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Old
10-12-2003, 09:17 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Lots of dives tonight from both teams
Yep, and that was the saddest part about it. Teams that good shouldn't feel the need to dive, both teams included here. I know certain Avs do it anyway and the Blues-Canucks playoff series last year proved that both of those two teams do it quite often themselves. I think the refs are the saddest part because they seem to buy most of the dives and don't have the stones to give out unsportsmanlikes to those deserving of them.

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10-12-2003, 09:22 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Yep, and that was the saddest part about it. Teams that good shouldn't feel the need to dive, both teams included here. I know certain Avs do it anyway and the Blues-Canucks playoff series last year proved that both of those two teams do it quite often themselves. I think the refs are the saddest part because they seem to buy most of the dives and don't have the stones to give out unsportsmanlikes to those deserving of them.
They miss the obvious calls, and then buy into the dives every time

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10-12-2003, 09:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Enoch
looked like a majore dive. The penalty that led to the 5-3 for the Blues that was called on Blake was also a big dive. The guy did a 360 and Blake barely touched him....ha! Lots of dives tonight from both teams
Yea, I was like WTF? The guy did a double axel into the ground and Blake got called for it?

Overall, the biggest question is in goal and I think Aebi played well tonight. He saw the puck very well especially when the Blues players were crashing the net. He definitely had no chance on the 3 on 1, but I think he would like to have the 2 man ADV goal back.

Liles, he needs to pack some more muscle...he was really getting pushed around by the Blues forwards.

And yea, Tony Granato deserves a big "?" with his whacked out ice times. Even though the Avs didn't score until the 3rd, I mean yeesh, pretty much the whole game it was either Forsberg's line or Sakic's line. It seemed like the 3rd and 4th lines only role was to win a defensive faceoff and try to get Osgood to freeze the puck so the big guns can come out.

Definitely, Osgood made some killer saves throughout the entire game. I think it was really a game of missed opportunities...

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10-12-2003, 09:45 PM
  #54
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And for that Pronger crosscheck on Kariya...I think he was pissed because Blake, who was sitting by the crease, was crosschecking Jackman. But I still think it was uneccessary after the goal was scored.

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Old
10-12-2003, 09:46 PM
  #55
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Well, Granato's first mistake was scratching Battaglia in favor of McCormick. Cody deserved a spot, but not on the 3rd line. Cummins should have been the one to sit tonight.

But it probably wouldn't have mattered too much. The Avs were flat tonight. Coasting toward loose pucks, not forechecking with much authority, sloppy passing and constant turnovers, and a power play that was laughable. They made Osgood look like an All-Star by shooting into his chest every time.

The only player on the Avs who deserved a star was Skrastins. The big guy played out of his head tonight.

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Old
10-12-2003, 09:48 PM
  #56
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Just checked the ice times:

Sakic 24:05
Forsberg 23:58
Selanne 19:28
Hejduk 22:33
Kariya 22:41
Tanguay 16:16 <----only 2:23 of PP time

Insane numbers. They really do not tell the whole story either.

Blake had 27 mins as well tonight ;/

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10-12-2003, 09:52 PM
  #57
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Oh yea, Hejduk AND Tanguay both getting dropped at the same time by the crease was just funny! It looked so....synchronized.

Well, I only saw it once so I can't say what exactly happened there.

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Old
10-12-2003, 11:54 PM
  #58
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For those that taped the game on the ESPN replay, donít panic when you first watch it, you didnít set it for the wrong time. For some reason they messed up and started to play the replay at around the 10 minute mark of the second period. After they cut to a commercial they get it right. I taped the game from the Fox broadcast so if someone knows about what time the elbow thing happened I could take another look at it. I donít know if you can trust my homerism opinion thought. However, even me, the person that worships the ground that Forsberg walks on is getting a little frustrated already with his distractions. It seems like last year he was finally getting over the whole retaliation, pay-back thing and just focusing on his skill. But it seems like heís regressing. This is going to be a problem because every team and every player in the league is going to bring their best game of the year against the Avs. Then throw in a punk like Avery or Danton and youíve figured out the formula to beat the Avs.

Could anyone see from the TV, the part were Osgood deliberately pushed the net off of the pegs. Was it already partially off and he pushed it off the rest of the way to get it let the ref know that they needed to fix it? If not, it should have been a delay of game because he blatantly pushed it off during a very big scoring chance.

Did anyone else go to the game? If so did they have the snow machines working during the first game? I was sitting on the end on Friday and didnít notice the fake (?) snow falling during the introductions. What the heck is that stuff anyways?

Got to give a little to former DU boy Mark Rycroft. He looked pretty good out there with K-chuk. Lappy, I was going to ask you about him but I spaced it out. I didnít see him on the Icecats roster the last time I check and yet Iíve read that he had a really good camp. So I guess I got my answer. Looks like heís finally made the team for good.

I saw Worrell waking through the parking lot after the game. It didnít really look like he was limping or hurting too bad but I guess you canít always tell whether or not a guy is hurt just by watching him walk.

I think this game was a good reality check for the Avs. I guess everyone already knew this but it was a good reminder that this is not going to be a cake walk at all.

Iím going to bed. Nite!

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Old
10-13-2003, 05:37 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cazzy
Could anyone see from the TV, the part were Osgood deliberately pushed the net off of the pegs. Was it already partially off and he pushed it off the rest of the way to get it let the ref know that they needed to fix it? If not, it should have been a delay of game because he blatantly pushed it off during a very big scoring chance.
Nah, it was deliberate. The Avs were cycling the puck down low and Osgood wanted his boys to get a breather, so he tried not once, but thrice to knock the net off the moorings. The goalie cam totally proves it was deliberate.

Yes it should have been delay of game b/c no one but Osgood was around the crease. That's why I was really dissapointed with the officiating. Not only the Avs, but the Blues got a lot of bad no-calls and bad calls against them. I didn't like the Danton call where he pushed Hinote and got a roughing minor

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10-13-2003, 06:34 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cazzy
Did anyone else go to the game? If so did they have the snow machines working during the first game? I was sitting on the end on Friday and didnít notice the fake (?) snow falling during the introductions. What the heck is that stuff anyways?
They had the snow fall during the banner ceremony of the first game. In the old days fake snow was made from soap shavings. I wasn't at the game and have no idea what the stuff is that they use.

Granato had better pace these forwards, that's an unreasonable amount of ice time.

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10-13-2003, 06:35 AM
  #61
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http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/scoreboa...s/SC020032.HTM

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Old
10-13-2003, 06:42 AM
  #62
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Thoughts on the Game

I thought I would chip in my thoughts on last night's game:

1. Svatos suffered a shoulder injury in the game according to the Denver Post this morning and will be reevaluated today. This isn't particularly good news considering Svatos past shoulder problems.

2. I thought Granato made some questionable coaching decisions in last night's game. First, I was very surprised by his benching of Battaglia in favor of McCormick. Perhaps it was merely an attempt to get McCormick a taste of game action, but after Battaglia's game against Chicago it is surprising. Battaglia didn't stand out against Chicago, but he did immediately go after a Blackhawks' player after the player attempted a knee on knee hit on Svatos. That is usually the kind of maneuver that endears players to a Granato or Tochett type. I like Battaglia, I think he is a fine third line grinder, but you have to accept him for what he is. He will be haunted by the fact that the Avs overpaid to get him and gave up a promising young forward in Vrbata, but he can still be a valuable role player with the Avs. But if he is going to be a healthy scratch, it won't help his already sagging confidence. Perhaps he is like Brian Rolston, another player who never seemed to fit in with the Avs and is better suited for the Eastern Conference. I would rather see the Avs trade him than waste him as a potential asset.

Second, why is Granato playing Forsberg at the point on a 5 on 3 power play? That makes little sense to me, as Forsberg is often hesitant to shoot, and it allows the opposing team to play off of him down low, reducing the effectiveness of the 5 on 3 unit.

3. As others have pointed out, Foote made one of the worst decisions I've ever seen him make on the pinch that lead to Tkachuk's second goal. Adrian Dater in today's Denver Post seemed to blame the play on Nikolishin's pass which was deflected and lead to the odd man rush. But the fact is Niko made the pass in the offensive zone near the slot area, if you can't risk a pass in that area of the ice, then every pass is a low percentage play. The blame lies directly with Foote, who I think may have gotten carried away with his pinching, particularly with the personnel the Avs had on the ice in a four on four situation.

4. Aebischer looked strong, and he can't really be faulted on either Blues' goal. In the first two games, his positioning has been strong. Although he was kicking some juicy rebounds into the high slot area late in the game, and that bears watching over the long haul.

5. Skrastins has looked great the last couple of games, and IMO he looks like he will adequately replace Devo (assuming he can maintain such a high level of play over the course of the season).

6. I've been very impressed with Liles. He has trouble along the boards with larger forwards, but his positioning has been sound, and he has yet to make any glaring errors in the first couple of games.

7. Forsberg dove on probably all three penalties he drew, which I cringe at, but at this point in his career he is unlikely to stop. Overall, Forsberg looks a little out of synche, and he isn't at the level he played at toward the end of last season (yet).

8. Again as others have pointed out, Hinote was very quiet in this game, and it looked to me like he maybe playing with an injury. He just didn't have his usual energy. But I think it was hard for the third and fourth liners to get anything going with such limited ice time.

9. I thought Osgood played well, but not nearly to the level that he could be described as "stealing the game". The Blues collapsed down low and prevented the Avs from getting any rebounds. How many rebound shots do you remember the Avs getting last night? I could count on one hand the number of rebound shots. It is no coincidence that the Avs scored their lone goal on a rebound. The Avs will have to get their noses dirty and score some ugly goals at times this season to be successful, last night they were either unwilling or unable to do so.

10. I have to agree with most of the comments about the refs last night. I think thaty had a bad night with respect to both teams. I wasn't that familiar with the refs, I think they were a younger pair, and it seemed to me neither team had a great deal of respect for them.

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Old
10-13-2003, 09:11 AM
  #63
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"5. Skrastins has looked great the last couple of games, and IMO he looks like he will adequately replace Devo (assuming he can maintain such a high level of play over the course of the season)."

Yeah, he sure hasn't seemed like your typical "offensive talent devoid" stay at home defender. I've been impressed thus far with his decisions on when to join the play, and when to hold the puck instead of pass.

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10-13-2003, 09:55 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17
Second, why is Granato playing Forsberg at the point on a 5 on 3 power play? That makes little sense to me, as Forsberg is often hesitant to shoot, and it allows the opposing team to play off of him down low, reducing the effectiveness of the 5 on 3 unit.
Yeah I agree totally. On a team that stacked with amazing PP guys, why is the guy who himself said "I have the worst shot in the league" at the point? If they are going to use a forward on the point, then for the love of god use someone who has a hard shot...Blake, Selšnne, Kariya?

It's silly...of course he has amazing passing skills, but he can run the PP from the sides and behind the net and have those shooting guys in places. Also they need to learn how to use Selšnne on PP...he has a spot where he scores most of his goals from, and with that talented PP they are bound to get the pucks to that spot, and he will put them in with great percentage. In the first game I was wondering why he was used in the middle...he is not as effective there.

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Old
10-13-2003, 12:48 PM
  #65
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What I noticed in this game is basically the same as I noticed last year. The Avs are still top heavy and they still get lazy at home. Third line depth was killed when they started dealing off Reinprecht and the like and didn't get a good skilled grinder in return. I had hopes that Bates would step up and he was a scratch last nite. Svatos has skills but he might be fragile. Didn't get to see enough of McCormick to form an opinion last nite. Hahl worked hard and that was good to see. One question I had last nite was, if Cummins is there to "protect" the team, why wasn't he bustin Jackmans ass up for wallowing on Forsberg? Why wasn't he trying to pull Pronger into a fight after the Kariya thing? I can't wait to see what Worrell will do in a similar situation. Why is it a problem to have a couple of legit NHL calibre two way grinders? Why can't the Avs ever make a deal for a guy like a Ricci, Scatchard or Stevenson or someone like them who will bang, and work the opposing first line. Correct me if I'm wrong but we haven't had a legit third line since Podein and Yelle were shuttin em down. The rookies are nice but either Granato isn't using them enough or they aren't grinding it out long enough to mention. Just one good grinding two way forward and don't be afraid to move Hahl up if Battaglia isnt' going to cut the mustard, that's all I'm askin for. They can have all the talent in the world on the first two lines but those guys have got to take a rest once in awhile. To me the holes are the same as they were in the offseason as Belgian Fan and I talked about in the HF chat. Thirdline needs help and if Liles is going to be pushed around they need to find a solid number six to pair with Skoula and let John bulk up in Hershey. Big Mac wasn't bad but is he the answer in the playoffs or just when we have injuries?

Pk has been much better thus far in two games. However they have topliners playing it more this season than last. I'm cool with that, Crawford did it in 96 and it was a blast to watch.

The PP looks out of sync. Forsberg just wasted that 5 on 3, totally wasted it. He also wasted the other players talents that were on that PP. They should have been firing shot after shot until Stlouis cleared it. To me they don't utilize Selanne right he never was a factor on the PP last nite. He and Kariya should be a threat on every PP.

Even though I knew we wouldn't go 82-0 this season it was a disappointment to see the team look lazy at times. Morris still gets killed one on one. Skrastins is far better than originally billed, he's been solid in both games. It's good for them to lose in one respect and that's to see how they react to it. StLouis played a great road game and come out with the right result because of it.

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Old
10-13-2003, 01:20 PM
  #66
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I see pretty much the same stuff last year.....lots of buzzing around and sweet little passes.....and absolutely nobody in front of the net. I think they'll do better on the power play when they have Battaglia in the lineup. The defense looked pretty cool to me, I liked Liles, he seems to really be fitting into their system.

The cheap shot on Kariya was just that, a cheap shot. I hope Pronger gets suspended, there's no place in hockey for that.

I was really looking forward to seeing Niko, but he was absolutely invisable the entire night. Whatever, it's just one game anyway.

I'm shocked that the Avs didn't get 3-4 more goals because several times they had Osgood beaten but just couldn't slam it home. Both goaltenders were pretty good, eventhough Aebischer had some poor rebounds towards the end.

All in all, I think it was a pretty okay game. St Louis did a good job of just shutting down the Avs energy level towards the second period. Forsberg diving after Danton brushed him was the non-highlight of the night, all I could do was shake my head.....that's the worst dive I've seen in a very......very....long time. Hell of a way to start the season. Jebus.

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Old
10-13-2003, 02:56 PM
  #67
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Just to follow up on the Forsberg elbow a bit. I did watch the tape of it and I really can't tell if he was throwing an elbow. His left arm was up quite high, but I can't say it was a deliberate elbow from the backside replays (which is all FSRM ever showed). Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't; so, I'm moving on from it because I see no conclusive evidence either way.

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Old
10-13-2003, 03:12 PM
  #68
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Anyone impressed with the shot Skrastins put on Osgood. I'm referring to the one where he walked in, and fired it high, and actually hit Osgood on the head....just a super play. In another game, thats a goal.

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Old
10-13-2003, 03:49 PM
  #69
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Goulet17...

...I agree with you about Battaglia. We could've used him last night. He's one of our grinders, and I think he could've helped the offense last night. I can see letting McCormick see some NHL action, but you don't bench Battaglia for it. He looked good against CHI. Hopefully, that's the last time Granato lists him as a healthy scratch.

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10-13-2003, 04:03 PM
  #70
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With the injury to Svatos, you'll most likely see Battaglia in the lineup against Minnesota. I'm surprised he was benched, not so much because of his effectiveness (or lack thereof), but the fact that he was a "Granato boy." The Avs gave up a pretty good young sniper in Vrbata, if they aren't going to use him, than move him.

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