland believes knowing what your opponent likes to do is important.

Skrudland relies on the secrets of a kind of guru to the north who helps him. His older brother, Barry, a former player who works in insurance in Winnipeg, first began teaching Brian the art of faceoffs when he was 12 and Brian was 9.

"I would knock him on his butt to win a faceoff," Barry said.

When the nightly games were over at the outdoor rink and only three or four players were left, Brian and Barry would work on faceoffs. Brian always wanted one more after big brother beat him. Often that meant they didn't go home until somebody shut off the rink's lights.

Even now, Barry, who says he will creep to 2 feet from his TV when Brian is in a faceoff, regularly calls Brian with "the odd suggestion."

"If I don't win my faceoffs, my brother's going to call me ," Brian said. "I could never beat my brother. He was a dirtier S.O.B. than I was, but I learned a lot from him."

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Old
03-28-2011, 09:17 PM
  #510
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Mats is skipped, seventies on the clock! I'm sending a list to whoever wants it btw.

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Old
03-28-2011, 09:28 PM
  #511
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HHH and overpass have my list. Night fellas!

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Old
03-28-2011, 09:32 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
I have no data to back this up, but I bet defensemen have a much closer ratio of 1st assists:2nd assists when on the PP as opposed to even strength. Therefore, I bet this change would probably hurt defenseman that get a lot of their assists at even strength and help defensemen that get a lot of their assists on the PP.
Yeah. Really every position and role should have different standards for goals/first assists/second assists. Hockey is a complex game and stats are an imperfect simplification etc.

Thanks for announcing my pick of Alexei Gusarov, TDMM. He was a very good defensive defenceman in Russia in the late 80s in club and international play and for Quebec/Colorado through the 1990s. Gusarov was +13 in the 1996 playoffs, playing on the shutdown pairing and first PK unit.

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Old
03-29-2011, 12:02 AM
  #513
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With Leo Labine gone, this became a really tough choice. But I wanted a guy with size, toughness, defensive ability and as much skill as I could find. So with those criteria, there was only one choice. A few other players made this really tough, but I'm going with Cal Gardner, C.

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Old
03-29-2011, 12:38 AM
  #514
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select

#4 Dave Ellett

Quote:
Dave Ellett was a very skilled finesse player. Skating was his prime asset. He was an excellent skater, blessed with very good speed and quickness, and fine agility. His mobility allowed him to dictate the play at either blue line. His transition game was great because he could effortlessly turn the play around at the defensive blue line.

His puck ability was also top notch, and that shone through on the power play, which is where Ellett established himself as one of the NHL's top players. He could control the point with great comfort, holding the line and pinching in with great efficiency. He was a key player in establishing the offensive zone. He was an under-rated puck rusher and a good break out playmaker. He also had a very good shot, and the smarts to keep it low and hard to create opportunities for deflections and rebounds.
Joe Pelletier

Seasons:16
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RS 1129 153 415 568 197
PO 116 11 46 57 19
Best Season 1987-88 - 68 13 45 58
All-Star Games 1989 1992
10 seasons 30+ Points
9 Seasons 40+ Points
3 Seasons 50+ Points
Ranked 73rd all time leaf
Role: Offensive defenceman


Last edited by Leaf Lander: 03-29-2011 at 12:59 AM.
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Old
03-29-2011, 02:01 AM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I think Kesler is better than Toews. He makes a damn fine 4th line C here. Excellent as both a defensive player and penalty killer, adds a ******** of grit, and also provides offense. The guy should be an elite sacred cow checking center before his career is over. One of my favorite active players.
What's up with the absurd Kesler love / Toews hate tonight? I'm not a fan of either pick, but Toews is clearly the better player and has accomplished more. The praise that Kesler gets on the whole HF is ridiculous.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:33 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Probert's a LW, isn't he?
To my knowledge he played both positions but maybe a majority were spent on LW.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:43 AM
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Toews is clearly the better player and has accomplished more. The praise that Kesler gets on the whole HF is ridiculous.
I'm also not a huge fan of either pick, but I'll bite. Do explain further. (The accomplished more part is self-explanatory)

I'd take Toews first ten times out of ten if I was starting a team in the NHL, but not in this context. Kesler is a perfect role player in the main draft thanks to his defensive ability; Toews should be in the MLD as a two-way guy.

In five years though, Toews will be a second line center in this draft, and Kesler will be a solid third liner.

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Old
03-29-2011, 03:03 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I'm also not a huge fan of either pick, but I'll bite. Do explain further. (The accomplished more part is self-explanatory)

I'd take Toews first ten times out of ten if I was starting a team in the NHL, but not in this context. Kesler is a perfect role player in the main draft thanks to his defensive ability; Toews should be in the MLD as a two-way guy.

In five years though, Toews will be a second line center in this draft, and Kesler will be a solid third liner.
What is there to explain? As you said, the accomplishments are clear. Toews is clearly better in playoffs, internationally, better leader and better offensively. Kesler has the edge in defense and grit, but that doesn't make him a better player.

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Old
03-29-2011, 03:16 AM
  #519
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I'm also not a huge fan of either pick, but I'll bite. Do explain further. (The accomplished more part is self-explanatory)

I'd take Toews first ten times out of ten if I was starting a team in the NHL, but not in this context. Kesler is a perfect role player in the main draft thanks to his defensive ability; Toews should be in the MLD as a two-way guy.

In five years though, Toews will be a second line center in this draft, and Kesler will be a solid third liner.
I agree with everything said here.

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Old
03-29-2011, 05:38 AM
  #520
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Considering I sent a list, I don't think I should lose an hour off of my clock?

Cleveland selects C Dennis Maruk



Sweet 'stache bro, next manager notified.

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Old
03-29-2011, 05:56 AM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Are you seriously proposing I have to prove Morenz was a better hockey player than Boucher?
To a certain extent, yes, or at least specifically in regards to defensive/all-around play. I have gathered a lot of information on Boucher's all-around game which I will post shortly, and have seen comparatively little on those aspects of Morenz's game. I don't know for sure if this means that Boucher was the better defensive player, but in the absence of positive evidence of Morenz's two-way game, I will have to assume so, as there is a lot of information out there about Boucher's checking.

I'm not normally one to overturn canon so lightly, but in a case like this where so many aspects (offense, defense, playoffs) of the players' relative value seem to run against the canon, I think we need to seriously question whether or not the canon is correct. I consider it unlikely that Boucher was a better overall player than Morenz, but it seems quite possible at this point that they were a lot closer than the canon would suggest. Having more information on Morenz's all-around game would help us to more accurately make those distinctions.

So no, I'm not asking you to prove that Morenz was better, but to help us determine just how much better he was.

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Old
03-29-2011, 06:35 AM
  #522
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Wow, didn't expect us to be on the clock so soon. Give us a couple hours as we're still undecided over who to pick next.

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Old
03-29-2011, 06:39 AM
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
select

#4 Dave Ellett

Joe Pelletier

Seasons:16
Era:Mid 1980's early 2000's
RS 1129 153 415 568 197
PO 116 11 46 57 19
Best Season 1987-88 - 68 13 45 58
All-Star Games 1989 1992
10 seasons 30+ Points
9 Seasons 40+ Points
3 Seasons 50+ Points
Ranked 73rd all time leaf
Role: Offensive defenceman
Loved Ellett. He really became a reliable own zone guy with Burns on the Leafs and he still had that good shot from the point.

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Old
03-29-2011, 07:23 AM
  #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
What's up with the absurd Kesler love / Toews hate tonight? I'm not a fan of either pick, but Toews is clearly the better player and has accomplished more. The praise that Kesler gets on the whole HF is ridiculous.
Agreed, also isn't Toews looking to get some Hart Consideration this season? Some posters don't understand that Toews plays more offensively for Chicago because he has to. He is their best offensive weapon and Kesler has the luxury of focusing more on the defensive end of the game with the Sedin twins providing the top end offensive talent.


Last edited by seventieslord: 03-29-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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Old
03-29-2011, 08:25 AM
  #525
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Toews is not Chicago's best offensive player. ***************** Toews has not elevated his game to a level (at least in the regular season), where he can be relied upon CONSISTENTLY in an 82 game schedule to provide the bulk of the offense (he'd already have several 80+ point seasons if he had). At this point, he's an excellent 2nd line option or a weak 1st line option for offense, but if he keeps up what he's been doing this season going forward, that will quickly change.


Last edited by seventieslord: 03-29-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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