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Trade for another top 5 pick

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Old
03-30-2011, 09:38 PM
  #26
Bonzai12
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Originally Posted by SlyAvs View Post
A partner for EJ ? i like Bogosian , Cody Franson or Jack Johnson
Johnson's pretty big I am sure he can find a lot of partners.

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Old
03-30-2011, 10:18 PM
  #27
chewey
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Originally Posted by Freedom Elz View Post
Size, skating, toughness, hockey sense, to name a few. He's a good passer and has a nice point bomb as well. If he has a weakness, it might be that its all too good to be true.
Like I said if the Avs draft him I'll fully support him and he is a top 10 pick for sure. A lot of scouting services have him higher than where I do so obviously my opinion isn't very appealing.

Either way I like Seimens over him.

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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
You are assuming that 3rd will turn out to be of the quality of Barrie, they more likely would be a Carman, Hensick, Parshin, or Lunberg, and while OB is a good player and a needed add, I trade him in a heartbeat for a more complete player in Larsson, even if he is a year or two or three away.
I just don't see it being worth it. Why do you?

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At this point, the Avs are better served by getting the more focused talent than broader net of players, especially on D. They have been running with #3-4 D men playing top minutes far too much.
It may just be me, and only me, but this year's dcrop beside Larsson doesn't strike me to be the best. Next years look quite solid. I would take Larsson over any Dman drafted in 2010 and some in 2009 but I wouldn't take Hamilton over Folwer, Gudbranson or Gromley.

Again this is just me. If you have a higher opinion of Hamtilon feel free to disagree. Also, we don't know what we'll have with our Dmen till they hit the NHL.

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As for the Islanders, despite having De Haan and Streit, there is some thought that they are looking at taking Ryan Murphy potentially with their pick. No one really knows what Streit will bring to the table after missing a whole season. He will also be 34 going into next season, and while not an old man by anymeans, he won't be there for ever. Regarding De Haan, I don't follow NYI prospects or anything closely, but the little I have seen on him is that he has not exactly turned heads this year. (though not many young D men do in their first year) Unlike the Avs, I get the impression that the NYI are more in the mode of taking more depth quality over a singular pick/player.
Streit still has a lot of good hockey in him IMHO. That guy is smart, injuries shouldn't effect his vision. As you also said the NYI could just draft Murphy who I think has just as good offensive vision, if not better, than Elliot or Barrie.

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Looking 2-3 years down the line,

Duchene-Couturier-Hishon
O'Reilly-Stastny-Jones
Winnik-Malone-McClemment

Elliot/Barrie-Johnson
Liles-Larsson
O'Bryne
Thats too much shuffling for my like. You are really high on Couturier but I don't think he'll be better than Stastny. I think he could be as good as Stastny but not better. I'd sooner take RoR on the 2nd line than wing where his defensive game is used more. Duchene on the wing sits fine with me.

JMHO.

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Sets you up very nicely, with the only real need to fill out the 4th line and add a 2nd lefty D man... (with Liles perhaps being a bit in the air in regards to his future)... And there is always the chance of a darkhorse prospect showing up and/or a good UFA signing up front that might bump guys down. Yeah, we don't know what to expect really from Coooter, Hishon, Larsson, Malone, and Barrie/Elliott... but on paper at least, you are looking at a lineup that has great balance and a good mix of size, skill, and by then some leadership and experience with core players.
I think we'll just agree to disagree. I'll be shocked to see the Avs make the move you suggested and I wouldn't do it.

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Old
03-30-2011, 10:33 PM
  #28
Drury_Sakic
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Like I said if the Avs draft him I'll fully support him and he is a top 10 pick for sure. A lot of scouting services have him higher than where I do so obviously my opinion isn't very appealing.

I just don't see it being worth it. Why do you?

It may just be me, and only me, but this year's dcrop beside Larsson doesn't strike me to be the best. Next years look quite solid. I would take Larsson over any Dman drafted in 2010 and some in 2009 but I wouldn't take Hamilton over Folwer, Gudbranson or Gromley.

Again this is just me. If you have a higher opinion of Hamtilon feel free to disagree. Also, we don't know what we'll have with our Dmen till they hit the NHL.


Thats too much shuffling for my like. You are really high on Couturier but I don't think he'll be better than Stastny. I think he could be as good as Stastny but not better. I'd sooner take RoR on the 2nd line than wing where his defensive game is used more. Duchene on the wing sits fine with me.

JMHO.



I think we'll just agree to disagree. I'll be shocked to see the Avs make the move you suggested and I wouldn't do it.
Uhm, I never mentioned Hamilton.... I am all about Larsson and Couturier....... Who are both safe picks to at least be decent 3rd Line, 3rd paring talent, and Larsson reportedly having Lidstrom upside and Couturier perhaps shaping up to be Vinny part II.

As you said, Larsson appears to be the legit, real deal on D, more than replacing either TB or SE in terms of prospect pool talent.... And Couturier... I don't think he is better than Stastny or will be, what I am saying there is that you find a balance on a line, putting the big PF center with the ultra skilled, but smaller Hishon, and the known talent of Duchene... balancing that out against a better two way game 2nd line with Stastny, Jones, and O'Reilly. In theory, you match the 2nd line against the opposing teams best, and get the top offensive threat line away from having to play shutdown hockey. And again, I am not proposing that this year by any means, that is a 2-3 year projection, with perhaps one more year of suck in there before things start to turn.

And who knows, perhaps my "3rd" line in that situation is more of a 4th line, and the Avs end up building a more balanced 3rd unit along the way, but regardless, it sets a solid foundation and would present 3 very different styles of lines to a game. The Avs offense is very samish right now from line 1 to line 4 in terms of style. Breaking that up would make the team less predictable.

Hell, maybe the bottom two lines look like this in 2-3 years...

Flash-Malone-Mueller
Winnik-McClemment-Big winger that can sorta skate without falling over.


Easy choice to give up Barrie/Elliot, Siemens, and say a 1 in 6 chance of the 3rd rounder turing into an average or above NHL for Larsson and Couturier, both who have superstar potential and bring elements to the team that they simply do not have in the system. (Johnson compares more to Blake/Pronger where as Larsson is compared to Lidstrom)


Last edited by Drury_Sakic: 03-30-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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Old
03-30-2011, 11:10 PM
  #29
chewey
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I am sorry Drury but I think I may have misunderstood your post.

So basically we draft Larsson with our top 3 pick and then trade up for Couturier?
So basially what you are saying is we move up for Cooter?

I'd rather have Biggs. I mean I like Cooter a lot, don't get me wrong I think he'll hit the NHL and make teams regret not taking him, but I would just keep our picks and draft Biiggs. I don't think Cooter is worth that package.

But w/e we'll see what happens. We don't have much power over who the avs pick and I am glad too

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Old
03-31-2011, 12:51 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
1. Stastny is a young 25 year old PPG no. 1 center with a superior defensive game (probably top 10 among centers in that regard).
Not according to NHL11.
*See Kesler.

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Old
03-31-2011, 07:44 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Honestly he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to be a top pairing dman. Kinda reminds me of a JBow but not as good offensively and more a little more physical.

Just walk away feeling unimpressed. Now again I can eat crow on this and I've been wrong on other prospects before. Shatty and Cohen are the big ones that hit home
Fair enough.

If you look past JBow's inflated contract, he's a damn good shutdown defenseman.

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Old
03-31-2011, 07:53 AM
  #32
The Saw Is the Law
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Avs doesn't need another top pick. Our scoutin staf can make huge steals in later picks.

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Old
03-31-2011, 09:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Saw Is the Law View Post
Avs doesn't need another top pick. Our scoutin staf can make huge steals in later picks.
Like they did with Tessier, Delmas, Berki, Vayo, Williams, etc. Lets not overrated our scouting staff now. They are quite successful with late round picks but hardly anything is gaurenteed.

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Old
03-31-2011, 12:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
Uhm, I never mentioned Hamilton.... I am all about Larsson and Couturier....... Who are both safe picks to at least be decent 3rd Line, 3rd paring talent, and Larsson reportedly having Lidstrom upside and Couturier perhaps shaping up to be Vinny part II.
You guys need to be careful here, the same thing was said about Oliver Ekman-Larsson with the comparisons to Lidstrom. Whenever scouts see a young puck-moving d-man from Sweden, he's inevitably compared to Lidstrom. That's not to say that OEL won't be a very good player but after having watched him, I can safely say that he's not going to be the next Lidstrom. Top 4? Probably. Guys like Lidstrom are generational talents and I don't see Adam Larsson projecting that way either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Like they did with Tessier, Delmas, Berki, Vayo, Williams, etc. Lets not overrated our scouting staff now. They are quite successful with late round picks but hardly anything is gaurenteed.
Every single team in the league has that kind of list and more often then not, it's WAY worse. It's actually been proven that the Avs have the very best organization in the league at identifying and drafting NHL talent. Now, that's more quantitative than qualitative but it's still a big positive since in most cases you can parlay those assets into something else.

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Old
03-31-2011, 12:43 PM
  #35
chewey
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You guys need to be careful here, the same thing was said about Oliver Ekman-Larsson with the comparisons to Lidstrom. Whenever scouts see a young puck-moving d-man from Sweden, he's inevitably compared to Lidstrom. That's not to say that OEL won't be a very good player but after having watched him, I can safely say that he's not going to be the next Lidstrom. Top 4? Probably. Guys like Lidstrom are generational talents and I don't see Adam Larsson projecting that way either.
Agreed. Every 6'4+ Dman is also compared to Pronger. Hell Hedman was compared to Pronger and I never saw it! Also any center with a PPG clip and solid two way game in the minors = Joe Sakic/Yzerman.

Generalizations FTL!

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Every single team in the league has that kind of list and more often then not, it's WAY worse. It's actually been proven that the Avs have the very best organization in the league at identifying and drafting NHL talent. Now, that's more quantitative than qualitative but it's still a big positive since in most cases you can parlay those assets into something else.

Not disagreeing with you here just seemed silly saying "avs don't need another top pick". Any time you get a top pick, you use it and use it wisely. Not go saying, "i think we won't pick the bpa or focus too much on this pick cause we do better in the late rounds".

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