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Sauer is + 18, and Mcdonagh is +17

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:18 PM
  #26
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they have been awesome. very dependable.

however, its going to take a lot more than a good +/- to make girardi expendable

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03-28-2011, 07:33 PM
  #27
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I don't care much for the stats. But I am impressed beyond words with how steady and confident they have been. Two rookies being so cool under pressure is unheard of.

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03-28-2011, 07:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Where did I say go ahead and trade Girardi, like some people did with Lundqvist when CJ had his great first game.

Im just simply asking a question. I agree he has been one of our most consistent defenseman so again, Im not saying we should trade him, I don't think we should, was kind of just food for thought.
I would say No regarding your question:

-Girardi leads the league in blocked shots (by a margin of 24), which is freakin' huge when you put some thought into it... Couple that with his chemistry with Staal, his consistency he's demonstrated this season, and his season high in points (30), and he's proved to be a huge part of our blueline.

-He's signed to a very cap friendly contract for another 3 seasons, so we save a lot of cap space having him and Staal as our top pairing. Girardi has 3 more years on his deal and Staal has another 4... Having such a cap friendly top pairing gives us the cap flexibility to fill out other holes on our depth chart, which enables us to be a more competitive team.

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Old
03-29-2011, 12:24 AM
  #29
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The unexpected development of Sauer and McDonagh is right at the top of the list of reasons why this team is developing so fast. The difference between the Rangers and other teams is that our elite talent is on the back end. What a great position to be in!

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03-29-2011, 12:51 AM
  #30
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+/- isnt the greatest stat going around but it's also not completely useless. It's not like these guys are on ice as part of a high powered offense - thats where +/- gets skewed abit. Hoping that Staalsy/Girardi/McD/Hulk are Rangers for a long time.

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Old
03-29-2011, 12:57 AM
  #31
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Actually for defensemen +/- tells a lot. The guys who are liabilities rarely have #s as high as +17.

Yeah, it doesnt tell the full story because the matchups cause a bias in the #s, but when the numbers are very high/low it says something.

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03-29-2011, 01:05 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
Actually for defensemen +/- tells a lot. The guys who are liabilities rarely have #s as high as +17.

Yeah, it doesnt tell the full story because the matchups cause a bias in the #s, but when the numbers are very high/low it says something.
Marek Malik was like a +30 something while he was here...he was a perennial high +/- guy, as was Tom Poti if im not mistaken (way too tired to look up the stats.)

so, no, i disagree with ya here man.

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:16 AM
  #33
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The way these two guys play, I don't even think it's possible for them to have a sophomore slump. They are just so solid positionally and don't need to rely on offensive output to hold a spot down. Furthermore, they are both very strong on the puck, and that will only increase after an offseason of training.

Basically the opposite of MDZ.

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03-29-2011, 01:21 AM
  #34
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the only thing stopping Sauer from making the big show was his health...this is the first season hes been healthy in god knows how long. he just needs to keep it that way.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:16 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Marek Malik was like a +30 something while he was here...he was a perennial high +/- guy, as was Tom Poti if im not mistaken (way too tired to look up the stats.)

so, no, i disagree with ya here man.
Well I don't know who that is, but I'm assuming it's someone who was a defensive liability..

Like I said.. liabilities RARELY have high +/- #s, there's always going to be the anomalies

It's like if you put goalie equipment on 1000 people off the street and make them play a game. A few of them might get shutouts, the rest will get their ***** kicked or get hurt by a puck hitting them.

It could be a sign of the rangers managing their defensemen well as well. It'd be nuts to match up our rookies versus other teams' top lines. If you do that (and I'm sure some teams do.. there's plenty of crappy coaching out there), not only will you have dmen with crappy +/-s, you'll also have a really crappy goal differential.

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03-29-2011, 02:20 AM
  #36
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Well I don't know who that is, but I'm assuming it's someone who was a defensive liability..
Seriously? When did you start watching the Rangers? Last year?

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03-29-2011, 02:37 AM
  #37
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Seriously? When did you start watching the Rangers? Last year?
Yes, the start of last season.

I know you're being sarcastic, but you're actually right

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03-29-2011, 05:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
Yes, the start of last season.

I know you're being sarcastic, but you're actually right
That's classic.

Not picking on you, but that's just funny.

In all seriousness, check the Rangers stats 2 years after the lockout.

Roszival and Malik were our top pairing and look at their numbers.

Regarding McSauer (sorry, had to steal that, awesome nickname ofr that pairing) I do believe they make Girardi expendable and if you tell me that we could add a guy like Ryane Clowe for him this off-season (money about the same) then it's a deal that has to be considered.

A power forward at the LW position? Would be a solid top line of

Clowe - Richards - Gaborik

strength - savvy - speed and talent throughout.

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Old
03-29-2011, 07:57 AM
  #39
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Malik also had the pleasure of playing with the Jagr, Straka and Nylander line. Talk about benefiting from the players up front.

Don't see that much padding this season with our 51 point leading scorer

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03-29-2011, 08:18 AM
  #40
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Stats Shmats! We all see what these two bring to every game. These two have turned into such a solid D pair, used in important moments of these huge games. Love their poise and edge.. i can see the hockey smarts ooze. McD's speed is sweet and Sauer, thank the lords for staying healthy (knocks on wood)!

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:15 PM
  #41
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+/- *CAN* be a deceiving stat, sometimes it isn't. in this case I think it's a bit of both, i think the 2 rookies have played tremendous defense, but i dont think the + is really because of them, neither of them have showed much in the way of the offensive side of the puck, i think theyve just benefited from a)not having to face the oppositions truly elite players, and b)the rangers having bursts of 6,7,8 goals mostly while they are on the ice (at least to my recollection).

again, im not trying to take anything away from these kids, but as a defenseman it really takes some context. im more impressed by staal and girardis significantly lower +/- because a) we dont have a true #1 line to carry the offensive load and b) because they are ALWAYS (not sometimes, ALWAYS) matched up against the top line of the other team as a pair.

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:26 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
+/- *CAN* be a deceiving stat, sometimes it isn't. in this case I think it's a bit of both, i think the 2 rookies have played tremendous defense, but i dont think the + is really because of them, neither of them have showed much in the way of the offensive side of the puck, i think theyve just benefited from a)not having to face the oppositions truly elite players, and b)the rangers having bursts of 6,7,8 goals mostly while they are on the ice (at least to my recollection).

again, im not trying to take anything away from these kids, but as a defenseman it really takes some context. im more impressed by staal and girardis significantly lower +/- because a) we dont have a true #1 line to carry the offensive load and b) because they are ALWAYS (not sometimes, ALWAYS) matched up against the top line of the other team as a pair.
Dude get off your high horse about +-. This is isn't the days of Jagr carrying the offense behind a mediocre defense with Rozsival and Traffic cone Malik reaping the benefits. No one is saying its the most important or accurate stat, its just a little thing worth noting, but as always the pessimists have to come out of the closet and shoot down the good.

They both average what, 20-22 minutes a night? Were not talking about a third pairing who is sheltered and sees 13 minutes a a game. While they are a mid defense pairing, its something to be excited about. They are not Staal and Girardi, we understand that, but they are also not Eminger and McCabe.

The reason I brought it up is because they both have had stellar play for rookies especially as our #3 and #4. There is a reason why Del Zotto is -5, Eminger is -2 and Gilroy was only +5 and not +18 because they have not been playing in the same realm as these two have. Thats all I was trying to get across.

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:53 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The unexpected development of Sauer and McDonagh is right at the top of the list of reasons why this team is developing so fast. The difference between the Rangers and other teams is that our elite talent is on the back end. What a great position to be in!
It's actually pretty interesting...if things keep going like this the Rangers could have one of the most solid bluelines in the NHL that doesn't have a legitimate star offensive producer on it.

I think even if Del Zotto pans out, he's not going to be Mike Green level good or anything, and wont' be playing on the top pairing...it'd just be interesting to see a teams defense constructed around a bunch of guys who are very good at defense and good at moving the puck in general, but not real offensive producers

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Dude get off your high horse about +-. This is isn't the days of Jagr carrying the offense behind a mediocre defense with Rozsival and Traffic cone Malik reaping the benefits. No one is saying its the most important or accurate stat, its just a little thing worth noting, but as always the pessimists have to come out of the closet and shoot down the good.

They both average what, 20-22 minutes a night? Were not talking about a third pairing who is sheltered and sees 13 minutes a a game. While they are a mid defense pairing, its something to be excited about. They are not Staal and Girardi, we understand that, but they are also not Eminger and McCabe.

The reason I brought it up is because they both have had stellar play for rookies especially as our #3 and #4. There is a reason why Del Zotto is -5, Eminger is -2 and Gilroy was only +5 and not +18 because they have not been playing in the same realm as these two have. Thats all I was trying to get across.
actually its more like 17-18 minutes a night, and they play about 1/3rd amount of high leverage time that Staal and Girardi plays (PK, which doesnt affect +/- but does help to get the kids into lower leverage situations to help them with their confidence, keep them fresher, etc.

if your argument is that McD and Sauer are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than MDZ, Eminger, and Gilroy in their own zone, then i will whole heartedly agree with you, you don't need a very questionable stat to bring that up. +/- to me only matters if youre a HUGE minus player, then it says somethings up...other than that, i tend to ignore it by and large.

again, im mostly agreeing with you, the 2 kids have been amazing in their own zone, they usually look like vets rather than the rookies they are, but they are being put into much lower leverage situations and as such that 1 stat is artificially inflated. they play more like ~even players if they had to match up against the better forwards in the league...as rookies, that speaks volumes.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:06 PM
  #45
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It's actually pretty interesting...if things keep going like this the Rangers could have one of the most solid bluelines in the NHL that doesn't have a legitimate star offensive producer on it.

I think even if Del Zotto pans out, he's not going to be Mike Green level good or anything, and wont' be playing on the top pairing...it'd just be interesting to see a teams defense constructed around a bunch of guys who are very good at defense and good at moving the puck in general, but not real offensive producers
The one thing they ARE all good at is pinching to keep the play alive, though. That's key at even strength if we're going to be the grinding, physical, board battling team that we've seen this season. If our d-men can keep the puck in the zone and keep getting it deep to the forwards without getting beat, that will result in a lot of very effective offensive zone time.

The important thing that we need a pure offensive defenseman for is the PP, obviously.If Staal/Girardi can play 25-27 minutes, and McD-Sauer can play 20-22 minutes a game, that leaves the other two d-men with only 11-15 minutes to play. Throw them out against weak lines at even strength.

That would protect a guy like MDZ from being a major defensive liability just because he wouldn't be on the ice that much outside of the PP. If he does develop into a good PPQB, then let him play the whole damn PP with only extremely limited ES time.

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03-29-2011, 02:14 PM
  #46
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I don't care much for the stats. But I am impressed beyond words with how steady and confident they have been. Two rookies being so cool under pressure is unheard of.
HockeyBurd is that Danny Cloutier beating the hell out of Tommy Salo in your Avatar? Still one of my favorite moments.

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03-29-2011, 02:17 PM
  #47
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HockeyBurd is that Danny Cloutier beating the hell out of Tommy Salo in your Avatar? Still one of my favorite moments.
it definitely is...

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:36 PM
  #48
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Saw this after the Rangers beat Boston on Saturday

Quote:
The big bodies like Brian Boyle, Brandon Dubinsky, Wojtek Wolski up front and a defensemen corps that’s all well over 6-feet tall and 200-pounds isn’t going to be rag-dolled by the Bruins.

If and when the B’s do manage to maneuver their way through New York’s layered defense, Henrik Lundqvist and his NHL-leading 11 shutouts will be crouched in wait to make the saves as he did while snatching Rich Peverley’s top shelf wrist shot out of thin air in the third period.
http://www.csnne.com/03/26/11/Hagger...40&feedID=3944

Staal and Sauer are 6-3. McDonagh and Girardi are 6-1. They are all over 200 pounds. Good skaters. McDonagh is the best skater in the group.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:45 PM
  #49
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I don't know why there is anymore discussion here. Trading one of them is simply preposterous. They are one of the most, if not the most effective shut down pair in the league and indications are that McDonagh and Sauer will be similar. If you have two defensive pairs that can shut down a top line why would you want to trade any of them away, especially if they are coming cheap for the next 3-4 years? Now you don't only shut down a top line in Pitt or Wash but you shut down teams with two top lines like Detroit and Van. Sure, their trade values are huge but that's because at the moment they are locked into a multi-year contract dirt cheap. Keep them until you have to trade them or sign them. If they love the game, love where they are and trust the system that is being run, they won't want so much money it will hinder the team. If they start asking for more or won't take a reasonable offer they are better off somewhere else, taking too much money from another team and hurting them rather than NYR. Trust the scouting to replace anyone that you have to lose to free agency. They found Girardi didn't they? How many times does it have to be mentioned that this guy went undrafted? Who noticed him? I know of 29 other teams that didn't (TWICE). Sure they've made mistakes but the fact that he went unnoticed by everyone else (TWICE) says something about your scouting.

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03-29-2011, 03:21 PM
  #50
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I don't understand why people are looking to get rid of Girardi... Even if these two end up being very good defensemen, good depth is a very nice thing to have. It's not like Girardi is ever going to bring back a high level scorer either, so it's just not worth trading him.

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